From MLB.com...interesting article about what you will see on MLB Network. I guess I should say, what you won't see if you're on E*. Pay attention to the list of providers near the bottom of the article, and especially the last line. They claim this is the biggest cable/satellite debut of a new channel...and all without E*. Uuuuugggghhhhhh!

50 things to know about MLB Network

State-of-the-art studios set to host veteran personalities on Jan. 1

By Mark Newman / MLB.com
The MLB Network will set a cable television record on New Year's Day when it launches in about 50 million households, and it is all being created at a cost of about $50 million. So as the clock ticks down to the anticipated debut, here are 50 things to know about Major League Baseball's new 24/7/365 television home: They ran 300 miles of HD cable under the raised floors of the former MSNBC studio space in Secaucus, N.J., enough to reach from there to Pittsburgh, or to circle the bases at all 30 Major League ballparks 147 times. Viewers will marvel at the versatility, new concept and sheer expanse of the 15,200 combined square footage dedicated to Studio 3 and Studio 42.
MLB Network expects to broadcast about 1,400 live hours in its first year, and it will air 16 live World Baseball Classic games in March. After a one-hour introductory Hot Stove Show greets everyone at 6 p.m. ET on Jan. 1, the honor of first game to be shown goes to Don Larsen and his 1956 World Series perfect game for the Yankees. It will blow you away on New Year's Day.
That is not the official tagline, but, having taken a tour Wednesday of the studios and played catch with new MLB Network analyst and MLB.com talent Harold Reynolds on the half-scale diamond inside the facility's monstrous Studio 42, one can say it with utmost certainty.
Studio 42, named for Jackie Robinson, is about 10,000 square feet. Other talent -- including former Major League pitchers Al Leiter, Joe Magrane and Dan Plesac -- will join Reynolds in using the space for demo analysis. Let's say you're watching a Phillies-Rays World Series rematch and Cole Hamels picks off B.J. Upton at first, or Evan Longoria takes Hamels deep. The Network may have immediate analysis with Plesac or Magrane breaking down Hamels' move by throwing over to first on their field, or Leiter may throw at full speed with cameras capturing movement on the ball.
"We can put a live studio audience in here if we want," MLB Network CEO Tony Petitti said during the tour, showing the combined 173 seats of three mini-grandstand areas in the studio. "We can do taped or live interviews here. We can wheel a desk out here in the middle of the field for a show. We'll use this studio for a lot. With as much studio specialty work as we'll do, you need two places. This one has more baseball branding."
There are 45 feet between bases on the diamond, which is made of field turf, and the pitcher's mound is 30 feet from a home plate that can be moved back for more realistic demonstrations as needed. The out-of-town scoreboard over the makeshift home run wall in center is 25 feet in length. The scoreboard will be updated in real time. Video will be shown against portions of the brick facades at MLB Park, which represents the looks of ballparks like Camden Yards, Citizens Bank Park and Coors Field.
"We took it from a lot of sensibilities," Petitti said, when asked what ballpark influences went into the MLB Park construction. "It's kind of 'The old is new.'"
"To be able to have a studio like that and do demos is just incredible," Reynolds said. "[On Tuesday], I took grounders, I showed footwork, how to grip the ball, how to throw it across the diamond. Tony and I played catch there. Honestly, you come to work and your CEO is a former college baseball player who wants to play catch with you. We were just talking ideas while throwing it. That's what it's like here."
Studio 3 is named for Babe Ruth and it is a cross between Star Trek Enterprise and Times Square. There are lights and futuristic elements to look at everywhere. There are 62 video displays throughout Studio 3, all native HD. The largest single Sharp LCD video monitor there is 108 inches. The rear projection screen there is 210 square feet (30 feet by seven feet). There are 30 backlit logos ringing the ceiling, representing each of the 30 teams, and each is digital video.
Some of the coolest things about Studio 3 are the touch screen for talent (similar to that used by networks during the last presidential election voting updates) and real-time baseball cards. These are large vertical video boards with the visage of today's players, and the information under them is data-fed.
"The information kind of lives in the set," Petitti said. "We're going to be on the air that much, and we asked, 'How can it look fresh?' The idea was [to have] as much flexibility as possible and connect people to the feel of the game and be reactive every single day."
There are 1,200 combined light fixtures throughout the two studios. There will be 26 live regular-season games during the 2009 regular season, and that is in addition to MLB.TV (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/gift.jsp) and the capability of watching every live out-of-market game over your computer during the season. Being a fan gets better and better.
The first unquestioned "must-see TV" on the MLB Network will be at 2 p.m. ET on Jan. 12, when baseball fans can watch the 2009 Hall of Fame Induction Announcement. Rickey Henderson is a first-ballot lock, and Joe Gordon has already been granted posthumous inclusion via the Veterans Committee. Will there be more than those two inductees? You'll have to tune in to find out.
There are 25 rooms in the facility just to cut highlights. The Network is close to 165 employees after a hiring frenzy since midsummer. Matt Vasgersian will be studio host. Trenni Kusnierek (Brewers) and Hazel Mae (Red Sox) left club-specific regional networks to become the first reporters, and they were going through a rehearsal during Wednesday's tour.
"I think there's pressure for my job," Kusnierek said. "Hazel and I both came from regional sports networks. If you're in this sport, that's what you want. We've been here for weeks. It's not like you are covering hockey and you come in here and start. We talk baseball sitting in the office all week. It's going to feel like you're sitting with friends talking baseball. On the train home at night, we're talking baseball."
MLB Network will air "30 teams in 30 days" -- featuring special reports on all 30 clubs during Spring Training. Prime 9 will be a regular show focusing on top-nine lists of any baseball category whatsoever. Petitti said the Network will need to go through its cycle at the outset and then evaluate programming as it evolves, responding to what viewers like. He said it will take "six to eight years to digitize all of baseball's archives," as history is an important component. But only a part.
"We will be complementary to the way fans watch their local team," Petitti said. "If you watch the Red Sox or Yankees on your local network, for example, we provide the national perspective. Every game has ebbs and flows. We're always going to be there."
It will exceed any other cable TV launch by approximately 20 million homes. It will be distributed across 43 cable and satellite systems on expanded digital basic cable or the equivalent. It will be available on major systems, including Comcast, Cox, Direct TV, Time Warner, Charter, Cablevision and Verizon FiOS. As of Dec. 1, there were 43 multiple system operators carrying the MLB Network. "If you have digital cable," Petitti said, "you're going to get the Network."

Soon?:)

right...

Yawn

I could not care less about the MLB network.

I'm glad the spot will be open for other HD.

Is carriage of MLB network contingent upon carrying MLB EI?

I could not care less about the MLB network.

I'm glad the spot will be open for other HD.

Well thanks for letting us know!;)

Well thanks for letting us know!;)

Most E* subs will tell you the same. If you are an MLB fan, you are already somewhere else. Very few here care. But thanks for letting E* subs know how happy you are.

Most E* subs will tell you the same. If you are an MLB fan, you are already somewhere else. Very few here care. But thanks for letting E* subs know how happy you are.

You guys are a real pleasant bunch. Does it really bother you that much that there are topics brought up on this forum that you don't care about? Sorry for discussing a topic in a thread that you didn't have to look at.

If you are an MLB fan, you are already somewhere else.
Wrong.

You guys are a real pleasant bunch. Does it really bother you that much that there are topics brought up on this forum that you don't care about? Sorry for discussing a topic in a thread that you didn't have to look at.

Just another Direct Troll trying to stir some sh**.
Who cares

I LOVE my Dish Network...except for the fact that they dont carry MLB EI, and now the MLB Network. Directv was too pricey for me, God I just wish I could watch my Reds in HD every game

Most E* subs will tell you the same. If you are an MLB fan, you are already somewhere else. Very few here care. But thanks for letting E* subs know how happy you are.

How untrue! I'm a huge MLB fan, but DirecTV is too expensive and their DVRs are awful. I get my team (St. Louis Cardinals) via an RSN channel (in HD) so I'm satisfied, but I desperately wish I could get MLB EI.

I just got dish, and love it. Had DTV, and that was good also, but liked E* prices better.
I would like to see the MLB network added also, but I can wait it out.

I get to watch my "sigh" Astros whenever they are on... but I don't watch every game. Even if the Astros were to play a game on MLB Network, doubtful, I really wouldn't miss it. My Cowboys on the other hand on NFL Network, I have to have it. Don't really care much about MLB Network. Missing an Astros game, for me, is nowhere near like missing a Cowboys game. If we end up getting MLB Network, cool...if we don't, don't really care.

I wish we were getting this channel. :(

Most E* subs will tell you the same. If you are an MLB fan, you are already somewhere else. Very few here care. But thanks for letting E* subs know how happy you are.

Exactly my point. Dish can't be everything to everyone. If sports is your thing, go the DirecTV. If top quality DVRs and premium movie channels are your thing, go to Dish. If all that is important, decide what's more importation. I, for one, am happy Dish doesn't blow so much space on sports. I just wish they would make use if it elsewhere for other programming.

Too many people on here think the channels they want to watch are the most importaint, while others are a waste of bandwidth. That's fine, just don't be upset when their are some that think your favorite channel is a waste of bandwidth.

I don't know, this sure seemed like a big trolling thread to me.

Of course it was a trolling thread... but why on Earth do my fellow E* subscribers have to feed the troll? :cool: Be cool... it's just a content provider.

Thanks for letting me know. Unfortunately watching grass grow is more exciting than baseball.

I'm an E* subscriber who loves baseball and football. I watch my Giants and my Mets, which I can get with E*. I play fantasy baseball and football, but I don't NEED to watch the out of market games live, especially for $500 a year combined.

It's actually a point of pride with me that they don't carry YES in NYC. Steinbrenner doesn't get a dime from this Mets fan.

I would like to see the MLB channel added however.

The STBs are so horrible at D* though, that I couldn't make the switch for that alone..... I channel surf at light speed sometimes, and the E* boxes are the only ones I've seen that can keep up with me... I've played with others at friend's houses and was underwhelmed...

I don't know, this sure seemed like a big trolling thread to me.

Hahaha...that's good. I started this thread because I would like to see MLB Network on E*. I live in an MDU that has an exclusive agreement with Dish. I don't have the option to go to Direct, and don't desire to. My only other option is digital cable which is way too expensive for what you get. I'm just participating in the forum on topics that I'm concerned about. Not everything is a big conspiracy on here regarding topics...there are actually people on here who care about MLB Network...maybe not most or even close to it. But there are those out there. I totally understand the people who would rather have the space used for something else...I just don't understand why people who may disagree with that have to be ridiculed.

I wish we were getting this channel. :(


Is it absolutely certain THE MLB channel won't be on Dish?

Dish doesn't offer the NFL package but has the NFL network.

I would say about 85 percent could care less

I would say about 85 percent could care less
What percent couldn't care less?

I would say about 85 percent could care less

Wow. Pretty precise guess there.

But I, for one, am one of those torn between loving sports and loving movies/other entertainment. I also love HD. So I struggled with the decision, but gave up a great deal of sports and went with Turbo from Dish, knowing that I would be missing out on a lot of NFL, except I do get the NFL network. But with the ESPN and NBA packages, I am pretty satisfied with my sports choices. We also get our regional sports where I live in HD, so that works out well. I am not into NASCAR (although, it is unclear whether that sport will make it through next year, given the big 3's troubles), but I would be interested in an MLB channel. Definitely not a deal breaker, but I suppose I am part of the 15% who would at least care.

I find it funny that the channel will be a reflection of what they do at mlb.com; watch it on your pc if you don't get the channel!

I find it funny that the channel will be a reflection of what they do at mlb.com; watch it on your pc if you don't get the channel!

Well, I think we will do that. But I don't think it's crazy to prefer to see it in HD on TV rather than a streamed picture over the internet. The same could be said for CNN and many other channels...it's the same thing you can find on the internet, yet we still get the option to watch it on TV.

Everyone who said he wanted MLB EI but don't want to go to D* or cable because they are too expensive:

You have just missed the whole point. The reason E* can keep a lower price is in part because E* refuses to pay artificially high costs to get those sports packs.

Get it? Can't have it both ways.

Everyone who said he wanted MLB EI but don't want to go to D* or cable because they are too expensive:

You have just missed the whole point. The reason E* can keep a lower price is in part because E* refuses to pay artificially high costs to get those sports packs.

Get it? Can't have it both ways.


Cable...yes, more expensive. Direct, last time I checked, price difference was minimal. Look, the point of this is over 50 million households are going to have this channel on January 1st. If you read the article, you can see the long list of providers who will be carrying MLB. It's just a pattern with Dish to be slow or non-existent on the addition of channels because they're "keeping the price low". It's amazing how the other guys seem to do it, yet Dish can't. How about all the locals that Dish has dropped...no HD Fox Networks, no MLB Network/EI just to name a few. That's what is frustrating.

I've got NESN. Not sure why I'd want to watch games between other teams, lol. This would be a good channel to have as a sports fan, but it doesn't really bring anything to the table that I need or can't find elsewhere.

Everyone who said he wanted MLB EI but don't want to go to D* or cable because they are too expensive:

You have just missed the whole point. The reason E* can keep a lower price is in part because E* refuses to pay artificially high costs to get those sports packs.

Get it? Can't have it both ways.

Have you seen what has happened (http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/158482-december-18th-dish-retailer-chat-recap.html)? So much for the lower price; and as I was arguing in that conversation, it looks as though the price increases may happen *before* any new programming shows up! Dish seems to certainly be having it "both ways."

Everyone who said he wanted MLB EI but don't want to go to D* or cable because they are too expensive:

You have just missed the whole point. The reason E* can keep a lower price is in part because E* refuses to pay artificially high costs to get those sports packs.

Get it? Can't have it both ways.
Comparable packages between D and E are pretty much the same price. Depending on your particular setup, one provider may be less expensive. For me, I have posted several times on this forum, D is less expensive.

Besides, the sports packages are a separate priced option that has little effect, if any, on the price of the basic packages. Then again, if constantly dropping channels without notice and spending more time in court than any other company I have seen means keeping the price of a comparable package down by a couple of bucks, I would rather pay a little more for the greater variety of options and the much greater security in knowing that my favorite channel will still be on the air when I wake up the next morning.

Comparable packages between D and E are pretty much the same price. Depending on your particular setup, one provider may be less expensive. For me, I have posted several times on this forum, D is less expensive.

Besides, the sports packages are a separate priced option that has little effect, if any, on the price of the basic packages. Then again, if constantly dropping channels without notice and spending more time in court than any other company I have seen means keeping the price of a comparable package down by a couple of bucks, I would rather pay a little more for the greater variety of options and the much greater security in knowing that my favorite channel will still be on the air when I wake up the next morning.

That is why you are a D* sub not E* sub. You just proved my point, those who really want the sports packages should be on the other side already.

I was talking to those who wanted the LMB EI but said they liked the lower E* price.

Have you seen what has happened (http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/158482-december-18th-dish-retailer-chat-recap.html)? So much for the lower price; and as I was arguing in that conversation, it looks as though the price increases may happen *before* any new programming shows up! Dish seems to certainly be having it "both ways."

As long as it still is cheaper than the other guy.

If there are enough people who do not care for some specialty packs and are willing to stick with E* to save a few bucks, there is the reason not to worry about it.

That is why you are a D* sub not E* sub. You just proved my point, those who really want the sports packages should be on the other side already.

I was talking to those who wanted the LMB EI but said they liked the lower E* price.


Excuse my ignorance on this, as I have no knowledge on these issues. But if MLB EI is an extra subscription that you pay a substantial amount more for to receive, how is it an extra cost to Dish?

Excuse my ignorance on this, as I have no knowledge on these issues. But if MLB EI is an extra subscription that you pay a substantial amount more for to receive, how is it an extra cost to Dish?

No one has exact figures, but here is what many have said.

The sports packs are so expensive, they charge EVERYONE a few bucks extra to subsidize the package. If they simply divided the cost of the pack by the number of subs, it would probably be so expensive that it wouldn't attract many subs. But add 5 bucks a month to 17 million subs, and DirecTV can make it all work.

But again, that is just internet speculation.

The STBs are so horrible at D* though, that I couldn't make the switch for that alone
This is the only thing holding me back at this point. I just went through and priced out a comparable D* package to what I already have with E* and the pricing is almost identical, but I like my 622 too much to pull the trigger on a switch. If we get to opening day and E* still doesn't have MLB Network, that will probably be enough to push me over the edge.

That is why you are a D* sub not E* sub. You just proved my point, those who really want the sports packages should be on the other side already.

I was talking to those who wanted the LMB EI but said they liked the lower E* price.
I somewhat agree with you on this point. I was not disputing that. I was disputing the argument that the Dish packages are a lot less expensive than the Direct comparable Direct packages (Although the Turbo HD is a good price, but Direct does not have a comparable package to that).

This is the only thing holding me back at this point. I just went through and priced out a comparable D* package to what I already have with E* and the pricing is almost identical, but I like my 622 too much to pull the trigger on a switch. If we get to opening day and E* still doesn't have MLB Network, that will probably be enough to push me over the edge.
Don't let it. As I have argued many times, most of those that complain about DirecTV's DVRs or receivers are ones that have never used one to begin with. For some reason this rumor starts about how bad they are, then everyone keeps repeating the same lies over and over. Dish's DVRs are better from what I have read and researched, but Direct's are not that bad.

In fact I much prefer my HR20 over my TiVO.

Excuse my ignorance on this, as I have no knowledge on these issues. But if MLB EI is an extra subscription that you pay a substantial amount more for to receive, how is it an extra cost to Dish?

I don't know about MLB EI, but D* loses money on its exclusive NFL ST package, the cost is passed on to the general D* subs. It is the business model each adopts that resulted in one company accepting higher programming cost, the other refused to budge, rather did without it.

but D* loses money on its exclusive NFL ST package, the cost is passed on to the general D* subs. . If they are losing money thats their own fault. Some how though I really doubt D* is dumb enough to provide you with a service with a negative profit. D* might be nice but they aren't the RED CROSS. I would bet any and everything D* ST has made they a Huge profit since they have started this option. If they didn't it would have been dropped like Nascar Hot pass

Don't let it. As I have argued many times, most of those that complain about DirecTV's DVRs or receivers are ones that have never used one to begin with. For some reason this rumor starts about how bad they are, then everyone keeps repeating the same lies over and over. Dish's DVRs are better from what I have read and researched, but Direct's are not that bad.

In fact I much prefer my HR20 over my TiVO.
This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but can the HR20 output HDMI and component simultaneously?

This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but can the HR20 output HDMI and component simultaneously?

Why would you want to?

This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but can the HR20 output HDMI and component simultaneously?

Yes, all video and audio outputs are active simultaneously.

Why would you want to?
I currently have an E* 622, which outputs HDMI to my main TV in the family room and component to my LCD in the bedroom. This allows me to get HD on both TV's through one receiver, while sharing DVR programming. If I want to watch something different on the bedroom TV, I switch over to the RF input which uses Tuner 2, but I don't know whether that would be an option with the HR20.

I currently have an E* 622, which outputs HDMI to my main TV in the family room and component to my LCD in the bedroom. This allows me to get HD on both TV's through one receiver, while sharing DVR programming. If I want to watch something different on the bedroom TV, I switch over to the RF input which uses Tuner 2, but I don't know whether that would be an option with the HR20.
Ahh...

Everyone who said he wanted MLB EI but don't want to go to D* or cable because they are too expensive:

You have just missed the whole point. The reason E* can keep a lower price is in part because E* refuses to pay artificially high costs to get those sports packs.

Get it? Can't have it both ways.


In regards to Directv being to expensive, with the new price increase, I know D's has not come out yet. They may be in the same ball park, I believe

In regards to Directv being to expensive, with the new price increase, I know D's has not come out yet. They may be in the same ball park, I believe
Comparable packages are pretty much the same. The only way one really saves a lot with Dish is with the Turbo HD.

The only way one really saves a lot with Dish is with the Turbo HD. Even then I'm not convinced its a lot of savings. Unless you only need 1 room.:)

If they are losing money thats their own fault. Some how though I really doubt D* is dumb enough to provide you with a service with a negative profit. D* might be nice but they aren't the RED CROSS. I would bet any and everything D* ST has made they a Huge profit since they have started this option. If they didn't it would have been dropped like Nascar Hot pass

The D* NFL ST had been known to be a loss leader.

I currently have an E* 622, which outputs HDMI to my main TV in the family room and component to my LCD in the bedroom. This allows me to get HD on both TV's through one receiver, while sharing DVR programming. If I want to watch something different on the bedroom TV, I switch over to the RF input which uses Tuner 2, but I don't know whether that would be an option with the HR20.

Two of my HR21s are hooked up this way, with component cables supporting two older model HD projector and LCD set, then their HDMI connections are run 35' and 65' over to support two other HD sets remotely.

Comparable packages are pretty much the same. The only way one really saves a lot with Dish is with the Turbo HD.

I have speculated the lack of new E* HD addition had to do with the low TurboHD price and the wait for the new satellite. The new HDs cost money to be added on, but after the $10 price hike in Feb 09, the new HDs will be justifiable.

Since by then the TurboHDs will still be much lower in price, yet the new additions will likely make them real alternatives for those who do not want SDs, it will be a very attractive offer.

If I understand correctly the HD receiver fee will be down from $7 to $5 in Feb, if E* then removes the 4-tuner lease limitation, and try to match the D* one-DVR fee-per-account, that will be a real threat on the HD front.

The D* NFL ST had been known to be a loss leader.
On its own MAYBE. When you take into account the number of subs that joined because they had it , and the base packages and other add ons that they purchase, I would bet that they make money because of it

On its own MAYBE. When you take into account the number of subs that joined because they had it , and the base packages and other add ons that they purchase, I would bet that they make money because of it

Exactly what a "loss leader" means. I was responding to Hemi's notion that the ST must be a profitable pack on its own otherwise D* would be a fool to have it.

Exactly what a "loss leader" means. I was responding to Hemi's notion that the ST must be a profitable pack on its own otherwise D* would be a fool to have it.
I still think its a maybe. I am not sure what it cost to D*, and how many sub to it. I wouldnt be suprised on its on though

I still think its a maybe. I am not sure what it cost to D*, and how many sub to it. I wouldnt be suprised on its on though



i can tell you this,if the price stays the same or goes up i might reconsider and not renew next year. i love the ST w SF but it's really pricey!

i can tell you this,if the price stays the same or goes up i might reconsider and not renew next year. i love the ST w SF but it's really pricey!
If I cant get the same deal I know I wont renew. No way I would pay full price, I simply dont watch enough pro ball (even though it was very very nice). If they would do gameplan the same way as ST I would sign up in a heartbeat though

If I cant get the same deal I know I wont renew. No way I would pay full price, I simply dont watch enough pro ball (even though it was very very nice). If they would do gameplan the same way as ST I would sign up in a heartbeat though


good point. i would too.

I still think its a maybe. I am not sure what it cost to D*, and how many sub to it. I wouldnt be suprised on its on though

Back in 2004 D* was paying NFL $400 million a year, it was said D* had 1.4 million NFL ST subs back then, how much was the average subscription back then, $200? Then consider the first time buyers' free deals.

The D*'s lastest payment was much higher, over $700 million last I heard, in order to keep it as an exclusive deal. Assume some sub and fee increases they may still be in the red.

Back in 2004 D* was paying NFL $400 million a year, it was said D* had 1.4 million NFL ST subs back then, how much was the average subscription back then, $200? Then consider the first time buyers' free deals.

The D*'s lastest payment was much higher, over $700 million last I heard, in order to keep it as an exclusive deal. Assume some sub and fee increases they may still be in the red. Do you have any proof of these numbers? Because No way is a company going to invest in something thats a multi million dollar loss just to keep its customers happy. And No way is D* going to sign a multi year contract with NFL to take a loss. They might as well drop 1.4 Million customers that pay $200 for NFL ticket and a $60 per month Programming commitment . That would only cost D* $365,000,000 instead of $400,000,000. Clearly by your numbers D* $35,000,000 loss per year to carry NFL ST,vs if they didn't carry it and lose 1.4 million customers. If this is the case then all the subs would be paying much less and maybe then D* could afford to put more then 3 Cinemax channels for $12 per month.

Do you have any proof of these numbers? Because No way is a company going to invest in something thats a multi million dollar loss just to keep its customers happy. And No way is D* going to sign a multi year contract with NFL to take a loss. They might as well drop 1.4 Million customers that pay $200 for NFL ticket and a $60 per month Programming commitment . That would only cost D* $365,000,000 instead of $400,000,000. Clearly by your numbers D* $35,000,000 loss per year to carry NFL ST,vs if they didn't carry it and lose 1.4 million customers. If this is the case then all the subs would be paying much less and maybe then D* could afford to put more then 3 Cinemax channels for $12 per month.

D* still picks up the base customer programming fees (which by my guess would be more than $60 if one is buying ST) and whatever else they might buy (superfan?). Thats why I say that they are making money on it, if not directly, indirectly. Also, no telling how many signed up for it, didnt renew, but still kept D* because of whatever reason. I dont see it as a lose situation, and the math could be too skewed depening on too many factors. Suffice it to say, IMHO, D* wouldnt have it if overall it were costing them. Thats terrible business sense.

D*'s current average per sub is about $84/mo. I think.

Let's not forget the ATT deal with E* was a loss leader for E* too, now E* has dropped it, D* is only too happy to pick it up.

Sometimes it is not all about profitability for each deal, but the overall picture. Having a larger sub base can get you lower programming rates, adding net new subs each quarter also keeps up with your stock value and makes your investors happy...

D*'s current average per sub is about $84/mo. I think.

Let's not forget the ATT deal with E* was a loss leader for E* too, now E* has dropped it, D* is only too happy to pick it up.

Sometimes it is not all about profitability for each deal, but the overall picture. Having a larger sub base can get you lower programming rates, adding net new subs each quarter also keeps up with your stock value and makes your investors happy...
This is basically my whole point. It may have lost money by itself (even though I would guess that MOST ST subs were premier subs, so more per month subs at the base package level), it made money when you take into account everything else that it did to affect the D* bottom line. When all of those many factors come into play, over the years, D* made money on ST, otherwise why carry it?

Edit: Didnt at&t drop E*? not the other way around

Edit: Didn't at&t drop E*? not the other way around

correct! :)

Personally I don't think one approach is better than the other from pure business standpoint.

E* is apparently trying to stay away from any loss leaders these days, including hard negotiations and dropping channels if the cost is too high, even if it means some sub loss, as long as profitability is up there.

D* will pay a premium to have it all, the result is of course the continued sub increase and profitability too.

I for one can't wait for the MLB Channel. Hell, I think I will have it tuned in for the launch. Anyone from the E* side can rail on the OP all they want, how you saw it as trolling I have no idea, oh, one of them was Juan, that explains a whole lot! I think that what they are going to be d0oing on this will be groundbreaking, I don't get the complaints about why someone wouldn't want it. Even if you don't watch any baseball, would it be a negative? Don't think that the use of the bandwith is an issue, heck, there is about 200 channels they could all get rid of to solve that problem. So just to let you know, us baseball guys, we want it, if you claim to be a baseball guy and say you don't, sorry, your full of it. Still want to hear how you are better off without it.

Personally I don't think one approach is better than the other from pure business standpoint.

E* is apparently trying to stay away from any loss leaders these days, including hard negotiations and dropping channels if the cost is too high, even if it means some sub loss, as long as profitability is up there.

D* will pay a premium to have it all, the result is of course the continued sub increase and profitability too.
The problem I see with the E* idea is there are only so many years you can do things that way and lose customers before the profit erodes. Its good to "negotiate" for the best deal if it is truly in the best interests of your customers, but personally, I havent seen the savings. The only thing MOST customers see is something isnt offered for whatever reason, or the channel I had yesterday isnt there today. That will leave a bitter taste in their mouths.

Hasnt caught up with them yet, but looking at sub numbers, its starting to go in that direction unless something changes in the way its managed.

The problem I see with the E* idea is there are only so many years you can do things that way and lose customers before the profit erodes. Its good to "negotiate" for the best deal if it is truly in the best interests of your customers, but personally, I havent seen the savings. The only thing MOST customers see is something isnt offered for whatever reason, or the channel I had yesterday isnt there today. That will leave a bitter taste in their mouths.

Hasnt caught up with them yet, but looking at sub numbers, its starting to go in that direction unless something changes in the way its managed.


you've been with D a lot longer than i have. let me ask you this, has D ever pulled any locals or other channels due to contract negotiations? In my 10 years with E i saw this about 6 times that I noticed. Did you see the price increase E is handing out by FEB.? they claim to be saving you$$$ with these tough negotiations yet prices go up every year.I don't think D will raise their prices as much as E is going to in 09. Do you?

My input. Right now I think D*'s said they're dropping a channel in the Norfolk DMA on 1/1. Don't know if it's due to a pricing issue or technical, like maybe D* won't be able to receive their ATSC channel after the February cutover at their LRF.

From time to time they have removed a national channel, but usually it's a channel that has low viewership and usally ends up shutting down eventually anyway, Trio comes to mind as one of those.

Did you see the price increase E is handing out by FEB.? they claim to be saving you$$$ with these tough negotiations yet prices go up every year.I don't think D will raise their prices as much as E is going to in 09. Do you?

Rey

If I remember correctly Directv normally raises their prices around $3 every year. The big part that Dish is having issues with their pricing is the HD only packages. I figured it was only time before the prices began to raise like they are. Once they add more HD the pricing will need to keep going up to keep it profitable for them.

My input. Right now I think D*'s said they're dropping a channel in the Norfolk DMA on 1/1. Don't know if it's due to a pricing issue or technical, like maybe D* won't be able to receive their ATSC channel after the February cutover at their LRF.

From time to time they have removed a national channel, but usually it's a channel that has low viewership and usally ends up shutting down eventually anyway, Trio comes to mind as one of those.


Rey

If I remember correctly Directv normally raises their prices around $3 every year. The big part that Dish is having issues with their pricing is the HD only packages. I figured it was only time before the prices began to raise like they are. Once they add more HD the pricing will need to keep going up to keep it profitable for them.

thanks guys :up

My input. Right now I think D*'s said they're dropping a channel in the Norfolk DMA on 1/1. Don't know if it's due to a pricing issue or technical, like maybe D* won't be able to receive their ATSC channel after the February cutover at their LRF.

From time to time they have removed a national channel, but usually it's a channel that has low viewership and usally ends up shutting down eventually anyway, Trio comes to mind as one of those.
And unlike Dish, they give their subs warning ahead of time.

The problem I see with the E* idea is there are only so many years you can do things that way and lose customers before the profit erodes. Its good to "negotiate" for the best deal if it is truly in the best interests of your customers, but personally, I havent seen the savings. The only thing MOST customers see is something isnt offered for whatever reason, or the channel I had yesterday isnt there today. That will leave a bitter taste in their mouths.

Hasnt caught up with them yet, but looking at sub numbers, its starting to go in that direction unless something changes in the way its managed.

I don't see losing 10,000 subs a quarter out of 13.7 million as a threat at all. I do agree that the subs must see real cost saving as a result of hard bargain and ditching loss leaders.

I don't see losing 10,000 subs a quarter out of 13.7 million as a threat at all. I do agree that the subs must see real cost saving as a result of hard bargain and ditching loss leaders.
You dont? I guess we just see it differently then. I see a loss of that many a a major setback if it continues. How many quarters can they continue to bleed subs (perhaps at an even faster rate) before it becomes a problem? There is a break even point somewhere. Perhaps it will serve as a wake up call though.

You dont? I guess we just see it differently then. I see a loss of that many a a major setback if it continues. How many quarters can they continue to bleed subs (perhaps at an even faster rate) before it becomes a problem? There is a break even point somewhere. Perhaps it will serve as a wake up call though.

Have you seen any threat to Tivo when they will have lost about 50% of their subs by 2010 compared to 2007? Last I read you are more than happy to take a close look at the new TiVo box next year, you know by the time TiVo will actually have only about half of the subs compared to 2007?:)

Have you seen any threat to Tivo when they will have lost about 50% of their subs by 2010 compared to 2007? Last I read you are more than happy to take a close look at the new TiVo box next year, you know by the time TiVo will actually have only about half of the subs compared to 2007?:)

Dont misunderstand my comment in another thread. I will be more than happy to look at ANY box that D* might offer. Who knows, it might be better than what I have now. If that is the case, I might get one or two. It really doesnt have anything to do with the Tivo name though. I could care less about that.

I dont want to turn this into a tivo thread, but if they actually lost that many subs then yes I do see it as a threat to that company even if upper managment or other posters dont. Bottom line, as I see it anyway, less subs (customers) is less income. If prices dont increase to offset that, you make less money than you did last year. If you increase prices to the point where the continual loss of subs doesnt hurt the bottom line this year, you price yourself out for some subs the next year, and so on and so forth until it doesnt work anymore. A company simply cant continue to lose customers long term (not saying they will)

...It really doesnt have anything to do with the Tivo name though. I could care less about that...

Of course it has a lot to do with the health of TiVo, if you know a company will be out of the business in a year, will you still consider putting down $200 to $500 to get a product that must depend on that company for support?

Not saying TiVo will be out in two years, just pointing out there is a lot of bias in your view of one company v. the other. TiVo has been losing subs in much greater proportion and at much faster pace it would take E* to lose about 500k subs per quarter for three straight years to match.

:cool:Ok..first post on this site after reading alot of them....and though there are alot of interesting people and ideas here......There are many of you that need to get a life. Life should be about postive things..not negative...

:cool:Ok..first post on this site after reading alot of them....and though there are alot of interesting people and ideas here......There are many of you that need to get a life. Life should be about postive things..not negative...

Was that a positive post?

Anyways, back to the MLB Network, I would love to have the channel even if it were only in SD!

Well thanks for letting us know!;)This is a GOOD post! Don't let the real trolls tell you any different! This is something that should be discussed! Most E* subs get so defensive!?

I dont want to turn this into a tivo thread, but if they actually lost that many subs then yes I do see it as a threat to that company even if upper managment or other posters dont. Bottom line, as I see it anyway, less subs (customers) is less income. If prices dont increase to offset that, you make less money than you did last year. If you increase prices to the point where the continual loss of subs doesnt hurt the bottom line this year, you price yourself out for some subs the next year, and so on and so forth until it doesnt work anymore. A company simply cant continue to lose customers long term (not saying they will)



Not saying TiVo will be out in two years, just pointing out there is a lot of bias in your view of one company v. the other. TiVo has been losing subs in much greater proportion and at much faster pace it would take E* to lose about 500k subs per quarter for three straight years to match.
With all due respect my view of both companies is exactly the same in this regard. My posts have the same tone whether its Tivo or E* when it comes to talking about sub loss, as shown above. I am not saying E* will fail, anymore than I am saying Tivo will, but sub loss is sub loss, and if it continues for E* without a change, it will eventually eat into the profit margin, same for Tivo.

Edit: The part I put in bold above was a reference to Tivo, I dont know if that was clear, and may be where the confusion comes from

:cool:Ok..first post on this site after reading alot of them....and though there are alot of interesting people and ideas here......There are many of you that need to get a life. Life should be about postive things..not negative...

Welcome to sat guys:up, however this wasnt the best way to introduce yourself IMHO.

:cool:Ok..first post on this site after reading alot of them....and though there are alot of interesting people and ideas here......There are many of you that need to get a life. Life should be about postive things..not negative...
Like those of us who spend time reading a lot of posts. ;)

http://dynamic.tivo.com/resources/images/downloads/my_tivo_logo_ref_lrg.jpg

...but sub loss is sub loss, and if it continues for E* without a change, it will eventually eat into the profit margin, same for Tivo...

This is also not true, part of the reasons why TiVo became profitable was because they stopped subsidizing new subs, and as a result lost subs, but in turn begin to show profit.

The same can be true for E* and D* only in a lessor degree. If both E* and D* today stop signing up new subs, they will each lose on an average 750k subs per quarter, but their profitability will shoot straight up by about $500 million on a quarterly basis for many quarters, because they lose about $700 on each new sub now.

I am only talking about profitability of course, not sub loss and its long turn impact.

Don't let it. As I have argued many times, most of those that complain about DirecTV's DVRs or receivers are ones that have never used one to begin with. For some reason this rumor starts about how bad they are, then everyone keeps repeating the same lies over and over. Dish's DVRs are better from what I have read and researched, but Direct's are not that bad.

In fact I much prefer my HR20 over my TiVO.


Exactly. Ive had a 622/722/HR20 and now HR22. The people that yapp on about D*'s equipment being so bad are either full of **** or just stirring the pot.

The Dish apologists on this site can say what they want, but Dish network sucks and its reinforced by this crappy HD picture Im looking at while being at my inlaws for the holidays. I have no regret over going back to D*. I think many others feel the same way since Dish's total sub count is going in reverse.

Dish Network is like the dollar tree of retail.

Exactly. Ive had a 622/722/HR20 and now HR22. The people that yapp on about D*'s equipment being so bad are either full of **** or just stirring the pot.

The Dish apologists on this site can say what they want, but Dish network sucks and its reinforced by this crappy HD picture Im looking at while being at my inlaws for the holidays. I have no regret over going back to D*. I think many others feel the same way since Dish's total sub count is going in reverse.

Dish Network is like the dollar tree of retail.

You do realize what you have just said had made you entirely unqualified to judge which DVR is better?:) Maybe which one's HD lineup and PQ is better but not the equipment.

Rey

If I remember correctly Directv normally raises their prices around $3 every year. The big part that Dish is having issues with their pricing is the HD only packages. I figured it was only time before the prices began to raise like they are. Once they add more HD the pricing will need to keep going up to keep it profitable for them.Yes and I've paid $69.99 for Top 250 DVR atvantage + HD for the last 19 months. It must of been about 2 years since E* raised the rates on my package. So if it goes up now $10 per month ,Thats only $5 per year increase. Not really that awful bad IMO. So I'll pay the same as D* for my E* bill , Except I'll get Encore Pack,TMC,TMCxtra ,ESPNU, CBSC, Outdoor, and a few others

Exactly. Ive had a 622/722/HR20 and now HR22. The people that yapp on about D*'s equipment being so bad are either full of **** or just stirring the pot..Funny. If thats how you feel. Thats fine with me.:)

Spring is in the air.

MLB Net - Priceless.

Its even in the Choice package.

Excellent PQ and the best pillar box design I have seen thus far.

Exactly. Ive had a 622/722/HR20 and now HR22. The people that yapp on about D*'s equipment being so bad are either full of **** or just stirring the pot.

The Dish apologists on this site can say what they want, but Dish network sucks and its reinforced by this crappy HD picture Im looking at while being at my inlaws for the holidays. I have no regret over going back to D*. I think many others feel the same way since Dish's total sub count is going in reverse.

Dish Network is like the dollar tree of retail.

Ouch...anyways the talk of Dish's DVR's does get a bit old, I have family members that have dish and in comparion to my Directv DVR...not really seeing what all the fuss is about??

oops...and to stick to topic, watching the Don Larson perfect game, seeing the commericals back then is just to cool!

I agree with much of what I have read regarding the launching of the MLB Network. The TV schedule is fantastic for baseball fanatics. For example, I am a lifelong Yankee fan, and have seen Yogi leap onto Don Larsen at the end of the perfect game - probably thousands of times - but on Thursday, I got to see just about the entire game with original commercials for the FIRST TIME.

A member in another thread on MLB said they are putting on stale boring re-runs, but THIS re-run had NEVER been shown since the day it originally aired on October 8, 1956. Watching Jackie Robinson hit and field, as well as Pee Wee, The Duke, Gil Hodges, Roy Campenella - PRICELESS. Same for seeing The Mick as an early 20 year old speed demon - Billy Martin, etc.

The replay of classic World Series games upcoming (many converted to HD), many never shown since they first aired - those are stale and boring? Not to me. Tours of the stadiums in HD - I have been to many of them - I can't wait.

So, if you are a baseball junkie it is fantastic, if you're not who cares what provider carries it. I'm glad I have it. Others rave over QVC-HD, and if it works for them so be it.

I agree with much of what I have read regarding the launching of the MLB Network. The TV schedule is fantastic for baseball fanatics. For example, I am a lifelong Yankee fan, and have seen Yogi leap onto Don Larsen at the end of the perfect game - probably thousands of times - but on Thursday, I got to see just about the entire game with original commercials for the FIRST TIME.

A member in another thread on MLB said they are putting on stale boring re-runs, but THIS re-run had NEVER been shown since the day it originally aired on October 8, 1956. Watching Jackie Robinson hit and field, as well as Pee Wee, The Duke, Gil Hodges, Roy Campenella - PRICELESS. Same for seeing The Mick as an early 20 year old speed demon - Billy Martin, etc.

The replay of classic World Series games upcoming (many converted to HD), many never shown since they first aired - those are stale and boring? Not to me. Tours of the stadiums in HD - I have been to many of them - I can't wait.

So, if you are a baseball junkie it is fantastic, if you're not who cares what provider carries it. I'm glad I have it. Others rave over QVC-HD, and if it works for them so be it.
Could not have said it better myself.

Each day there are fewer and fewer repeats.

Today I probably spent 4 hours watching this channels with the Ken Burn's special, Hot Stove, and Dodger Blue.

BTW, do you realize how many Hall of Famers were on these two teams? I believe it was around 6 or more on each team.