Over the past few months Charlie has said that he wants dish to be a world class service, but we continue to really see more of the same from dish network. I honestly believe that dish is failing as a company and wont be around in two years if they stay on the same course. So with that said this is whats killing dish.

1. Upper Management

Upper management is who leads dish daily, and makes all the shots, while charlie has changed upper management, but has he really? They continue to make the same mistakes as they have in the past which leads me to believe that the truth in problem with Echo star is within Charlie and his click. They just don't seem to get what customers want, and they are very out of touch with the public. Charlie needs to have someone with fresh eyes, from the outside looking in. While Charlie may has tried this approach, I believe charlie went the wrong direction, and looked in the wrong spot. :wave Charlie call me if you want to know where the right direction is :) Also, Charlie wants to make Dish a world class service, and Dish has failed to make those changes. Dish has not done a single thing to secure that position and they continue to be a 3rd / 4th teir service.


2. Advertising.

Dish's Advertising has sucked. Even their new advertising has blatant lies in it such as they have the best HD picture quality around, wich is not true as dish still uses HD lite in transmission of most of their HD. Where as competitors are broadcasting full resolution HD at very good bit rates. Other lies in the new advertising is that dish has the most HD Anywhere.. That is questionable as dish counts RSN's in full time where they are not in Full time. Also, on dish's website it has a channel count comparison where dish blatantly show's directv not having channels that they do infact have For instance, dish claims that directv doesn't have 64 channels of Sirius music, When in fact directv has 59 Sirius XM channels, and 69 including the Sonic channels.

This is a very disturbing trend that dish has been doing, as their advertising has been misleading. This indeed show's the signs of desperation. Also, turn on a sporting program, you allways see directv's logo. I havent seen Dish's logo like how they used to have it at these events. I also haven't seen dish sponsor a program on ESPN or ABC like how they used to.

The 99.9 service reliability claim is False, There is no way that dish can offer service at a 99.9 service reliability as unfortunately there are underlining factor's such as storms, ect wich brings it down to somewhere around 98 percent. Also, some customers cant get dish at all due to LOS issues, those customers have 0 percent service reliability. Those customers could technically sue dish for false advertising as they cant get the 99.9 quality that dish's ads claim.

How dish can improve, bring some star power. Thier frank ads were great! Directv has had sucess with this as I still want Beonce to upgrade me :D.... Get your logo and name recognition out there. Become a house hold name like Directv, or Tivo. And point out the right things in your advertising such as how you have more Movie channels than Directv.

3. Customer Service

Dish, When I worked for them they took pride in getting the JD power excellence awards, This company is now a very diffrent company as now ATT Uverse has the award. Back then dish had 0 over seas call centers. Today you get the phillipeans and india unless you need technical support. Today dish's customer support is totally in the crapper and I blame dish for not supporting this economy and instead moving customer service over seas. Dish could very easly open up new call centers across the country and fire these phillipeans / indians you cant understand nore want to deal with. Let me give dish a word of advice, if you hire locally in the usa, not only would you be doing good for the economy, you could give your PR people some good news to put on the wires as a pro American company.

Also dish, stop calling me! I keep getting these annoying calls saying that my programming will be disrupted, even though I already canceled service! These calls keep coming in every day and causes customers to run the other way. I only owe dish 15 bucks for the service I have received, (just haven't paid them yet) and yet I keep getting annoyance calls telling me that my service will be disrupted, when I requested the service to be turned off.

4. Programming.

Dish, the lack of sports programming is KILLING YOU! You have been counting HD rsn's as apart of your full time package, yet You have only 1 full time HD rsn out of the 40+ that are out there. People want to see their games and dont want to worry about if dish is going to carry it or not. With every other provider this worry is not there as they know that Directv, or uverse will have the game as they offer their HD rsn's full time in HD. Also there is alot of HD programming from the games aside that are on these

Also you claim to be the HD leader when your own Dish Earth channel is in SD! Great idea, but slap an HD camera on there next time :)

Sporting packages have attracted Directv millions upon millions of coustomers. That type of investment has paid Directv Dividends. I don't know why dish has not done the same thing. MLB really has killed Dish, and NFL Sunday Ticket deals would have put Dish in a different league. Untill this happens, dish will always be a third / fourth teir service.

Also, Bump up your resolutions and match what the provider sends you via Mpeg 4. Then advertise your impeccable hd signal.


5. TIVO

While dish does have a stay currently, Tivo continues to be this dagger in the heart for dish, and every time there is a ruling that dagger gets twisted, turned and dug a little deeper. Sign an agreement with Tivo and just get this over already. This is another reason why customers continue to amplify the sinking titanic that is currently going on over at dish. Charlie, you just got your iceberg warning, stear the dam ship the other way! If dish and Tivo actually had a great relationship, OMG dish could actually market that, and spinn it for some good pr.


Dish talks alot of good game, but hasnt acted. Talk all the game you want, but charlie your actions speak louder than words, and with the right people in the right positions dish can indeed become a world class service. Untill this happens, Sorry Charlie, dish will Fail! In the current market conditions dish is on life support and has 2 years untill it dies, unless Charlie gets some treatment from Dr. goaliebob :) :ok:

bravo bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!

From an outsider I can definitely see the affects of poor advertising. I see DirecTV advertise everywhere on everything and they have some of the most creative and informative commercials. Some commercials may stretch the truth (perhaps lie), such as the one on Fox Saturday baseball that states, "Catch EVERY MLB game in HD ALL season, with DirecTV". This is where I disagree with you here, Goaliebob. I think Dish needs to do more "stretching the truth" comercials. It works for others, perhaps they should do the same?

Dish needs to do more of what DirecTV is doing. I cannnot tell you how many people I encounter whom do not have Dish nor Direct and believe that they are the same company, named DirecTV. This is probably because they see DirecTV everywhere on everything they watch. If and when they do decide to sign up for satellite, they will more likely than not, sign up for Direct (mainly due to name recognition).

Dish not only needs to improve their advertising by advertising more, they need to make their advertising more effective by appealing to others. They need to tell potential subs why Dish is better than the other providers. Dish needs to advertise their DVR and their channel options. Since they took over the HD lead, I have yet to see a single comercial advertising that they ARE the nationwide HD LEADER. I have yet to see a single comercial convincing me why their VIP DVRs are the best.

As a DirecTV subscriber I want to see Dish do much better. A sucessful Dishnetwork would mak my DirecTV product much better and even give me a another option, if I choose to leave.

Bob, I think you should have include the programming disputes that Charlie seems to have, more then other providers, for either national or local channels. Folks don't like to see a channel they view/like being removed because Charlie says it's too expensive to carry with their local cable or DirecTV has them no problem.

other boring day in the sat world ,eh..

I think we have a troll in the house. :D

Seriously, I don't think Dish network is failing at all. I am quite content with the programming choices; and think the picture quality has improved dramtically over the past two years. As far as programming goes, there is NOTHING out there that I want that Dish doesn't have already. While I don't like the outsourcing of Customer Service, Dish is certainly not the worst offender there is on that issue. I am glad Dish doesn't make me have to pay more in order to have MLB; and I am more critical of the NFL for limiting the opportunities for folks to get Sunday Ticket.

Your statements of upper management are critical, but don't really say anything. Its a hollow paragraph that provides me with nothing.

Dish's Advertising is ok; they don't lie any worse than the competition - any of the competition.

And Tivo? Tivo is a gnat; it is an expensive gnat; but eventually it will go away. The reality is that Dish has the best damn dvr on the planet; and it is not effected by the law-suit. The 722/622 Vip series rocks.

:)

other boring day in the sat world ,eh..


Not really, Just tired of dish's same old attitude, dish wont get fixed until this attitude gets fixed. I also agree about the programming note on dish pulling channels.

I think we have a troll in the house. :D

Seriously, I don't think Dish network is failing at all. I am quite content with the programming choices; and think the picture quality has improved dramtically over the past two years. As far as programming goes, there is NOTHING out there that I want that Dish doesn't have already. While I don't like the outsourcing of Customer Service, Dish is certainly not the worst offender there is on that issue. I am glad Dish doesn't make me have to pay more in order to have MLB; and I am more critical of the NFL for limiting the opportunities for folks to get Sunday Ticket.

Your statements of upper management are critical, but don't really say anything. Its a hollow paragraph that provides me with nothing.

Dish's Advertising is ok; they don't lie any worse than the competition - any of the competition.

And Tivo? Tivo is a gnat; it is an expensive gnat; but eventually it will go away. The reality is that Dish has the best damn dvr on the planet; and it is not effected by the law-suit. The 722/622 Vip series rocks.

:)

I wouldnt count your chickens before they hatch on the DVR as the patent in its current form could affect the current DVR if Tivo goes after them for that. If the ruling comes down saying that dish's work around does infringe, then any dvr that dish makes is fair game for tivo to have the court turn off.

Uppermanagemnt is what has lead dish to where they are today, and its their job to dig dish out of the hole they are in. They have failed to do so!

I disagree with dish's advertising. I havent seen anything in the class of advertising that dish has done that's like directv. Look at Directv's board room commercials. Those commercials are effective. Rocky I think you have gone happy to much :D

For you to say that dish isnt failing, is competley inaccurate as they are shedding customers left and right. Untill they have positive numbers, They are indeed failing. Churn is a great beromitor of how dish is doing. What happens when dish has no customers left? no profit! = Fail.

13 million customers don't seem to think they failed. I for one don't think they have either. D* IMO is failing, and just wait untill all those new customers find out for themselves the hard way. Glad I'm out from under the D* belt. Its hard to get out too.

I think we have a troll in the house. :D

Seriously, I don't think Dish network is failing at all. I am quite content with the programming choices; and think the picture quality has improved dramtically over the past two years. As far as programming goes, there is NOTHING out there that I want that Dish doesn't have already. While I don't like the outsourcing of Customer Service, Dish is certainly not the worst offender there is on that issue. I am glad Dish doesn't make me have to pay more in order to have MLB; and I am more critical of the NFL for limiting the opportunities for folks to get Sunday Ticket.

Your statements of upper management are critical, but don't really say anything. Its a hollow paragraph that provides me with nothing.

Dish's Advertising is ok; they don't lie any worse than the competition - any of the competition.

And Tivo? Tivo is a gnat; it is an expensive gnat; but eventually it will go away. The reality is that Dish has the best damn dvr on the planet; and it is not effected by the law-suit. The 722/622 Vip series rocks.

:)Your personal feelings and pleasure with Dish has nothing to do with Dish as a whole when it comes to success. Think about it, they are losing subs, they don't advertise, and although they do have some things that separate them from other providers, the public is unaware of these things.

People go to cable, FiOS, or U-Verse because of bundle deals. People go to Direct because of sports. Few people are aware of any unique Dish qualities. They are unaware of their inexpensive base pakces; they are unaware that they have an internal Sling in some of their DVRs, that they offer so much Premium HD channels, or that they have 1080p HD VOD. Dish needs to make this known. Without doing so, why would new sub choose Dish over others?

13 million customers don't seem to think they failed. I for one don't think they have either. D* IMO is failing, and just wait untill all those new customers find out for themselves the hard way. Glad I'm out from under the D* belt. Its hard to get out too.
Which parameters do you use to conclude that Direct is failing? They are gaining subs, have many more subs, had a lower churn rate, higher customer satisfaction, and advertise better than any other provider.

I would like to note that Dish Network Ranked 4th on 2008's jd power scale. Directv ranked third behind Uverse and VZ Fios.

2008 Residential Television Service Satisfaction Study | J.D. Power and Associates (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008204)

The funniest thing is that DISH has consistently made large profits ,even with subs dropping for the last 3 quarters. I think the biggest impediment to DISH's success is CHARLIE ERGEN. He tries to control everything major in the company-major control freak. He is gotten older and more set in his ways . He is stubborn , arrogant, and he likes to gamble with his money in more ways than I can count. But let me try to count a few.

1. Major disputes with local channel providers , channels pulled & customers disgruntled .
2. Won't add most sports packs like Major League Baseball due to "costs". He is losing more money to subs who churn because of the lack of sports programming . I don't even like sports but it needs to be available if you want to attract high paying subs -MEN who like to spend to watch what they want , when they want.
3. TIVO lawsuit- How long is he going to continue to fight this one? He is going to spend more money in the long run than if he would just pay to license the damn software HE stole in the first place. THis could destroy DISH if they turn off the DISH dvrs over the contempt charges. Why not turn this in to a good partnership that can make both companies $$$$?
4. Voom - I kind of sided with DISH on this one because the repeats were getting so repetitive that I stopped watching VOOM at all . This could of been worked out and DISH could of still had something unique that they could advertise. INstead more lawsuits , more money to fight them.

The advertisers , and I use that word jokingly, need to be replaced . USe some of that damn profit $$ and pay a real company to do the job. It takes money to make money. Ask Directv on that one. It works. Directv added more subs than ever, even in a RECESSION! Most of them subs who churned from DISH.

The call centers & their customer service is also a joke. NO ONE wants to talk to Apoo from the 7-11 in India about their satellite concerns. This alienates people from the service and causes more churn. Also you can lose the damn automated answering service. This too , pisses people off when you want to talk to someone LIVE. AGAIN spend that damn $$$ and hire AMERICANS who can actually talk the English language -fire "Bob" and "Susan" from India and the Philipines.

Now the final way you can actually make your company shine is to SIMPLIFY your programming packages and fees. Lose the metallic names, put all hd channels in the same corresponding packs for ALL HD. This really pisses people off AGAIN! We don't need to make the programming so hard to understand. WE don't need a DVR FEE PER RECEIVER. This one fee is a ball buster and hurts the subs who want more than one dvr on their account and it screws with Echostar selling more dvrs to DISH. Directv has it right on this one. ONE dvr fee per account unless you take their dvr plus pack. DISH could do the same thing and actually COMPETE with DIRECTV . Years ago in the early part of their decade , DISH actually had NO DVR Fee and advertised that fact and grew their company the fastest ever.

Now maybe DISH needs to push old Charlie out of day to day business decisions and hire someone that can put his company first and his ego last. As long as Charlie remains in the forefront of the company , DISH will continue to lose subs and falter. It is way past time for a "CHANGE".

Which parameters do you use to conclude that Direct is failing? They are gaining subs, have many more subs, had a lower churn rate, higher customer satisfaction, and advertise better than any other provider. Just wait.;)

The funniest thing is that DISH has consistently made large profits ,even with subs dropping for the last 3 quarters. .
That is one of the reasons for their profits. It costs to add new subs and retain existing subs.

Just wait.;)
You think they are now operating over their head?

Could be. I don't think it is enough to cause them to fail if they are.

You think they are now operating over their head?
. Maybe? Could Be? Time will tell.;);)

That is one of the reasons for their profits. It costs to add new subs and retain existing subs.

BUT again as I said before ; YOU have to spend money to make money. You can't continue to make the profits on the backs of the ever dwindling customer base. FEES and price hikes will kill you. It hurt cable when satellite tv started. In fact DISH itself used to parody the "cable pig " for many years. Now they too have become just like cable . Ask Charlie and he will tell you himself: OINK ! OINK!

BUT again as I said before ; YOU have to spend money to make money. You can't continue to make the profits on the backs of the ever dwindling customer base. FEES and price hikes will kill you. It hurt cable when satellite tv started. In fact DISH itself used to parody the "cable pig " for many years. Now they too have become just like cable . Ask Charlie and he will tell you himself: OINK ! OINK!
I agree. I was just explaining one reason why they had a higher profit percentage than Direct. New subs cost. They don't make money off of them for quite a few months later.

#6: Charlie Ergen, the world's worst negotiator

The litany of retrans disputes in Dish's short history is appalling. I've had it myself...Colleen! Doreen! Freedom GMs! Answer!

Direct...

Slow receivers
Poor premiums (where is HBO you promised)
HD? Where is it?
Expensive packages (at least Dish gives some choices)
OTA ... Direct AM21 is a joke
12.00 Multi sports pack versus 5.95 or Dish (I get three RSN's .. soit is worth it!)

I have thought of changing but when push comes to shove the HD choices are better, the DVR's are better, and the price is right. Dish has made a lot of mistakes but Direct is even making a bigger mistake by not burying them when they are down!

Direct gets a better HD-DVR, adds a few HD channels like Travel, WGN, adds HBO and Cinemax premiums, and I might reconsider them.

This is exactly what Dish should say in their advertising.

Now, let me do the Direct response. :p

Direct...

Slow receivers
Depends


Poor premiums (where is HBO you promised)True. Sorry, don't know how Direct can possible counter this point. Perhaps talk about VOD???


HD? Where is it?Where it has always been. More than most providers btw. Depending on how one counts, more than Dish. [Of course, the channels that most watch, Dish is ahead.]


Expensive packages (at least Dish gives some choices)One of the most common misconceptions. Most packages are comparable in price to Dish and some are even cheaper. The package I have with my setup, probably the most common setup, is cheaper with Direct than Dish.


OTA ... Direct AM21 is a jokeHow do you know? It isn't a joke in the HR20.


12.00 Multi sports pack versus 5.95 or Dish (I get three RSN's .. soit is worth it!)Do you really want to compare the sports packages and RSNs?


I have thought of changing but when push comes to shove the HD choices are better, the DVR's are better, and the price is right. Dish has made a lot of mistakes but Direct is even making a bigger mistake by not burying them when they are down!I think Dish is burying itself.


Direct gets a better HD-DVR, adds a few HD channels like Travel, WGN, adds HBO and Cinemax premiums, and I might reconsider them.Wait until next year. ;)

Direct...

Slow receivers
Poor premiums (where is HBO you promised)
HD? Where is it?
Expensive packages (at least Dish gives some choices)
OTA ... Direct AM21 is a joke
12.00 Multi sports pack versus 5.95 or Dish (I get three RSN's .. soit is worth it!)

I have thought of changing but when push comes to shove the HD choices are better, the DVR's are better, and the price is right. Dish has made a lot of mistakes but Direct is even making a bigger mistake by not burying them when they are down!

Direct gets a better HD-DVR, adds a few HD channels like Travel, WGN, adds HBO and Cinemax premiums, and I might reconsider them.

Wouldn't you think that DISH would use some of those comparisons in their advertising? I know these facts and you know them , but do most potential subs know those facts? IF they did they would already be DISH subs .

Direct...

Slow receivers
Poor premiums (where is HBO you promised)
HD? Where is it?
Expensive packages (at least Dish gives some choices)
OTA ... Direct AM21 is a joke
12.00 Multi sports pack versus 5.95 or Dish (I get three RSN's .. soit is worth it!)

I have thought of changing but when push comes to shove the HD choices are better, the DVR's are better, and the price is right. Dish has made a lot of mistakes but Direct is even making a bigger mistake by not burying them when they are down!

Direct gets a better HD-DVR, adds a few HD channels like Travel, WGN, adds HBO and Cinemax premiums, and I might reconsider them. Agree. D* could have it in the bag if they just maybe didn't need to make High Price sports packs exclusive , and maybe just maybe added some Premiums as well as much more HD, and maybe Hire a professional to perfect the HD DVRs, instead of using average joes as beta testers.

Wouldn't you think that DISH would use some of those comparisons in their advertising? I know these facts and you know them , but do most potential subs know those facts? IF they did they would already be DISH subs . Charlie doesn't spend much on advertising , That we know. His commercials are very cheap with limited information. I think that alone makes a huge difference.

Charlie doesn't spend much on advertising , That we know. His commercials are very cheap with limited information. I think that alone makes a huge difference.
That is probably the biggest reason for the difference.

Wouldn't you think that DISH would use some of those comparisons in their advertising? I know these facts and you know them , but do most potential subs know those facts? IF they did they would already be DISH subs .
Lol, then that proves it. Terrible advertising is killing E* sub numbers. People just dont know!

Seriously, E* has some good things going for it.

Premiums, number of HD channels, a great DVR.

However, some of the things he stated are just as arguable as the "best HD PQ in the business" claim they make on their newest commercial.

In any case, I think we all know E* advertising sucks. Has for a LONG time

I have been with Dish for many years, and plan to be with them for the long run--unless the VIP DVRs get turned off. The quality of everything has gradually improved through the years. To me, Dish's future looks bright--once they resolve the Tivo situation.

Charlie doesn't spend much on advertising , That we know. His commercials are very cheap with limited information. I think that alone makes a huge difference.

the frank caliendo commercials imitating celebs were awful. it's cheaper to hire a person that can imitate many celebs than to hire just one real one :D

Lol, then that proves it. Terrible advertising is killing E* sub numbers. People just dont know!

Seriously, E* has some good things going for it.

Premiums, number of HD channels, a great DVR.

However, some of the things he stated are just as arguable as the "best HD PQ in the business" claim they make on their newest commercial.

In any case, I think we all know E* advertising sucks. Has for a LONG time

yeah E is fine. they've taken some good steps lately by all the hd chan. adds. and that beautiful 922 that's on it's way ;)

there advertising has always been bad since day one of the company - nothing new there.

the frank caliendo commercials imitating celebs were awful. it's cheaper to hire a person that can imitate many celebs than to hire just one real one :D
Plus they didn't sale anything. I cannot recall what the commercials were even about when it came to Dish. I just remember him imitating characters. I do remember what the terminator guy said about Direct itself.

Bob, you make some valid points in your post but the title of the thread is a bit rediculous. If a business is still in business it has not failed! Now, to say failing? That could be debated.

I have had good overall service, PQ and good luck with equipment. I have had a few retarded installers that I had to straigten out but otherwise no complaints.

One thing that certainly must be taking a toll on Dish is AT&T's ability to increasingly bundle its own TV service with phone and Internet, rather than Dish (or Direct), as At&T expands into new neighborhoods.

I dropped Dish 3 years ago to go with my cable cos. bundle, which saves me over $50 month compared to the cost of getting the same level of TV service from Dish while getting high speed Internet and phone elsewhere. I also haven't seen a price hike in my cable bill over those three years, and I am actually getting more for my money in the form of more channels, especially HD, and higher Internet speeds (from 5 Mbs to 9 Mbs) over that timeframe.

ATT bundles with Direct now. If you go into any ATT store, even ones in U-Verse areas, they sale both DirecTV and U-Verse. The one here had one TV playing a U-Verse transmission and another playing a DirecTV transmission. I don't know if they give you the same bundle rebates on the phone or internet with U-Verse and Direct.

Dish Network still has resale agreements with nearly all rural telecos. This is an area that will see consolidation in the future that could bode well for Dish from a marketing standpoint. For example, my local teleco, CenturyTel recently acquired Embarq to create CenturyLink, both of these are Dish resellers. Frontier Communications also recently acquired 4.8 million Verizion lines. You also have Windstream and Fairpoint who are also good sized companies.

Bob, when you get your panties in a bunch, it is a HOOT! How many beers have you had???

Not really, Just tired of dish's same old attitude, dish wont get fixed until this attitude gets fixed. I also agree about the programming note on dish pulling channels.
Do you have Dish?

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (May 11,2009) - Dish Network Corp., the nation's second-largest satellite TV provider, said Monday that its first-quarter profit rose 21 percent as revenue climbed partly on equipment sales. Source: AOL financials

If I could see that kind of profit increase, I'd like to be a failure too.

Seriously though I am very happy with Dish and would recommend it to anyone looking for satellite.

I don't see them as a failure. It was an easy choice when I had to pick one. I don't watch sports on TV...find it boring and A.D.D out to the TV. So Dish was an easy choice for me. Happy I made the choice when I use my friends DirecTV DVR.

Love being a "coustomer" of theirs.

I am for the MOST part happy with Dish. I do wish everyone from upper management to the csr's would get on the same page. How hard can that be?? I get tired of calling and one csr not have the right information or just plain lie to you. It does start at the top!!

Most of the Dish subs on here would be happy with Dish, that is why they are with them. The issue is though, what is Dish doing wrong to convince others that they too will be happy with them? I think it mostly comes down to advertising

I don't see them as a failure either...don't know how that line of thinking came about, but there is truth to the fact that E*s marketing is not doing them any favors.

The big thing with D* is their 'big box' presence in major retailer stores. I mean, you buy an HDTV at Best Buy or the now defunct Circuit City, and you pretty much automatically got a Directv subscription thrown into the deal right off the bat. As if its all part of the package. DishNetwork has a retailer presence at Sears and Kmart, but is not as aggressively marketed.

The big thing with D* is their 'big box' presence in major retailer stores. I mean, you buy an HDTV at Best Buy or the now defunct Circuit City, and you pretty much automatically got a Directv subscription thrown into the deal right off the bat. As if its all part of the package. DishNetwork has a retailer presence at Sears and Kmart, but is not as aggressively marketed.
This too is another good point. Even if people do not buy Direct at these mega electronic stores, they constantly see them every time they walk in.

Bob, when you get your panties in a bunch, it is a HOOT! How many beers have you had???

ROTFLMAO

4. Programming.

Dish, the lack of sports programming is KILLING YOU! You have been counting HD rsn's as apart of your full time package, yet You have only 1 full time HD rsn out of the 40+ that are out there. People want to see their games and dont want to worry about if dish is going to carry it or not. With every other provider this worry is not there as they know that Directv, or uverse will have the game as they offer their HD rsn's full time in HD. Also there is alot of HD programming from the games aside that are on these

Also you claim to be the HD leader when your own Dish Earth channel is in SD! Great idea, but slap an HD camera on there next time :)

Sporting packages have attracted Directv millions upon millions of coustomers. That type of investment has paid Directv Dividends. I don't know why dish has not done the same thing. MLB really has killed Dish, and NFL Sunday Ticket deals would have put Dish in a different league. Untill this happens, dish will always be a third / fourth teir service.

Also, Bump up your resolutions and match what the provider sends you via Mpeg 4. Then advertise your impeccable hd signal.

No disrespect but i disagree with you on this point. Sports is cool and all but what people never mention is to get these great sports games on D* you have to pay $200.00-$300.00 a season per sport. I will gladly take the overwhelmingly more premium HD movie channels over the option to buy NFL or MLB packages.

No disrespect but i disagree with you on this point. Sports is cool and all but what people never mention is to get these great sports games on D* you have to pay $200.00-$300.00 a season per sport. I will gladly take the overwhelmingly more premium HD movie channels over the option to buy NFL or MLB packages.
But it is something that separates them from the others. Even though Dish has much more Premium HDs than Direct, they do not have many more Premiums (most people do not sub to HD) and many other providers offer their fair share as well. There is nothing Dish offers that really seperates them from the others when it comes to premiums.

BTW, Yes is one of my favorite groups. :up

Looks like some of the posts may have this thread going over to the warzone perhaps..

I have had Dish fot about three months, moving for Direct and its been going well

1. Customer service, two general calls both sounded like they were answered in the USA. I had heard they were having more calls answered here.

2. HD picture, I may not be as tech savy as most of the satelliteguy posters, but I dont see a real difference, If I noticed a difference in HD picture, I would be a bit upset but I have not

3. Advertisng- This I do agree, maybe a couple of sharp TV ads, as the few that I have seen dont seem to have much invested in them, when you can market some things- National HD leader, more movie preimums, one DVR that can work in two rooms.. As a sports fan myself, I know that the sunday ticket brings them to Direct. But I do think that there are those who are not huge into sports and if they could see what they may get with Dish, while still getting a sports fix, maybe they could get those to think about it, as they market what they have. With programming it does not all begin and end with sports

4. I do think for some its nice that they do have a few programing packages, if you are on looking for some HD channels and a decent price. They have some nice entry level prices.

5. As far as management goes, I have not had the service long enough to see what the truth might be. At the team summitt meetings, the top brass mentioned that they know they need to step up, I guess we will have to see if they can follow up, I will leave that to the more seasoned Dish sub

I think we have a troll in the house. :D

Seriously, I don't think Dish network is failing at all. I am quite content with the programming choices; and think the picture quality has improved dramtically over the past two years. As far as programming goes, there is NOTHING out there that I want that Dish doesn't have already. While I don't like the outsourcing of Customer Service, Dish is certainly not the worst offender there is on that issue. I am glad Dish doesn't make me have to pay more in order to have MLB; and I am more critical of the NFL for limiting the opportunities for folks to get Sunday Ticket.

Your statements of upper management are critical, but don't really say anything. Its a hollow paragraph that provides me with nothing.

Dish's Advertising is ok; they don't lie any worse than the competition - any of the competition.

And Tivo? Tivo is a gnat; it is an expensive gnat; but eventually it will go away. The reality is that Dish has the best damn dvr on the planet; and it is not effected by the law-suit. The 722/622 Vip series rocks.

:)Same thoughts here Bob and I have both providers... Most Dish subs could care less about the Sports, I get all the NFL games I need on my locals, NFL Net or Espn...

No disrespect but i disagree with you on this point. Sports is cool and all but what people never mention is to get these great sports games on D* you have to pay $200.00-$300.00 a season per sport. I will gladly take the overwhelmingly more premium HD movie channels over the option to buy NFL or MLB packages.

Be careful with talk like that...or the wrath of the visigoths shall fall upon your head! :D

Either way, I give you post of the year for that one...you've pretty much summed up every bit of comparitive analysis in this forum in just two lines of text...:)

I would like to see the two companies merge. I believe as subs from both sides we would benefit from this immensely. I think the Fed's blocked this before and this may be a moot point but would give cable real competition as well. Dish isn't as bad as some think though. There is nothing out there that would compel me to change from being an E* sub.... just my 2 cents.

I would like to see the two companies merge. I believe as subs from both sides we would benefit from this immensely. I think the Fed's blocked this before and this may be a moot point but would give cable real competition as well. Dish isn't as bad as some think though. There is nothing out there that would compel me to change from being an E* sub.... just my 2 cents.
Not I. I would love to see both succeed and both gain a lot of subs. Healthy competition is good for both Direct and Dish subs.

Be careful with talk like that...or the wrath of the visigoths shall fall upon your head! :D

Either way, I give you post of the year for that one...you've pretty much summed up every bit of comparitive analysis in this forum in just two lines of text...:)
Which is why he is with Dish. Just like what I stated above, I like the fact that both providers have something a little different and I want to see both providers succeed.

Which is why he is with Dish. Just like what I stated above, I like the fact that both providers have something a little different and I want to see both providers succeed.

Yes, I know....;)

Same thoughts here Bob and I have both providers... Most Dish subs could care less about the Sports, I get all the NFL games I need on my locals, NFL Net or Espn...

"Most Dish subs could care less about the Sports"
It is inaacurate and uprovable statements like the above that screw up threads.
PLease do not post things that you cannot support with links that support statements.
BTW, I am huge sports fan and I most likely have had Dish longer than most people on here. Since 1997.

Now just because YOU get all the games you want does not mean it is ok for the rst of us to want our provider to at least take an oppotunity to serve it's customers in a differnt manner.

I don't have to support it, it is my opinion which is what everyone posts here...If you want sports switch to Directv... I have both and like both, but have not subbed to the Sunday Ticket in years because of over pricing... I've had C-Band since the very early 80's, Directv since 96 and Dish since '01... I went from C-Band only to Directv for the portability, then to Dish for the Supers when UPN scrambled... you migrate to what has what you want, you don't expect the provider to give you everything. I had dial up internet, now I have broadband because of that same reason.

Been thinking about this a lot -- Bob, you are acting like a troll with even starting this thread. You have bad feelings for Dish, a former employer, but most of your argument is based in nothing but hot air. Dish has been kicking DirecTV's arse for the past six months, and pretty much everybody knows it.

I don't see what the purpose of this thread is. In fact, it probably deserves to be in the War-zone, if anywhere.

Been thinking about this a lot -- Bob, you are acting like a troll with even starting this thread. You have bad feelings for Dish, a former employer, but most of your argument is based in nothing but hot air. Dish has been kicking DirecTV's arse for the past six months, and pretty much everybody knows it.

I don't see what the purpose of this thread is. In fact, it probably deserves to be in the War-zone, if anywhere.
Kicking Direct's arse in which way?

Kicking Direct's arse in which way?

New programming?

New programming?
For six months? In the way you said?

I will admit that E* has more of the mainstream now, but they just caught up unless my memory is playing tricks. Which is possible.

New programming?
Temporarily taking the lead is not exactly what I would consider an arse kicking. Considering their sub loss, I don't think many others would consider it an arse kicking either.

Moved to where this belongs - in the warzone. Argue to your hearts content.

Really, I don't care. I still think Bob's arguments are specious at best.

Charlie loses subs but makes the most money on internationals and XXX channels.

Thanks for moving rocky... been busy watching/catching up on The Alaska Experiment (from Directv) in the HT room... while recording 2 timers from the premiums on Dish...

Thanks for moving rocky... been busy watching/catching up on The Alaska Experiment (from Directv) in the HT room... while recording 2 timers from the premiums on Dish...
Alaska Experiment? What is this program we speak of?

I think we have a troll in the house. :D

Seriously, I don't think Dish network is failing at all. I am quite content with the programming choices; and think the picture quality has improved dramtically over the past two years. As far as programming goes, there is NOTHING out there that I want that Dish doesn't have already. While I don't like the outsourcing of Customer Service, Dish is certainly not the worst offender there is on that issue. I am glad Dish doesn't make me have to pay more in order to have MLB; and I am more critical of the NFL for limiting the opportunities for folks to get Sunday Ticket.

Your statements of upper management are critical, but don't really say anything. Its a hollow paragraph that provides me with nothing.

Dish's Advertising is ok; they don't lie any worse than the competition - any of the competition.

And Tivo? Tivo is a gnat; it is an expensive gnat; but eventually it will go away. The reality is that Dish has the best damn dvr on the planet; and it is not effected by the law-suit. The 722/622 Vip series rocks.

:):up:up

Alaska Experiment? What is this program we speak of?

Discover, Out of the Wild -- like Survivor, but real, and nobody gets voted out. Goal is to make it make to civilization after being dumped 70 miles or more into the central Alaskan wilderness. Its a great show.

.
Do you really want to compare the sports packages and RSNs?
I think Dish is burying itself.


Dodger ... for me the multi sports pack gives me what I need. It gives me Fox North, Fox Midwest and Comcast Chicago. For 5.95 it blows away Direct. Could care less about the expensive sports packages of D*. So yes I will compare sports packages. E* beats D*for me. Name a channel D*would give me that E* doesn't in sports? Remember I am a Twins and Cubs fan. Oh by the way it sure is nice seeing the Cubs in HD on WGN. How does itl ook on D*?

Temporarily taking the lead is not exactly what I would consider an arse kicking. Considering their sub loss, I don't think many others would consider it an arse kicking either. I consider it an Arse kicking. Huge subscriber gains are from D* bait and switch tactics. Give a new customer free HD DVRs and 3 months free premiums and/ or HD with a movie star,or singer promoting D*, Suck them in, Then not give them SH%^ for the other 21 months Except Huge Upgrade costs along with a HUGE BILL. As I said Wait , Just Wait.;););)
D* looks good in the short term with offers, But what then?. IF D* was an HD leader, They would have plained better and E* wouldn't have more local Markets ,more REAL HD National channel.

"Most Dish subs could care less about the Sports"
It is inaacurate and uprovable statements like the above that screw up threads.
PLease do not post things that you cannot support with links that support statements.
BTW, I am huge sports fan and I most likely have had Dish longer than most people on here. Since 1997.

Now just because YOU get all the games you want does not mean it is ok for the rst of us to want our provider to at least take an oppotunity to serve it's customers in a differnt manner. Agree 100%

Been thinking about this a lot -- Bob, you are acting like a troll with even starting this thread. You have bad feelings for Dish, a former employer, but most of your argument is based in nothing but hot air. Dish has been kicking DirecTV's arse for the past six months, and pretty much everybody knows it.

I don't see what the purpose of this thread is. In fact, it probably deserves to be in the War-zone, if anywhere. I Agree 1000%
Troll??? Yea I'd say so since he did post this right in the E* forums, and last I checked he had U verse.
Now there is a Winning Provider! HA HA HA:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::haha:haha:haha
Where can I get this again?

Discover, Out of the Wild -- like Survivor, but real, and nobody gets voted out. Goal is to make it make to civilization after being dumped 70 miles or more into the central Alaskan wilderness. Its a great show.
Sounds cool.

Temporarily taking the lead is not exactly what I would consider an arse kicking. Considering their sub loss, I don't think many others would consider it an arse kicking either.

Thought more about this. Have had HD for 3 years this April; for the first 2 years, Dish was the HD programming leader. All the Directv guys were constantly bemoaning the lack of hd, except sports, waiting for the new Sats; then Directv had its 8 months of glory, where it got all sorts of exclusive deals, and Dish somehow went into dormancy with no new programming. Of course much of the new "HD" chanels that Directv had were little more than place-holders, as there was little to no HD on them (since the providers were not really doing a lot of HD), but DirecTV had the lead.

THEN... Dish came back with a vengeance, switched to mpeg4, and has introduced pretty much everything Directv has, as well as some more. So, I just don't see your argument, if anything, over the past 3 years, dish, not Directv, has been the HD leader. Add to it such things as external HDD support (and I am not talking about being able to swap out internal drives, but build an archive like I have, of more than 2TB of movies in HD); the new ability to tie-in Sling to the forthcoming 922, AND what is without a doubt, the best DVR on the planet, in the 722, and I think I am quite comfortable with the claim of Dish being the HD leader again.

Where Dish trails is sports; yup, no doubt. But I am not interested in paying a boat-load of money for 16 weeks of NFL; and baseball bores me to tears. (Sorry, DodgerKing, obviously it doesn't bore you- ;) ), and it would be nice if Dish were to provide 24/7 HD RSNs, but even there it ain't gonna matter a snot, if the RSN isn't broadcasting the games in HD.

In the end, though, I don't have any insecurities about my provider; and have no ill-will towards Directv. If I were a baseball and football nut, I'd most certainly have Directv. But I am a movie nut, and for that, my ever-growing archive of HD films, rocks.

AND I still think Bob's initial claims are way over-blown. :)

Thought more about this. Have had HD for 3 years this April; for the first 2 years, Dish was the HD programming leader. All the Directv guys were constantly bemoaning the lack of hd, except sports, waiting for the new Sats; then Directv had its 8 months of glory, where it got all sorts of exclusive deals, and Dish somehow went into dormancy with no new programming. Of course much of the new "HD" chanels that Directv had were little more than place-holders, as there was little to no HD on them (since the providers were not really doing a lot of HD), but DirecTV had the lead.

. :)Exactly ! The only HD leader D* ever was
Leader in HD sports.
Leader in HD channels with no HD content.
Leader in Higest price HD eqipment lease costs.
Leader in POS HD DVRS

.
Do you really want to compare the sports packages and RSNs?
I think Dish is burying itself.


Dodger ... for me the multi sports pack gives me what I need. It gives me Fox North, Fox Midwest and Comcast Chicago. For 5.95 it blows away Direct. Could care less about the expensive sports packages of D*. So yes I will compare sports packages. E* beats D*for me. Name a channel D*would give me that E* doesn't in sports? Remember I am a Twins and Cubs fan. Oh by the way it sure is nice seeing the Cubs in HD on WGN. How does itl ook on D*?
HD RSNs?

Besides, that is not the point. The topic of the thread is why is Dish failing as a whole, not why scot likes Dish better than Direct. So if you want to compare a nationwide sports package, Direct not only has more to offer for more subs, but even in their basic sports pack (without the extra league packages), Direct subs (unlike Dish subs) will be able to watch out of market RSNs in HD (outside of pro games). Their local RSN is also available in HD outside of games as well, unlike Dish.

Of course the real selling point that seperates the two is the fact that Direct is able to offer sports packages that Dish is not able to offer. As a whole, in the theme of why Dish has failed nationwide, the sports packages are a huge advantage for Direct.

How do the Cubs look in HD here? Great. Since most games are on CSN, those of us with Direct outside of the Chicago area (Which is most of us) are able to watch more Cub games in HD than those with Dish outside of Chicago. And if it is not, I can usually find the game in HD on the opposing teams feed. I only recall one time all year not being able to see the Cubs in HD. How many times will those with Dish outside of Chicago be able to see the Cubs in HD? Seldom.

Thought more about this. Have had HD for 3 years this April; for the first 2 years, Dish was the HD programming leader. All the Directv guys were constantly bemoaning the lack of hd, except sports, waiting for the new Sats; then Directv had its 8 months of glory, where it got all sorts of exclusive deals, and Dish somehow went into dormancy with no new programming. Of course much of the new "HD" chanels that Directv had were little more than place-holders, as there was little to no HD on them (since the providers were not really doing a lot of HD), but DirecTV had the lead.

THEN... Dish came back with a vengeance, switched to mpeg4, and has introduced pretty much everything Directv has, as well as some more. So, I just don't see your argument, if anything, over the past 3 years, dish, not Directv, has been the HD leader. Add to it such things as external HDD support (and I am not talking about being able to swap out internal drives, but build an archive like I have, of more than 2TB of movies in HD); the new ability to tie-in Sling to the forthcoming 922, AND what is without a doubt, the best DVR on the planet, in the 722, and I think I am quite comfortable with the claim of Dish being the HD leader again.

Where Dish trails is sports; yup, no doubt. But I am not interested in paying a boat-load of money for 16 weeks of NFL; and baseball bores me to tears. (Sorry, DodgerKing, obviously it doesn't bore you- ;) ), and it would be nice if Dish were to provide 24/7 HD RSNs, but even there it ain't gonna matter a snot, if the RSN isn't broadcasting the games in HD.

In the end, though, I don't have any insecurities about my provider; and have no ill-will towards Directv. If I were a baseball and football nut, I'd most certainly have Directv. But I am a movie nut, and for that, my ever-growing archive of HD films, rocks.

AND I still think Bob's initial claims are way over-blown. :)I just don't agree that the few extra HD channels, regardless of how long they have had them up, an arse kicking. Especially when the numbers for pretty much everything else says otherwise.

Too me it is like saying 6 flags kicks Disneyland's arse because they have more roller coasters and faster roller coasters, even though Disneyland is a much bigger tourists attraction, makes more money, draws more people, and has a more well known name. (Keep in mind that Disney's profits have decreased more than 6 flags as well.)

Like 6 flags, Dish has more of the same type of programming (more HD channels of the same type of SD channels on both providers and more HD premiums of the same type of premiums on Direct and Dish). 6 Flags has pretty much more of the same type of rides (different versions of fast and thrilling roller coasters).

Like Disneyland, Direct has more unique offerings. Packages that no other provider offers or packages that Dish does not offer. Their roller coasters may not be as exciting right now, but there are rides and entertainment that no other theme park offers. It is these unique packages that are enough to seperate them from the others.

Again dodger, When I think of Out of market seasonal Sports packs,
1 member comes to mind . "DodgerKing":D:D

Its a Known Fact seasonal Sports pack aren't that popular.
Less then 2 Million NFL customers
Less the 900,000 MLB customers
NBA and NHL Not sure ,But I doubt Highly Much over a Million each.
So out of at least 75 million TV subscribers in the USA Seasonal Sports packs I don't think are that popular anyway. HBO alone more then likly has more subscribers then all of the sports packs put together.:p

DK - those packages appeal to some, but not all. i.e., sports, and I already conceded that one point. AND I don't care about it.

As far as HD programming over-all, outside of sports, Dish has led for all except about 8 months of the past 3 years, and to deny that is to live in a fantasy world of the Cubs winning the world series.

And you completely ignored my other points, like external HDD archiving, the stellar speed, performance, and features of the 722, never-mind the forthcoming built in sling player (which truly is the ultimate productivity killer on the planet :D

And you completely ignored my other points, like external HDD archiving, the stellar speed, performance, and features of the 722, never-mind the forthcoming built in sling player (which truly is the ultimate productivity killer on the planet :D Plus way more Interactive NATIONAL channels then D*

Again dodger, When I think of Out of market seasonal Sports packs,
1 member comes to mind . "DodgerKing":D:D

Its a Known Fact seasonal Sports pack aren't that popular.
Less then 2 Million NFL customers
Less the 900,000 MLB customers
NBA and NHL Not sure ,But I doubt Highly Much over a Million each.
So out of at least 75 million TV subscribers in the USA Seasonal Sports packs I don't think are that popular anyway. HBO alone more then likly has more subscribers then all of the sports packs put together.:p


Plus, Dish has NBA and NHL.

And if we are talking un-edited premium movie channels... scrolling through my epg, I find...

8 HBO
4 Max
3 SHO
1 TMC
6 Starz/encore
HDNet Movies
MGM
UHD (but since they now have commercials, I rarely count it anymre)

For me, life is fine. :D


And on that... I'm going back to watching Happy Gilmore on HDNMV. :D

"Rocky" you need to come to the war zone more often .:D:D I'm not used to having much help Defending E* Honor. Most of time have to fight off 3-5 D* subscribers.:rant::D:D. But its fun.

Plus, Dish has NBA and NHL.

And if we are talking un-edited premium movie channels... scrolling through my epg, I find...

8 HBO
4 Max
3 SHO
1 TMC
6 Starz/encore
HDNet Movies
MGM
UHD (but since they now have commercials, I rarely count it anymre)

For me, life is fine. :D

And on that... I'm going back to watching Happy Gilmore on HDNMV. :DThat is my point. Direct has some or all of those as well. So what exactly is the real appeal that makes Dish kick their arse? This so called arse kicking sure hasn't convinced the judges (aka the subs).

"Rocky" you need to come to the war zone more often .:D:D I'm not used to having much help Defending E* Honor. Most of time have to fight off 3-5 D* subscribers.:rant::D:D. But its fun.
I agree. It is also nice being able to have a civil discussion with another E sub that does not resort to personal attacks. :up

Plus, Dish has NBA and NHL.

And if we are talking un-edited premium movie channels... scrolling through my epg, I find...

8 HBO
4 Max
3 SHO
1 TMC
6 Starz/encore
HDNet Movies
MGM
UHD (but since they now have commercials, I rarely count it anymre)

For me, life is fine. :D


And on that... I'm going back to watching Happy Gilmore on HDNMV. :D And thats Just the HD versions. E* still has SD versions D* doesn't

I agree. It is also nice being able to have a civil discussion with another E sub that does not resort to personal attacks. :up:D:D Why what ever do you mean?:D:D:D

Again dodger, When I think of Out of market seasonal Sports packs,
1 member comes to mind . "DodgerKing":D:D
Only making the point to show how one is different from another. It just happens to be sports. If one was the best in pottery making packages and the pottering making packages helped attract new subs, I would mention that as well. :p


Its a Known Fact seasonal Sports pack aren't that popular.
Less then 2 Million NFL customers
Less the 900,000 MLB customers
NBA and NHL Not sure ,But I doubt Highly Much over a Million each.
So out of at least 75 million TV subscribers in the USA Seasonal Sports packs I don't think are that popular anyway. HBO alone more then likly has more subscribers then all of the sports packs put together.:pDon't dissagree. In fact, I believe I have made that point as well. But, even though the packages themselves may not be as popular as the premiums packages, unlike the premium packages, they are exclusive or unique in some way. Because of this, they give one provider something the other doesn't, which only helps them attract more subs. Those few million extra subs are what probably made the difference in Direct having many more subs than Dish. Keep in mind, every one additional sub one gets, means that the other possibly has one less as well. So an additional 1 million subs for one provider can also mean 1 million less for the other (making a net difference between the two providers of 2 million).

And you completely ignored my other points, like external HDD archiving, the stellar speed, performance, and features of the 722, never-mind the forthcoming built in sling player (which truly is the ultimate productivity killer on the planet :DOf course, Dish is kicking Directs arse in DVR performance. The VIP is better than the HR. But the HRs can do things that the VIPs cannot do as well.

Do you really think that is a deal breaker when it comes to one company failing or succeeding, or even attracting subs (which again is the topic of this thread)? Most people don't even know what Sling is nor do they care about all of the features of a DVR. They just want to watch programs and record them for later.

And thats Just the HD versions. E* still has SD versions D* doesn't
More of the same types of roller coasters. Yet, Six Flags still doesn't draw more tourists than Disneyland.

Because of this, they give one provider something the other doesn't, which only helps them attract more subs. Those few million extra subs are what probably made the difference in Direct having many more subs than Dish. Keep in mind, every one additional sub one gets, means that the other possibly has one less as well. So an additional 1 million subs for one provider can also mean 1 million less for the other (making a net difference between the two providers of 2 million). I agree. Someone looking for Satellite thats a Huge Baseball or Football fan only has one choice, and he or she will compromise not having the most national HD or Movie packs to get what they want.
Same with me.
I had D* back in 1995-1997. It was OK ,but no locals just wasn't working. So Went to Cable from 1997- 2003.
Well Cable was a Joke and HD was Catching my Eyes quite often.
I almost chose VOOM., But very limited of childrens channels and no locals make me look to D*! Glad I didn't because look at them now:o
So I went back to D*. Never even Heard of Dish network, How bad was that?

But D* was good for a few years untill I leased my First H20 for $199 .
That thing was Not what I expected, and with less then 10 HD channels, I was getting really unhappy.
So about a Year later I could finally Muster Up the $299 for my First HR 20 Yes Leased and, It got worse. This thing was a HUGE POS!. I called D* every other week just to bitch about it,and wanted to get out of my contract.
Now at this point (December 2006) I'm thinking about getting Dish network even more . They had my locals They wanted to give me 2 HD DVRs for $49 dollars. Great, so I called D* and they said Well we can give you another HD DVR for $99, Plus we have a Huge HD line up coming this fall. OK I said Deal.
Well 7 short months later I got Tired of Waiting for HD and I wanted it now. So I got E*. Had them Side by side for about a year. D* PQ was better, But E* equipment and HD lineup was much better.
Sports wasn't a factor for me, Movies and DVR function/Price ,WAS. So I made My decision based on that , I'll take a small drop in PQ,for more content,and I'll take a better DVR over and Sports that D* offered.
So a compromise for both satellite companys has to be made, or you'll end up with both providers, which is by no means Cheap.

More of the same types of roller coasters. Yet, Six Flags still doesn't draw more tourists than Disneyland.

Well, I can get a season pass to Six Flags for $70. A trip to WDW or DL would set me back thousands. I love Disney, for sure, but its a once every 5 year kind of deal.


I still don't think Dish is failing. I look at what Dish has done in the past year, and see a company that is rebounding. It had a rough year prior to that with sats failing, and not even reaching orbit, but we are seeing more and more innovation from Dish; and just wait for that 922. I have seen it in action at CES. Its a sweet machine, that runs circles around the 722. Alas, DirecTV didn't even both to show up at the show. :(



And in the end, this is what I want -- DIsh to succeed; which pushed DirecTV to innovate, which pushes Dish... and then we all win.

i.e., DirecTV was first to offer remote programming of the dvr; NOW Dish offers it; Dish will up the ante with Slinging the tv (and being able to sling not to a computer but to another tv in the house!). This is all good stuff.

Of course, Dish is kicking Directs arse in DVR performance. The VIP is better than the HR. But the HRs can do things that the VIPs cannot do as well.

Do you really think that is a deal breaker when it comes to one company failing or succeeding, or even attracting subs (which again is the topic of this thread)? Most people don't even know what Sling is nor do they care about all of the features of a DVR. They just want to watch programs and record them for later.

I am not certain what the topic of the thread is, since it has morphed. Considering that NO ONE has really made any good arguments backing up Bob's claims. ;) :D

Failing? That's funny, I thought dish increased profits.

"Rocky" you need to come to the war zone more often .:D:D I'm not used to having much help Defending E* Honor. Most of time have to fight off 3-5 D* subscribers.:rant::D:D. But its fun.

Well, to be honest, I am procrastinating from grading 30 exams... this is a helluva lot more fun than doing that, OR trying to moderate the cesspool of the tivo thread. :D :D ;)

But we should always be able to debate without attacking each other. That's what makes this place SatGuys. :)

Well, I can get a season pass to Six Flags for $70. A trip to WDW or DL would set me back thousands. I love Disney, for sure, but its a once every 5 year kind of deal.
It all comes down to preference. Dish just needs to do a better job of informing others of this preference.


I still don't think Dish is failing. I look at what Dish has done in the past year, and see a company that is rebounding. It had a rough year prior to that with sats failing, and not even reaching orbit, but we are seeing more and more innovation from Dish; and just wait for that 922. I have seen it in action at CES. Its a sweet machine, that runs circles around the 722. Alas, DirecTV didn't even both to show up at the show. :(
I don't think they are failing either. They are just not doing a good job at attracting more subs currently (which can lead to failure in the future).


And in the end, this is what I want -- DIsh to succeed; which pushed DirecTV to innovate, which pushes Dish... and then we all win.

i.e., DirecTV was first to offer remote programming of the dvr; NOW Dish offers it; Dish will up the ante with Slinging the tv (and being able to sling not to a computer but to another tv in the house!). This is all good stuff.
Agree 100%

It all comes down to preference. Dish just needs to do a better job of informing others of this preference.

I don't think they are failing either. They are just not doing a good job at attracting more subs currently (which can lead to failure in the future).

Agree 100%

And on that... Six Flags America Gurnee, IL, next Saturday. :D

7 nights at the Grand Floridian, WDW, (paid for on my wife's company's dime), next June.

In the meantime, plenty of tv to watch. ;) :D

I would like to see the two companies merge.

That would be terrible, look at the Sirius/XM disaster.

As a D* user I don't sub to any of the sport packages and I wish D* had the premiums like E*.

The only reason I don't switch to E* is because there was a time when E* kept turning off channels, I don't want that from my provider.

That would be terrible, look at the Sirius/XM disaster.
No doubt. I lost all of my favorite rock stations (I now have to listen to the worse Sirius rock stations) and they now charge me for streaming XM over the internet (something that used to be free).

There are a few difference.

First, there are no other options for paid radio, so the merger of the only two satellite radio carriers had a bigger impact due to the lack of competition. Second, both providers originally had their own unique stations (except for some talk and news stations).

With TV, there is competition from cable, fiber, and internet. (you can get radio from these sources as well, but it is not the same as you cannot take cable in the car or on your person). With satellite, both companies carry the same channels for the most part, so a merger would not force one company to drop their stations. The only thing that would happen is that they will now be able to have more stations.

With that said, I too would not want to see a merger. I want as much successful competition as possible.

As a D* user I don't sub to any of the sport packages and I wish D* had the premiums like E*.

The only reason I don't switch to E* is because there was a time when E* kept turning off channels, I don't want that from my provider.
Direct will be getting more premiums next year, IMO

Direct will be getting more premiums next year, IMO

D* better add some more HD premiums by early next year. Currently D* has some spare bandwidth that they aren't using. Maybe they are keeping some in reserve. But once D12 is launched in September and goes live hopefully around December 2009/January 2010 D* will have no excuse not to give us some of the missing HD. Such as ESPNU, Travel, WGN and HD premiums. But after the dud that D11 was last year I'm not overly optimistic D* that will come through.