In my opinion.....

Bouquets & Brickbats:

Dish currently has the best DVR (VIP622/VIP722 & the new 'K' models offering 4 total tuners in a single chassis) though external storage capability (size) seems to be lagging. C'mon E*, the sweet spot in EHDs right now is 1.5 TB. Kudos also to Dish for their 211 receiver $39.99 conversion to a DVR with only a phone call and one time payment and no DVR fees (or phone line) required. More Kudos for continuing to offer ATSC tuners for OTA with local-into-local guide info.

DirecTV currently has the best signal distribution technology anchored in their SWM-8 stacker, though the necessary hardware can get a tad expensive if you have an MDU to do. Having to restart multiple receivers individually after a power interruption is also going to make the phones ring in tech support.

Brickbats go to E* for their problem-plagued 222 receiver and new eastern-arc MPEG4 choppy video problems and the CSR's still in the dark on both, still denying knowledge of known issues. Better fix this fast fellas! Subs will switch in a heartbeat and legally break contracts on justifiable grounds.

E* is also presently (still) in the middle of a protracted card-swap for reasons I'm sure are all too familiar to D* folks, along with being embroiled in a huge legal battle with TIVO. We're all growing quite weary of this circus. Settle it!

Brickbats to D* for discontinuing ATSC tuners and for refusing the dishmover package to long time legacy subs with older and very expensive Platinum E86 IRDs that many of us paid $500 apiece for. The replacements you offered (forced on us) (H20) were junk by comparison. Those subs paid a fortune for those wonderful old receivers and should have at least been swapped even-steven for DVRs. More brickbats to D* for the horribly unintuitive remotes. What creatin designed this thing?

More Kudos for continuing to offer ATSC tuners for OTA with local-into-local guide info.

Brickbats to D* for discontinuing ATSC tuners and for refusing the dishmover package to long time legacy subs with older and very expensive Platinum E86 IRDs that many of us paid $500 apiece for. The replacements you offered (forced on us) (H20) were junk by comparison. Those subs paid a fortune for those wonderful old receivers and should have at least been swapped even-steven for DVRs.

I agree with most all of what you said except these two statements. First Dish is also discontinuing the ATSC tuners as a standard feature in their new DVR's. You will soon need to purchase an add on to have this capability.

Then why would any company swap a non DVR for a DVR. Did you forget that the E86 was not a great receiver. It had a pretty bad ATSC tuner and also over heated all the time. I had one of these and I could not pick up most of my locals because of multipath issues with this box. Switched it out for a newer receiver and it compenstated for the issue more than the E86 did.

Purely from a technology standpoint, why does the TiVo v. E* court case matter?

Purely from a technology standpoint, why does the TiVo v. E* court case matter?

Because the E* DVR technology is based on stolen TiVo technology.

Because the E* DVR technology is based on stolen TiVo technology.Not for the receivers that you're so fond of.

I agree with most all of what you said except these two statements. First Dish is also discontinuing the ATSC tuners as a standard feature in their new DVR's. You will soon need to purchase an add on to have this capability.


I agree with the way Dish is doing it. Create a slide in module. No extra boxes or cables.


In my opinion.....

Bouquets & Brickbats:



You forgot one. Brickbats to D* for not allowing your users to go into the OTA setup and hit the scan button. Ask the users who are still waiting to watch their Fox station in New Orleans via OTA after they moved the digital signal back to their old analog VHF channel. Phone calls from the users and even the station engineer to DTV are going no where.

I agree with the way Dish is doing it. Create a slide in module. No extra boxes or cables.

Boy have times changed. I remember when everybody was slamming Directv for removing the OTA tuners from their receivers. Most people didn't complain about the extra box just that the OTA module was gone. Dish does it and nobody cares?????

Boy have times changed. I remember when everybody was slamming Directv for removing the OTA tuners from their receivers. Most people didn't complain about the extra box just that the OTA module was gone. Dish does it and nobody cares?????I care. I'm glad all my Dish HD boxes have OTA capability built in. IMO, ATSC tuners should be mandated in all STBs: cable, satellite, IP.

Boy have times changed. I remember when everybody was slamming Directv for removing the OTA tuners from their receivers. Most people didn't complain about the extra box just that the OTA module was gone. Dish does it and nobody cares?????

Here's my take on it. When you are ordering the service and/or receiver one of the questions they should ask is if you want the a free OTA module to receive additional channels from an antenna. If the user turns it down then they will not ship with one. If you are purchasing the box you should be able to purchase the DVR without the OTA module in order to save yourself a bit of money if you don't have antenna.

Let's face...most people out there don't have antennas. I know quite a few people with 722's and 622's that didn't even know they can hook up an antenna to it for HD locals. So it really makes sense to make it a slide in module in order to save a bit of money.

I agree it makes sense but it didn't seeem to make sense when Directv did it to people.

...IMO, ATSC tuners should be mandated in all STBs: cable, satellite, IP.I agree...just include that MSOs cannot charge for providing guide data for local channels and have my vote for president.

I agree it makes sense but it didn't seeem to make sense when Directv did it to people.

When DirecTV did it,

1) they didn't have a replacement product available for months, long after models with built-in ATSC hardware were sold out.
2) when the AM21 shipped, it was yet another box to add to your stack of electronics, taking up valuable space and generating heat, and
3) people say the AM21 is slow, although having used an HR-21 I can't imagine anything getting much slower than that

Because the E* DVR technology is based on stolen TiVo technology.

I assume you believe TiVo technology is the best? So if E* technology is based on the best, should he be putting this point in the positive category not the negative category, again "purely from a technology standpoint"?:)

When DirecTV did it,

1) they didn't have a replacement product available for months, long after models with built-in ATSC hardware were sold out.
2) when the AM21 shipped, it was yet another box to add to your stack of electronics, taking up valuable space and generating heat, and
3) people say the AM21 is slow, although having used an HR-21 I can't imagine anything getting much slower than that

People complained without know any information. As to your point on #3, who says the Dish tuner will not be slower than their other ones? Also where are the people that were upset about having to spend the extra money on the tuner when they didn't have to in the past? Also you #1 point is not valid as many people still were finding the HR20 models even after the ATSC hardware was released. Only thing people had to do was ask before the installation.

Sorry but this is very typical around this site. Dish does no wrong but Directv is evil when the same thing happens to both of them.

People complained without know any information. As to your point on #3, who says the Dish tuner will not be slower than their other ones? Also where are the people that were upset about having to spend the extra money on the tuner when they didn't have to in the past? Also you #1 point is not valid as many people still were finding the HR20 models even after the ATSC hardware was released. Only thing people had to do was ask before the installation.

Sorry but this is very typical around this site. Dish does no wrong but Directv is evil when the same thing happens to both of them.

+1

the only thing I like about the Dish's ota tuner card is that it's hidden nicely in the DVR unlike Directv that made a box as big as the dvr but thin of course.open that puppy up and it's ridiculous how little space the ota card takes in there. i would've at least rather have had an enclosure similar to an external drive that you can hide in back of the DVR or in another place.

People complained without know any information. As to your point on #3, who says the Dish tuner will not be slower than their other ones? Also where are the people that were upset about having to spend the extra money on the tuner when they didn't have to in the past? Also you #1 point is not valid as many people still were finding the HR20 models even after the ATSC hardware was released. Only thing people had to do was ask before the installation.

Sorry but this is very typical around this site. Dish does no wrong but Directv is evil when the same thing happens to both of them.


this site is more Dish oriented but I'm happier here than at DBS :)

this site is more Dish oriented but I'm happier here than at DBS :)

I know and I am happier here as well but my point is still valid.

the only thing I like about the Dish's ota tuner card is that it's hidden nicely in the DVR unlike Directv that made a box as big as the dvr but thin of course.open that puppy up and it's ridiculous how little space the ota card takes in there. i would've at least rather have had an enclosure similar to an external drive that you can hide in back of the DVR or in another place.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I like the fact that the AM21 sits on the HR21 with matching design and a very expensive and custom look, as long as people do not try to hold it in their hands for a close inspection:)

But the new E* plug-in OTA module will allow the E* HD DVR to have four independent tuners for recording, compared to D*’s two tuners. Again, “Purely from a technology standpoint”, you cannot possibly say the AM21 is better.

this site is more Dish oriented but I'm happier here than at DBS :)
Really? I can post on the Dish forum on this site without others making an issue. If a Direct sub posts something on DBS in the Dish forum, then a certain mod (initials J L) gets all over them. Yet others post on the Direct forum over there and the Direct mods don't hassle them as much.

ETA: Perhaps Direct people are just happier than Dish people??? :D:p

Really? I can post on the Dish forum on this site without others making an issue. If a Direct sub posts something on DBS in the Dish forum, then a certain mod (initials J L) gets all over them. Yet others post on the Direct forum over there and the Direct mods don't hassle them as much.

ETA: Perhaps Direct people are just happier than Dish people??? :D:p

:D:D

yeah that's exactly why I'm much happier here than over there;)

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I like the fact that the AM21 sits on the HR21 with matching design and a very expensive and custom look, as long as people do not try to hold it in their hands for a close inspection:)


true. at least it matches the main unit and it has that nice piano black finish;)



But the new E* plug-in OTA module will allow the E* HD DVR to have four independent tuners for recording, compared to D*’s two tuners. Again, “Purely from a technology standpoint”, you cannot possibly say the AM21 is better.


I agree!

But the new E* plug-in OTA module will allow the E* HD DVR to have four independent tuners for recording, compared to D*’s two tuners. Again, “Purely from a technology standpoint”, you cannot possibly say the AM21 is better.

The ability to record 4 items has nothing to do with the plug-in OTA module. That is a design of the DVR. The OTA tuner allows two OTArecordings just like the AM21.

Now with that being said I do think that the 922 will be a standout DVR because of being able to record 4 items.

Now another cool feature (who ever comes out with it first) will be to use all the DVR's in your house to record items and then watch them from any other DVR's. This is what I want as I will have 10 tuners to share between all of my recordings.:D

The ability to record 4 items has nothing to do with the plug-in OTA module. That is a design of the DVR. The OTA tuner allows two OTArecordings just like the AM21...

Without the module the K can only record two at a time, with it 4 at a time, with out the AM21, the HR can only record two at at time, with it still two at a time. It has nothing to do with the design detail, a key in the hands of two men looking for women that can open the door to two beautiful women is infinitely better than a key that opens the door only to an empty room:)

OTA What the Hell is that?? They still do that stuff.:D
I haven't used OTA in 20 years:)

But the new E* plug-in OTA module will allow the E* HD DVR to have four independent tuners for recording, compared to D*’s two tuners. Again, “Purely from a technology standpoint”, you cannot possibly say the AM21 is better.
Did anyone actually say it was better?


Personally, the size of the box that D* puts their tuners in would be a non issue for ME, but I think E* is doing it better by making it a slide in module. Some people just wouldnt want the extra "bulky" unit. Couple that with the fact that you would have 4 independant tuners (as you said), and the E* unit seems to be thought out a little better.

Did anyone actually say it was better?


Personally, the size of the box that D* puts their tuners in would be a non issue for ME, but I think E* is doing it better by making it a slide in module. Some people just wouldnt want the extra "bulky" unit. Couple that with the fact that you would have 4 independant tuners (as you said), and the E* unit seems to be thought out a little better.

People were saying they are pretty much the same, you said E* is a little better, I used the above analogy to joke about E* is "infinitely better".

The big question is, who is closer to the truth?:)

OTA What the Hell is that?? They still do that stuff.:D
I haven't used OTA in 20 years:)

Until all the sudden you realize both your tuners are in recording mode serving your kids' own interest, and there is not a damn thing you can do to watch anything you want even after a long day of work and finally you get to sit down having maybe half an hour to watch some TV:)

Oh BTW, most shows my family members record are networks shows anyway, so with the E* K DVRs, they can mess with their OTA all they want, and leave me alone with my two sat tuners please.

Until all the sudden you realize both your tuners are in recording mode serving your kids' own interest, and there is not a damn thing you can do to watch anything you want even after a long day of work and finally you get to sit down having maybe half an hour to watch some TV:)

Oh BTW, most shows my family members record are networks shows anyway, so with the E* K DVRs, they can mess with their OTA all they want, and leave me alone with my two sat tuners please.

That is what multiple DVR's are for. I don't allow the kids to touch my DVR as they have their own to record all of their shows on. Who ever is first to come to market with a MRV solution will be the leader in technology for me as this will give me 10 tuners to record shows on in my house. I should never have a conflict and no ability to record a show that I want to watch.

Until all the sudden you realize both your tuners are in recording mode serving your kids' own interest, and there is not a damn thing you can do to watch anything you want even after a long day of work and finally you get to sit down having maybe half an hour to watch some TV:)

Oh BTW, most shows my family members record are networks shows anyway, so with the E* K DVRs, they can mess with their OTA all they want, and leave me alone with my two sat tuners please.I have a total of 6 DVR's so thats not an issue in my house. The wife is forced to record her soaps on the R16 only.:D And she just loves that DVR. HA HA!:rolleyes:

the only thing I like about the Dish's ota tuner card is that it's hidden nicely in the DVR unlike Directv that made a box as big as the dvr but thin of course.open that puppy up and it's ridiculous how little space the ota card takes in there. i would've at least rather have had an enclosure similar to an external drive that you can hide in back of the DVR or in another place.

Really? The only thing? The ability to record four channels at once is really the deciding factor, along with PiP and support for two TVs from one box. And don't forget speed of the user interface.

Once again, Dish hardware pushes the envelope and DirecTV merely pushes the status quo.

Really? The only thing? The ability to record four channels at once is really the deciding factor, along with PiP and support for two TVs from one box. And don't forget speed of the user interface.

Once again, Dish hardware pushes the envelope and DirecTV merely pushes the status quo.
Which is pretty much what most people want. More is not necessarily better.

I have a total of 6 DVR's so thats not an issue in my house. The wife is forced to record her soaps on the R16 only.:D And she just loves that DVR. HA HA!:rolleyes:


I regret returning the 5th HD DVR thinking I had enough to go by and I thought it was a good idea to save $5 a month. It did not turn out that way and now I don't want to call to get another one because my contract will be extended. By the end of the year there will be a lot of new technologies on the table to choose from.

Which is pretty much what most people want. More is not necessarily better.

Please folks, most people will choose an OTA tuner that can add two more recordinng options to the HD DVR than one adds no more recording option, everything else being equal.

I regret returning the 5th HD DVR thinking I had enough to go by and I thought it was a good idea to save $5 a month. It did not turn out that way and now I don't want to call to get another one because my contract will be extended. By the end of the year there will be a lot of new technologies on the table to choose from.My next upgrade will be my 622 for the 922 with E*.
D* I'm going to Drop my D12 and R16 and Just get a H21 or what ever they have now for plain jane HD receivers. Baseball season coming up so I want YES in HD.

Which is pretty much what most people want. More is not necessarily better.

I think you lost sight of the topic of this thread. There is nothing interesting about the technology of the DirecTV DVR. I think the following are both true:

DirecTV makes a slow but reliable DVR that has most of the features of comparable cable DVRs.

Dish provides cutting-edge technology in its DVR platform and continues to set the bar for what DVRs can do.

Slow and reliable is fine, but when you ask about the technology of D* vs. E*, can you really say that there's anything interesting at all about DirecTV's technology? It's a dual-tuner DVR, period.

They've been trying for the past few years just to get the "reliable" part right, and to match the feature list of their old DirecTiVO (which they still haven't done).

I think you lost sight of the topic of this thread. There is nothing interesting about the technology of the DirecTV DVR. I think the following are both true:

DirecTV makes a slow but reliable DVR that has most of the features of comparable cable DVRs.

Dish provides cutting-edge technology in its DVR platform and continues to set the bar for what DVRs can do.

Slow and reliable is fine, but when you ask about the technology of D* vs. E*, can you really say that there's anything interesting at all about DirecTV's technology? It's a dual-tuner DVR, period.

They've been trying for the past few years just to get the "reliable" part right, and to match the feature list of their old DirecTiVO (which they still haven't done). I can agree with this.:)

Its like compairing a 1970 VW Bettle (D*) to a 2008 VW Bettle (E*)

The 70 Bug will start and run everyday, But is a Turtle with no options. It just performs its everyday functions thats about it.
08 Bug is Turbo charged get better gas mileage,faster and has all the latest gagets. And still very reliable.

Its like compairing a 1970 VW Bettle (D*) to a 2008 VW Bettle (E*)

The 70 Bug will start and run everyday, But is a Turtle with no options. It just performs its everyday functions thats about it.
08 Bug is Turbo charged get better gas mileage,faster and has all the latest gagets. And still very reliable.

Not true, the D* HD DVRs have a much more mature VOD feature than E* HD DVRs. They had released their online DVR scheduling some time ago, E* SlingGuide is still in beta, though the SlingGuide will be much more feature rich than the simple D* online scheduling, D* does not require a network/Internet connection to do it, E* will require ethernet to have SlingGuide.

D* is working on its Whole Home Viewing actively with its CE program, said it is their top priority, E* said on CES that they don't plan on a similar MRV as D*, if you have another HD set, Charlie believes it is better to get another HD DVR.

I don't necessarily disagree with Charlie's plan, the new 922 will have many new features that will compensate for the lack of MRV.

D* HD DVR can stream recorded HD/SD content to a laptop or PC at home, it is publicly available. Mediashare is also working on the D* HD DVRs though I think it is still in the CE program.

Not true, the D* HD DVRs have a much more mature VOD feature than E* HD DVRs. They had released their online DVR scheduling some time ago, E* SlingGuide is still in beta, though the SlingGuide will be much more feature rich than the simple D* online scheduling, D* does not require a network/Internet connection to do it, E* will require ethernet to have SlingGuide.

D* is working on its Whole Home Viewing actively with its CE program, said it is their top priority, E* said on CES that they don't plan on a similar MRV as D*, if you have another HD set, Charlie believes it is better to get another HD DVR.

I don't necessarily disagree with Charlie's plan, the new 922 will have many new features that will compensate for the lack of MRV.

D* HD DVR can stream recorded HD/SD content to a laptop or PC at home, it is a publicly available. Mediashare is also working on the D* HD DVRs though I think it is still in the CE program. CE and Beta testing doesn't count as a feature as far as 17 Million D* customers and I as well are concerned.

E* has VOD by the way. And theres Over 5000 options. As well as 1080p VOD. Might only be 1 Movie a month ,But its progress.
What about D* single wire solution. Can you run a wire streight from the Satellite dish to your DVR yet, or do you still have to buy that expensive Multi switch?

I think in comparing features, you will find (as we have in many discussions before) that both have, or had, features that the other doesnt. Some are more important to the average viewer than others, but they both do ALOT. They also both do many things similiar, if not different in ways

Really? The only thing? The ability to record four channels at once is really the deciding factor, along with PiP and support for two TVs from one box. And don't forget speed of the user interface.

Once again, Dish hardware pushes the envelope and DirecTV merely pushes the status quo.



I was talking about cosmetics. what you mentioned is what I love about it technologically. i agree that Dish keeps raising the bar for DVR's

Please folks, most people will choose an OTA tuner that can add two more recordinng options to the HD DVR than one adds no more recording option, everything else being equal.
:up

CE and Beta testing doesn't count as a feature as far as 17 Million D* customers and I as well are concerned.

Exactly why I made clear which is still in the CE, which is already available to the public. The D* online DVR scheduling and in-home PC streaming (DirecTV2PC) are already in the public, ahead of E*. D* is still testing the MRV, and saying it will be available soon, and E* says no they will not do MRV, just buy another HD DVR. Because of the two different responses I mentioned MRV since we know D* will have it soon, E* will not, it is not in their plan.


...What about D* single wire solution. Can you run a wire streight from the Satellite dish to your DVR yet, or do you still have to buy that expensive Multi switch?

D* already has it, called SWM, in fact the latest SWM is even better than E*'s because it only uses a single cable from the dish all the way to the switch. But comparing this one is not fair, because E* had single cable for two-tuner solution for a long time already, and D* only started now, so better be even nicer.

With that in mind, I am closely watching the 922 development, if the 922 gets delayed a great deal, and ends up widely available after a year, it will not be much a big deal anymore.

Timing is always an important element because technologies advance so fast today.

I think in comparing features, you will find (as we have in many discussions before) that both have, or had, features that the other doesnt. Some are more important to the average viewer than others, but they both do ALOT. They also both do many things similiar, if not different in ways

I do not disagree with what you are saying but we need to be careful not to use our own preference of any one particular technology to make an argument here. The issue here is who has more advanced technology on one particular feature, not whether you like or have any use for it or not.

Keep this always in mind, "purely:) from a technology standpoint", not from anything else, such as whether you care about the particular technology.

I think some of you were saying but I do not care for that one E* has, so it is not much an advantage, this is the same as saying well I am not a sports fan, so all the D* sports exclusive programing are not an advantage on E*.

See how fast the same D* fans will react to that one:)

I think some of you were saying but I do not care for that one E* has, so it is not much an advantage, this is the same as saying well I am not a sports fan, so all the D* sports exclusive programing are not an advantage on E*.

See how fast the same D* fans will react to that one:) I agree , Holding a $700 Million dollar Monopoly on NFL ST isn't exactly what I'd call a Technical atvantage over anyone.
Now Lets see how fast this gets attacked.

I understand that myoung, which is why (in this thread) I am not saying what I prefer as far as features go (for the most part anyway, I did say that the OTA solution was a little better on E*). I simply made the previous comment to make the point that both offer many features, and as you posted, the HR isnt in as "simple" as some have tried to say. There are many features available that the ViP doe not yet have, and vice versa.

Really? The only thing? The ability to record four channels at once is really the deciding factor, along with PiP and support for two TVs from one box. And don't forget speed of the user interface.

Once again, Dish hardware pushes the envelope and DirecTV merely pushes the status quo.


I agree Dish pushes the envelope all the way to the courtroom!.:eek:

I agree Dish pushes the envelope all the way to the courtroom!.:eek:

The technology used to push an envelope all the way to the courtroom must be very advanced. Have you ever heard any company succeeded in trying to push an envelope all the way to the courtroom yet?:) Again purely from a technology standpoint:)

The technology used to push an envelope all the way to the courtroom must be very advanced. Have you ever heard any company succeeded in trying to push an envelope all the way to the courtroom yet?:) Again purely from a technology standpoint:)

No Dish has not succeeded yet.;)
So it must be Echostar's turn.:rolleyes:

The question would be is this advanced technology the brainchild of the owner? or a copy of a similar copyrighted feature?.Sure hope Charlie did his homework on this one as the 922's Recommendations feature sounds alot like a direct copy of Tivo's Suggestions and if it is, is that feature also patented by Tivo?
and if it is it looks like Aces and Eights for Echostar.:confused:

No Dish has not succeeded yet.;)
So it must be Echostar's turn.:rolleyes:

The question would be is this advanced technology the brainchild of the owner? or a copy of a similar copyrighted feature?.Sure hope Charlie did his homework on this one as the 922's Recommendations feature sounds alot like a direct copy of Tivo's Suggestions and if it is, is that feature also patented by Tivo?
and if it is it looks like Aces and Eights for Echostar.:confused:

If you are hoping TiVo can stop Charlie on the technology front, I suggest you do not hold your breadth:)

If you are hoping TiVo can stop Charlie on the technology front, I suggest you do not hold your breadth:)


Don't have to hold my breath.Charlie's doing a great job all by himself putting his foot in his mouth as shown by the court's judgment that he already had to pay Tivo and what's worse for Charlie it ain't even over yet.Hey maybe it will work out for Charlie meaning the old lawsuit will end before the new one begins.:)

Don't have to hold my breath.Charlie's doing a great job all by himself putting his foot in his mouth as shown by the court's judgment that he already had to pay Tivo and what's worse for Charlie it ain't even over yet.Hey maybe it will work out for Charlie meaning the old lawsuit will end before the new one begins.:)

You realize I have tried to keep your posts to the topic and you continue to go off of it? Lawsuit or no lawsuit, TiVo will not be able to stop Charlie from advancing his own DVR technologies, while TiVo is at the risk of losing its patent all together. Two months from now the USPTO will likely declare the TiVo's DVR patent invalid, if so it will be the beginning of the end of TiVo as we know it.

You realize I have tried to keep your posts to the topic and you continue to go off of it? Lawsuit or no lawsuit, TiVo will not be able to stop Charlie from advancing his own DVR technologies, while TiVo is at the risk of losing its patent all together. Two months from now the USPTO will likely declare the TiVo's DVR patent invalid, if so it will be the beginning of the end of TiVo as we know it.


We will see won't we?.:D