I'm not taking a jab here I'm actually asking this seriously. As a former HD-DVD supporter, are you now hoping that BD will fail or become nothing more than a niche format? If so, why?

Again, I'm only looking for genuine answers please.

I'm not taking a jab here I'm actually asking this seriously. As a former HD-DVD supporter, are you now hoping that BD will fail or become nothing more than a niche format? If so, why?

Again, I'm only looking for genuine answers please.

Nope, It's all we have now.

Sony ( I know its the BD group but Sony is A HUGE part of it) has a past record of micromanaging formats to death.

It scares the living bajesus out of me.

Especially since my PS3 purchase will coincide with FFXIII release, And I will want to be able to get movies on it. (see UMD)

Nope, It's all we have now.

Sony ( I know its the BD group but Sony is A HUGE part of it) has a past record of micromanaging formats to death.

It scares the living bajesus out of me.

Especially since my PS3 purchase will coincide with FFXIII release, And I will want to be able to get movies on it. (see UMD)
Exactly...still buying HD DVD's so it might be this fall before I go purple...(Then again when I go to Wal-mart for a replacement Dvd burner this morning, I might end up with one) ;)

I resent some of the tactics, I think they were shallow and were only used to play the media hype (like all successful hype) but no, I do not want BD to fail.

I don't think it will be as successful as DVD, not because downloads will come and wtfpwn it, but for why I personally think DVD sales are declining... there are just so many other forms of entertainment. As DVD was taking its baby steps it didn't have to compete with on demand, the proliferation of netflix and blockbuster online, satellite radio and whatever else people are doing these days. Now if 'as popular as DVD' is the metric for success, then yes Blu-Ray will be a failure. As the best form of purchasing and playing HD media with full studio support is the metric, then it's already a success and everything from here is gravy. The middle ground would be to outsell DVD for a quarter... the middle ground... which we will probably see in ____________ (enter a figure inflammatory enough for it's own thread here).

I hate that things are not smoother out the gate now that it's 'succeeded' and look forward to seeing things turn around and see the value meet the price (either by increasing the perceived value, or by decreasing the price... its much harder to do the former). Things like BD-Live as reported seem pushed out... hard not to imagine someone testing the functionality and saying 'well, that's good enough'.

Beyond all this, it's exponentially exacerbated by those bathing in the blu-kool-aid, smug and acting as if their stuff doesn't stink. It's good to be a homer, but take off the blinders from time to time and make a conversation out of it please. The HDDVD folks don't help sometimes either, that's for sure, but very few are innocent there :)

I'm purple, so no I don't want BD to fail, and like a previous poster stated "it's all we've got", but I still think the wrong format won from a consumer standpoint. I'll continue to buy both formats as long as the price is right but I will not pay more than $20 for any disc.

I have zero trust in Sony and if BD does break out of niche status it will be in spite them IMHO.

NightRyder

...are you now hoping that BD will fail or become nothing more than a niche format?No.
I hope it is a success even if that means this f*ck of a company called Sony having invented a successful format for a change.

Now, my biggest question is how many posts it will take for a bluboy to come back and claim this is not what I think...:)
Shouldn't take long.

Diogen.

i think that you have a small cadre that ase bitter about what happened but that the vast majority are somewhat relieved that the "war" is over. OF course on this forum it rages on.

I'm not taking a jab here I'm actually asking this seriously. As a former HD-DVD supporter, are you now hoping that BD will fail or become nothing more than a niche format? If so, why?

Again, I'm only looking for genuine answers please.Not hoping anything. But it will be a niche product for a long time just as HD itself now is.

I'm purple, so no I don't want BD to fail, and like a previous poster stated "it's all we've got", but I still think the wrong format won from a consumer standpoint. I'll continue to buy both formats as long as the price is right but I will not pay more than $20 for any disc.

I have zero trust in Sony and if BD does break out of niche status it will be in spite them IMHO.

NightRyder
ditto

I dont hope it fails as what would we be left with then?

I think most people were opposed to $ony and their practices and not BD anyway...

I am a supporter of downloads and I hope it takes off...I would love to see a subsription based business model on XBL but until then...BD is our friend.

I'm still red, and building a bargain library, but I hope for BR success. I'll be there when things settle a bit more and prices drop.

...Sony ( I know its the BD group but Sony is A HUGE part of it) has a past record of micromanaging formats to death.

It scares the living bajesus out of me. ....

Yep. Worries me too. I'm banking on the other members keeping Sony from snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'm still red, and building a bargain library, but I hope for BR success. I'll be there when things settle a bit more and prices drop.

+1

Well... My DVD Burner died in my Htpc... I bought a Sony as a replacement ... (12x DL and also supports DVD RAM) when I pulled the old drive that came bundled with the pc... it was a Toshiba...:eek: :D

I don't really care if it fails, I don't think it will though.

I personally will pick downloadable HD over blu-ray, so for me at least, blu-ray (and hd-dvd) are/were stop-gaps until I can have 1080p downloads.

Well... My DVD Burner died in my Htpc... I bought a Sony as a replacement ... (12x DL and also supports DVD RAM) when I pulled the old drive that came bundled with the pc... it was a Toshiba...:eek: :D

Never had good luck with Sony DVD burners.... I stick with Memorex or NEC (OEM from Newegg).

:)

LG, HP and Lite-ons only had 8x DL burning speed and didn't support DvdRam ... ;) I did see online yesterday a Pc BD read only drive for under$200 from Wal-Mart ... limited selection here, either Radio Shack or Wally World ;)

LG, HP and Lite-ons only had 8x DL burning speed and didn't support DvdRam ...Some LGs do.
Lite-On was making Sony DVDs (readers and writers) for a while. You could firmware patch them either way...

I like LGs. Since the times of the first CD readers - the quietest optical drives I ever had.

Diogen.

For all of you that think Downloads are the future in the next 10 years....What about the areas that don't even have broadband access. And I am not talking about the 2 or 3 people way out in the boonies that choose to live out there. I live in a pretty backwoods area of Illinois, but each of the towns at least have 2mb DSL service, expensive, but we have it. However, we are lucky because our telephone service is specializes in Rural service (Frontier). In the several counties just north of me, any broadband service is non-existent, not even in the towns. The phone service provided up there is Verizon, and they have pretty much said they will never provide Dsl service up there.

And forget about Cable services anywhere around here. The cable service in my town provides 36 channels of crystal clear analog service. And the other towns around have worse service than ours. BD and media you can buy at a store, watch, and store on a shelf for future use will be around for a LONG time folks. Downloads will come of age, but they will be the Niche market for at least another 20 years. By that time, There will be lots of other things that will catch my interests.

What about the areas that don't even have broadband access.What about Apple (iTunes) becoming the top music retailer in the US?
Apple confirms iTunes' spot as the top music retailer (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/03/apple-confirms-itunes-spot-as-the-top-music-retailer)

Diogen.

Don't really want BD to fail but really want BD player prices to fall. Prices for BD players are really crazy. I won't be switching until they become more reasonable >$250.

music is not movies. I can download a song in 10 seconds, however it would take me several hours to download an HD movie. Again, this may improve. Also, you must remember that music is cheaper on Itunes most of the time that at the stores, and the quality of the music is not as good. I didn't say movie downloads would never come around, just not anytime soon for many reasons. Quality, download time, DRM issues. Why would I want to buy a movie online for $20.00 when I would then have to spend additional money to store it? Be it additional hard drives, BR-Discs, whatever. Also I would be spending my time putting it on the discs if I chose that route.

Music is a lot easier as it take up relatively little space. A good quality HD movie is going to take up 30-50 GB per movie. 20 movies fills up a $200 1TB hard drive. Plus, who trusts hard drives for long term (5+ years) storage? I would have to spend 20 a piece on a BD disc to store it long term.

I can see all of this happening in the future sometime, but for now, most of the public does not even know how to make a music CD, please don't think the majority of consumers are going to want to learn how to do all this downloading and saving of HD movies. Given the choice, a vast majority of people are going to go buy a product at the store rather than going through all the steps and costs mentioned above. Its just not going to happen.


What about Apple (iTunes) becoming the top music retailer in the US?


While holding a 19% share is VERY good for any retailer, the article points out the next digital download music site Amazon at 6%. Thats 25%. Lets just say the other sites for purchasing digital music combined are at 5%. All together, thats 30% of music sales; 70% of music sales are still traditional. Which I admit, I thought it would be still higher than that. But again, thats Music, not movies.

music is not movies. I can download a song in 10 seconds, however it would take me several hours to download an HD movie.True. Maybe even longer.
But this isn't what this is all about.

Download has to catch on as a paradigm. And it takes somebody like Apple to accomplish that.
Microsoft can't do that - they would attach Windows in some form to it and everybody would be screaming.
Sony can't do that: "Here comes another stupid Sony format!".
Only Apple/S.Jobs, who's ideas are genious before they leave his head, with unrivaled loyalty can do that.

Now, half the job is done - downloads as a mean to get entertainment is here to stay.
Somebody has to bridge the music-movies gap - in terms of price and technology - and it's done.
It's not even neccessary they are all HD from the start. Just such option should be available.
As soon as this happens, BD will become the next LD, i.e. lose mind share, the glitz and glamor of something new.

Diogen.

No, I hope that disc based media sales survive. Portability is more important to me.

I hate the idea that the "villain" triumphed, in my opinion, and that my usability took a severe hit with the elimination of no region coding, combo media, and several interactivity capabilities that worked for every HD DVD player out of the box (none of this profile 1.0, 1.1,etc. crap).

That being said, I knew the patient was going to flatline when Warner flipped. I ordered my Samsung Duo player that day. An imperfect box, but the best bridge that I could buy that didn't take up two inputs on my receiver (I'm maxed out already - and I've got 6 video inputs .... The Duo Player, VCR, Satellite, Wii, Laserdisc (Yes, still use it occasionally), and my XBox360....)

I don't see any visual difference in the disc formats, and I don't have a TrueHD receiver, so that didn't do anything for me. I am using the 1080p HDMI output to my Sony Black Pearl Projector (in the words of the immortal Joe Walsh... "they make great TVs"), so the picture is topnotch on a 92" screen....

No, I hope that disc based media sales survive.They most probably will. Just like CDs have.
And DVDs might be the first casualty if/when video downloads take off.
But just like in music convenience trumpeted over quality (MP3 vs. SACD/DVD-A), there is no reason to suspect movies will have a different path...

Portability is more important to me.Ain't MP3 players the ultimate portable devices?

Diogen.

True. Maybe even longer.
But this isn't what this is all about.

Download has to catch on as a paradigm. And it takes somebody like Apple to accomplish that.
Microsoft can't do that - they would attach Windows in some form to it and everybody would be screaming.
Sony can't do that: "Here comes another stupid Sony format!".
Only Apple/S.Jobs, who's ideas are genious before they leave his head, with unrivaled loyalty can do that.

Now, half the job is done - downloads as a mean to get entertainment is here to stay.
Somebody has to bridge the music-movies gap - in terms of price and technology - and it's done.
It's not even neccessary they are all HD from the start. Just such option should be available.
As soon as this happens, BD will become the next LD, i.e. lose mind share, the glitz and glamor of something new.

Diogen.


where have you been?...XBL is the Leading Online Provider of High-Definition Content TODAY....and without windows....

and if you live in a major metro and can get reall broadband...HD movies start in mins. NOT hours to download due to streaming and buffering.

I can see the benifit of downloadable movies for rental purposes. But I would never buy a movie to keep via a download. I just don't see any benefit in it at all. And I am a major tech geek, but I do have common sense also.

where have you been?...XBL is the Leading Online Provider of High-Definition Content TODAY....
Thanks, I know. And watched a handful.
But if BD is 0.5% of the DVD market, XBL is probably 1% of the BD market. Or close.
Just a guess, haven't seen numbers.

It's a good start. But it's only 720p, no advanced audio, done with a 3 generation old encoder and takes less space than DVD9.
I believe it delivers at least 90% of BD's value, but is missing on "buzz". Microsoft can't create it.

I though if the rumors MS buying Netflix materialized into something, there would be hope for a business model...

Diogen.

I don't want BD to fail. However, they're not making it easy on themselves with their high prices and limited genre of teenage male oriented movies. Blu-Ray is working on the replication capacity issue which has been a problem since day one, despite many on the Blu side denying there were any constraints. The player prices don't just need to come down, they need to all be profile 2.0--period. It's ridiculous that to get a fully functional Blu-Ray player you are forced to buy a loud, ugly game console w/ a weird workaround for an IR remote or buy a buggy combo unit that may or may not be upgraded to profile 2.0 in the future.

I am also still buying red, but I do not want to see BD fail.

I don't wish ill on those who have BD, but I would like this chapter in history to end and become an lesson in the books about how not to pursue competition. As long as BD stays around, it hurts chances of coming up with a comprehensive and market-wide solution that is fully featured and fully formed out of the gate (much like HD-DVD was and I think BD may never reach).

We need a format that everyone agrees on and supports and one that is released with most everything conceivable in place. Some of the more exotic audio features don't need to be present in all players, but all fundamental features like PIP and interactivity should be part of the baseline so that software producers don't have to wonder about what percentage of the market can take advantage of their efforts.

Someone posted on this site a list of 5-6 different providers of movie downloads that ceased operations. Major names, too. Anyone have a link to that?

One was Wal-Mart. Maybe Movie Gallery was another one. Who else?

And the industry looks so bleak that HP discontinued HP Video Merchant Services.

1) I do not want BD to fail. I like HD movies and want to buy more. But I've also learned that they are not a quantum leap over upconverted DVDs like I once thought they were - they're only an incremental upgrade.

2) But I think BD will fail. It just "feels" like it's too elitist to get very far. I admit that that "feeling" comes mostly from posts I've read here and on some of the BD advocacy sites, so the elitist tendency that I sense may not continue on into the general population.

3) I think HDDVD was the better format for consumers and it failed. Therefore I don't hold out much hope for BD.

4) I will not buy BD until I'm convinced it won't fail, and prices drop. I am content enough with upconverted DVD for the moment, so I don't mind waiting a while for BD to prove itself before I put any more money into HD. At one time I thought HD was so much better, but over time I realized that it really isn't. Not for the money they want for it (goes for both BD and HDDVD). An incremental upgrade cannot command a significant price premium, as HD does now.

2) But I think BD will fail. It just "feels" like it's too elitist to get very far. I admit that that "feeling" comes mostly from posts I've read here and on some of the BD advocacy sites, so the elitist tendency that I sense may not continue on into the general population.

An incremental upgrade cannot command a significant price premium, as HD does now.

First of all, thanks to everyone for the replies. I think there's a lot of good insight in this thread.

Regarding haertig's post, these are some very interesting points. IMHO the thing that could hurt BD the most is not downloads or HD VOD but the incremental factor he mentioned.

They could ensure the success of this format tomorrow if they dropped the price so that it was only a $5 premium over DVD.

With new DVDs costing $16 at Best Buy and catalog titles going for less than $10, charging $25-40 for BluRay just isn't going to cut it.

They could ensure the success of this format tomorrow if they dropped the price so that it was only a $5 premium over DVD.

With new DVDs costing $16 at Best Buy and catalog titles going for less than $10, charging $25-40 for BluRay just isn't going to cut it.

IMO this would get a ton more people with PS3s who are on the fence/not interested to start buying into Blu-Ray. If this were the case, there would be no more fluke 30%+ HDDVD weeks due to poor BD sales. This will go away naturally as HDDVD disappears, but that's focusing on the wrong part of the problem.

They got to lower player prices. Most BD players(PS3) they quote that are in homes are in some kids room on a SDTV. They are just not that many standalone players out there.

Most BD players(PS3) they quote that are in homes are in some kids room on a SDTV.

How do you know this? Do you have a link to any surveys or marketing research or is this just an assumption?

I agree there aren't a lot of standalones and that needs to change, but it seems silly for a parent to buy an expensive next-gen console for an SD TV when 1) we are only now in the past few months beginning to see some good titles come out of the PS3 2) the PS2 is still being supported with new games 3) there are other gaming options including PC games and the 360.

A bigger issue is the gamers who bought a PS3 primarily for games, and spend their disposable income on $60 games rather than $30 BD titles.

...it seems silly for a parent to buy an expensive next-gen console for an SD TV.And it is.
But not as silly as assuming those parents actually know what SD/HD stands for...

Diogen.

I'm purple, so no I don't want BD to fail, and like a previous poster stated "it's all we've got", but I still think the wrong format won from a consumer standpoint. I'll continue to buy both formats as long as the price is right but I will not pay more than $20 for any disc.

I have zero trust in Sony and if BD does break out of niche status it will be in spite them IMHO.

NightRyder
Ditto. Well enough said that I would have been happy to have written that myself.

Fitzie

How do you know this? Do you have a link to any surveys or marketing research or is this just an assumption? Most homes don't even have HDTV. The PS3 was the next salvo in the console wars. How many times have you made an assumption here? We've all used JoeSP's crystal ball at one time or another.

No. I allways figured bd would win in the end due to its superior tech specs. Ive spent maybe $450-500 between my hd-dvd player and about 40 movies (not counting the $50 amazon gave me back). I expected hd-dvd to put up a bit more fight for longer, but I understand why they pulled out after the Warner announcement. Ill get a PS3 soon to round out my hi-def players.