I am trying to decide between two PCI receiver cards. One has DSS support and the other (which is cheaper) doesn't. Are there any unencrypted DSS broadcasts that are even worth looking for? Dish Network only has a couple FTA (NASA and Angel One), and I am assuming the FTA DSS broadcasts (if any) are about the same. I don't want to spend more money on a card with extra features that I won't even use.

DSS is used by DirecTV. There may be a few unencrypted banner or promo channels up there, but probably nothing worth spending extra money on.

A DVB-S2 capable card would be my choice.

The last time I checked with my Twinhan 1020a, all audio on Directv was not encrypted.

How many FTA channels are there that use DVB-S2? I am a poor college student and would rather buy a cheaper Twinhan 1020a or 102g. The 1020a has the DSS support, while the 102g does not. I have found some cheap ones on ebay and would rather buy one of these cheaper ones to use until I graduate (next May) and have more money for nicer equipment. So, unless DVB-S2 is going to be standard among all FTA channels within the next year, I would rather just upgrade to DVB-S2 capable equipment later and buy cheap now :)

The last time I checked with my Twinhan 1020a, all audio on Directv was not encrypted.

When was the last time you checked? And when you say audio do you mean radio/music channels? I think it would definitely be worth if I could pick up a bunch of music..

I just checked 101. All audio is FTA, including channel audio and XM music channels. I'm using TSReader with DSS to DVB Converter plugin on a Twinhan 1020a.

I just checked 101. All audio is FTA, including channel audio and XM music channels. I'm using TSReader with DSS to DVB Converter plugin on a Twinhan 1020a.

If the 1020a supports DSS, why do you need a DSS to DVB converter? and since there is such a thing, would I be able to buy the cheaper twinhan 102g and just use that kind of converter? and a reminder...the 102g does not have DSS support.

The plugin is needed to make TSReader work with the DSS data. The Twinhan 102g won't be able to lock the DSS signals. Also apparently there are different versions of the Twinhan 1020a card and some will not lock DSS signals. More discussion here:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-pc-dvb-discussion/166265-twinhan-1020a-tsreader-lite-parse-pids-directv-stream.html

Ok, so why is it that none of the XM stations are encrypted? I find it sort of odd that Directv wouldn't encrypt them or XM wouldn't require Directv to do it. Is it a mistake on Directv's end? I would hate to buy the 1020a for all these XM stations if they are going to all be encrypted in a month and then it would serve me no more purpose than a cheaper 102g. However, if the XM stations are never encrypted, then I would be more willing to spend a few extra dollars on the 1020a.

They've been that way for while... think of how many people have DSS capable PC cards and the software to play it. Not worth it to them with no video. Reminds me of the VideoCipher analog days...none of the video was encrypted. ;)

You can also play the DSS audio with the Audiorip plugin for TSREADER. This might actually give you access to more of the audio channels, because for some reason, at least the version of DSS2DVB that I've been using is starting to miss channels. I have no idea of why it's doing this, but when I lock on a transponder without the plugin, I can count the A/V streams, and when I start up DSS2DVB, there are often some missing. But Audiorip seems to be more likely to find them for some reason.

The DSS2DVB web page went off the web a couple years ago, so unless someone knows of where it went, it might be difficult to get the plugin anymore.

The one nice thing about DSS2DVB is that at least with the last version that came out before the web page went away and the newer versions of TSREADER, you could stream the audio over your LAN. With AudioRip, you have to listen on the computer.

So, apparently, the DSS audio broadcasts have always been FTA? I'm kind of shocked that I haven't heard anything about this before. Out of all the threads I have read, I never once saw anything about being able to receive XM stuff for free as long as you have a DSS receiver. Is the typical receiver not DSS capable thus leading to few people talking about this topic? How about the LNB? Are DSS signals linear H&V?

DVB FTA receivers can't lock DSS signals. I don't believe the audio is in the clear if you use a Directv receiver. You would have to subscribe to receive XM radio channels. Only the Twinhan 1020a and Genpix Skywalker can receive DSS. So not many people have the ability to receive the audio. I have no idea why they never encrypted the audio. Directv signals are circular. As with any FTA signal, if it is FTA today, it may not be tomorrow.

I'm not sure when the meaning of "DSS" changed.
"DSS"- Digital Satellite System- was the name of the original receiver/dish combo used with Directv and USSB programming.
Now it seems to be used as a term (like DVB) for the signal transmission method. Not sure when or why that got started. :confused:

I have been trying to listen to DSS audio now. I can lock the transponder in TSReader, but it does not show any PIDs. Do I need the DSS-to-DVB plugin? If so, could someone post it or email me. I have searched google for 2 hours and every link seems to be dead...

Yes you need the plugin. It looks like it is still available here:
RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting

sweet, thanks for the link.

The one nice thing about DSS2DVB is that at least with the last version that came out before the web page went away and the newer versions of TSREADER, you could stream the audio over your LAN. With AudioRip, you have to listen on the computer.What exact versions of each package you're talking about?

What exact versions of each package you're talking about?

For a good discussion of the DSS2DVB thing, look at:

http://forums.satforums.com/SatForumMaster/common/messages.php?bpr=1&msg=12723.1#12723.1

Rod, the author of TSREADER took away the screen shots showing how it worked, but you can read about it there. There is also some discussion about the legality of a secondary capability of the program, that supposedly would allow you to view programming that you've subscribed to on a computer, but from what I read, this was only possible on the older DTV receivers.
I think that the "new" version of DSS2DVB was something like _0_2_0 , and it came out around early January of 2007. About this same time, TSREADER came out with a version which would allow streaming unencrypted audio from a program that had encrypted video, which made it very convenient to listen to the unencrypted audio, since otherwise, you had to make manual audio only channels with just the audio, and the older version of the DSS2DVB didn't work well with TSREADER, and you couldn't make manual channels for some reason.
However within a very short period of when the version 2 of DSS2DVB came out, the DSS2DVB web page suddenly dissappeared, possibly because of the questionable legality of the secondary application or possibly the guy might have been bought out by DTV, but whatever the reason, I never saw any other source of the program or newer versions, even though the basic plugin was quite useful.

TSREADER came out with a version which would allow streaming unencrypted audio from a program that had encrypted video, which made it very convenient to listen to the unencrypted audio, since otherwise, you had to make manual audio only channels with just the audioThanks.
It looks like photoman76's link above leads to DSS2DVB 0.3.0. Sadly, Rod seems to be completely unreachable to anyone, and don't make plugins for new cards, and neither a universal one. Wanted to clarify, how exactly you add in your receiver and/or PC Card (using what program?) Audio ONLY channels, when the actual signal is Audio/Video.

A bit off topic, but relevant: does AZBox allow to receive an Audio or Audio/Video stream over Ethernet (streamed in what formats?), tune in & decode it if required and play via TV and AV Receiver?

Thanks.
It looks like photoman76's link above leads to DSS2DVB 0.3.0.

Thanks. Somehow I missed that post. I just downloaded it, and it seems to work a lot better than the version I was using, with respect to picking up all the channels in a mux. I notice that it also acknowledges that the web page went away, but mentions a place to contact the author, although I'm not familiar with the site mentioned.


Sadly, Rod seems to be completely unreachable to anyone, and don't make plugins for new cards, and neither a universal one.

Yes, Rod hasn't seemed to have supported the regular TSREADER much in the past year. I think I renewed my license last September (he DOES respond to messages relative to buying the program), and I don't think there has been a new version since then. He doesn't write the plugins, that is for 3rd party people. What people are asking for is "sources" for new cards, such as a better one for the TT3200, etc. He's apparently very busy with the Pro version.


Wanted to clarify, how exactly you add in your receiver and/or PC Card (using what program?) Audio ONLY channels, when the actual signal is Audio/Video.


Most receivers, and programs for PC cards allow you to create manual channels. Usually you just need to know the audio PID, and the PCR PID, which is usually the video channel, and even if the video itself is encrypted, I think that the PCR info is not encrypted. With the pre-2007 TSREADER, this is what I usually did to be able to play unencrypted audio from a channel that had encrypted video. However with the newer versions, I can just click on the program, and tell it to play via VLC, and the audio will play, without any need to create a manual channel.




A bit off topic, but relevant: does AZBox allow to receive an Audio or Audio/Video stream over Ethernet (streamed in what formats?), tune in & decode it if required and play via TV and AV Receiver?

I'd like to find out more about this myself. I know it can do it with internet type sites, so it should be possible to stream from TSREADER or VLC, but I don't think that it currently is set up to do that, unless I'm missing something. I'm sure that eventually someone will figure out how to do that, or convince the Azbox people to make it more user friendly.

Thanks B.J.
I'm glad to point your attention to this new soft release, since you help a lot by providing in-depth accurate answers to non-common questions. I'm still curious, if TSReader Pro has its "sources" or universal driver continuosly upgraded for new cards, and how to request such an upgrade if this guy is out of touch? As to AZBox, the manufacturer's contact person (not one of distributors with similar websites) is unusually responsive, and seems to be fast catching useful ideas. He seems to be not a regular hired guy, but one of the owners in this family business.

Usually Rod creating the drivers if the manufacturer provide API to him.

What will probably happen is Direct TV will encrypt the music just like Dish did so I wouldn't buy into it. There is no free lunch for long. Just like with PowerVu and Dc2.

OK guys.. Let's keep some of this stuff quiet. We know that technically the audio isn't currently encrypted on the 101 bird, and the available audio channels aren't listed on Lyngsat. Let's not start making posts that the search engines will find. I am kind of enjoying listening to the audio :) I'd hate for it to get encrypted. In particular I'm referring to a specific audio service that was listed by name in one of the earlier posts. YES it is available. Let's just not start openly discussing.

(Just my opinion)

This should be moved to WUT. How bout it ICE?

This should be moved to WUT. How bout it ICE? Well, if you move it there, don't expect me to respond, as I have no access there, and don't want access there.

However, one last question before it moves...
I'm curious whether anyone has noticed that this DSStoDVB thing seems to only work well on the main DTV sats, like 101, 119, etc, and not so well on spot beams, and doesn't work hardly at all on the 72.5 sat. Seems like either the author has assumed some info about these sats, or else these other sats don't transmit PMT data, ie perhaps they rely on their receivers hitting one of the other sats to load that info???
Actually, the old versions of DSS2DVB seem to work better on these other sats/beams than the new version. And yet AudioRip seems to pick up the audio from which ever sat you're on.

If anyone has the latest version of this program, Ill gladly host it at my place. PM me with where I can get it. :)

goaliebob there is a link on the first page of this thread to a DSStoDVB download page. Is that what you are looking for? It would be awesome if you hosted it. No telling how much longer it will be available at the posted link.

Yes I allready have uploaded that at my place, Its my understanding that there is a version greater than 0.3.0

Let's not start making posts that the search engines will find.
I read about this several years ago.
Not exactly the biggest secret, but not exactly discussed in public a lot, either.
Those who knew about it, kept it on the down-low.

AND, every post to SatGuy's is instantly published to Google, so once you say it, you can search it.
As for internet caches, they'd have it, too.
So, kinda hard to un-ring the bell.

Hmm...where did you see that there was a new version? What I got from the above posts is that 0.3.0 was the newest. I'm not saying that I'm right though :D I could have missed something...

Well, if you move it there, don't expect me to respond, as I have no access there, and don't want access there.

However, one last question before it moves...
I'm curious whether anyone has noticed that this DSStoDVB thing seems to only work well on the main DTV sats, like 101, 119, etc, and not so well on spot beams, and doesn't work hardly at all on the 72.5 sat. Seems like either the author has assumed some info about these sats, or else these other sats don't transmit PMT data, ie perhaps they rely on their receivers hitting one of the other sats to load that info???
Actually, the old versions of DSS2DVB seem to work better on these other sats/beams than the new version. And yet AudioRip seems to pick up the audio from which ever sat you're on.
Reading an author's notes you could find answers.

Hmm...where did you see that there was a new version? What I got from the above posts is that 0.3.0 was the newest. I'm not saying that I'm right though :D I could have missed something...


No its me... I thought there was one but misread it. :) So were good to go then :)

Reading an author's notes you could find answers.
I saw several comments relative to it not picking up EIT info for those sats, and one comment about the PMT data sometimes being corrupted, but I didn't notice anything about it not even showing the channels at all. I just looked again, and still don't see any mention of the behavior I'm talking about.
Ie what I'm seeing is that it didn't show ANY PMT info at all, not that the EPG info isn't there. Ie a transponder that has say 10 channels doesn't show ANY channels with this plugin. Older versions used to show all the info on many of the transponders that now miss channels, and now typically show partial PMT info, but the new version now often shows absolutely NO PMT or channel info at all.
I first noticed this behavior on G3C, where I used to get complete listings of all channels, then little by little, these transponders would show fewer and fewer channels, and less and less info on them (ie channel numbers started getting corrupted), so that now, the old version pretty much stopped working on G3C. THe new version now seems to do better on G3C, but nowhere near perfect. But on 72.5, it basically doesn't work at all.

There are a few reasons for that, some related to not using APG data and those MPG tables could be the culprit.

0.3.2 should help with some of the problems mentioned. No documentation or installer with it though.

DSStoDVB.dll (http://www.mediafire.com/?gjjiyytzidn)

Thankyou.
I agree this should be moved to WUT.

Thankyou.
I agree this should be moved to WUT.
Not really. This has been common knowledge for years. It was widely known and discussed even before DTV shut down their patch-eye gang in 2004(?) I think it was.
The audio isnt encrypted, just 'muted' for lack of a better term in their own IRDs. The audio is FTE, just not a lot of interest with everything else available. I'm not sure they even can encrypt it by just a stream change and CAM authorization. Some of their IRDs, especially the legacy units may require harware changes to rx encrypted audio.
Either way, as posted the bell cant be un-rung. If this thread causes a few, likely a very few more people decide to go to the trouble to rx FTE DSS audio, big deal. I doubt it will be worth a revamp of DTV's already oddball mode of transmission to knock out a few people. It's not that popular or that big of a deal.
BTW, a lot of PowerVu audio is FTE as well.

.

when more than one post is deleted it shows the same reason. That has been fixed ;)

Interesting topic, wonder if my AZBOX would work using the correct plugin as the DVB-S2 cards.. hmmm

when more than one post is deleted it shows the same reason. That has been fixed ;)

Thanks Ice. I understand. :)

Is it possible to hear any of Star Choice or Expressview audio only using this method?

Is it possible to hear any of Star Choice or Expressview audio only using this method?

If they are using the same type of video encryption I would assume that it would be possible. However, DirecTV uses DSS Videoguard and I think that encryption type is specific to DirecTV only. I know on 101W you can hear all the audio, but no video, on the Hotel Media package on TP 12061 and they are using Powervu.

The TSReader plug-in DOESN'T DECRYPT audio or video [FTA].

Bell uses DVB (same as Dish) and SHaw Direct uses Digicipher II

But as Smitty noted those channels are scrambled

I'm not sure when the meaning of "DSS" changed.
"DSS"- Digital Satellite System- was the name of the original receiver/dish combo used with Directv and USSB programming.
Now it seems to be used as a term (like DVB) for the signal transmission method. Not sure when or why that got started. :confused:

Directv got sued back in the 90s because someone else was already using "DSS", if it wasn't for that they probably would still call it DSS.

Bell uses DVB (same as Dish) and SHaw Direct uses Digicipher II

But as Smitty noted those channels are scrambled
There is no such poster in the thread as I did recheck now.
[Don't make a precedent to turn your nick into something unfamiliar ;).]

BTW, Bell using same Nagravision encryption as Dish, not just DVB.

There is no such poster in the thread as I did recheck now.
I was responding to Bill_KY :)

Is it possible to hear any of Star Choice or Expressview audio only using this method?



BTW, Bell using same Nagravision encryption as Dish, not just DVB.

I mentioned what standard they were using (DVB & DCII) and agreed with you that they were scrambled (all the audio on Bell). Don't know what the issue is ;)

I thought DSS was owned by Hubbard Communication. Wasn't that the premium channel pkg?

Well, that would be interesting to classify the 4DTV method of transmitting digital sat signal:

Standard Encryption Modulation
-------- ---------- --------------
DVB-S, FTA/Iredeto/Nagravision/Conax/etc, QPSK/8PSK
DVB-S2, <same>, QPSK/8PSK/16APSK/32APSK
DSS, FTA/Videoguard, QPSK
DSS-3, Videoguard, 8PSK [Ka]

4DTV(?), Digicipher II, OOPSK, I-PSK/Q-PSK,

If I missed some,please add to that.

......



I mentioned what standard they were using (DVB & DCII) and agreed with you that they were scrambled (all the audio on Bell). Don't know what the issue is ;)

BTW, not all the Bell audio is scrambled. It used to be that all the HD stuff had FTA audio, but since it looks like all the HD moved to 8PSK, that isn't available to me anymore, however there are still several SD channels on the remaining QPSK transponders that have FTA audio, and not all of them are even AC3, although mostly it's the AC3 stuff.
I think I saw a bit more than a dozen channels on Nimiq-4, and I remember seeing a few on the other Nimiq last time I went there.

I thought DSS was owned by Hubbard Communication. Wasn't that the premium channel pkg?

Hubbard owned USSB which had all the premium channels and the Viacom channels (MTV, Nick, etc). So when you had DIrecTV you could have both USSB & Directv

BJ
I think we were talking about the audio only channels

Somebody on the web mentioned the latest clear channel DSS Content Reader DSSCR 1.0.6b (www.2shared.com/file/6987843/31e6edab/dsscr_1b6_nonfinal.html). DSS-to-DVB 0.3.0 plugin of the same author was mentioned early in this thread to allow watching clear DSS channels with TSReader.

Awesome. will have to check this out.

Answering what devices support tuning clear DSS signals, TSReader Hardware Support (http://www.tsreader.com/tsreader/hardware.html) page lists some of these, including device pics.

Answering what devices support tuning clear DSS signals, TSReader Hardware Support (http://www.tsreader.com/tsreader/hardware.html) page lists some of these, including device pics.

Note that the last update to this site is 1.5 years old, so may not include newer hardware.

It might be because newer hardware developers offer only BDA drivers, or DSS signal tuning capability in some newer chipsets is turned Off on purpose in their device drivers. But the list of supporting devices above may be incomplete for sure.