I hope this isn't a duplicate post.

SPS Satellite Programming Service Inc. goes bye bye.

<Snip>

The rural American consumer - our customer base - and the company have gone through a very difficult and stressful period. The economy in rural U.S. is still in a very depressed both on an economic and financial basis which has severely impacted the Company. As a result, the Company has ceased its business effective immediately.

Thank you for your support over the years.

SPS Satellite Programming Service Inc.

November 2009

<END SNIP>

That's the first one of the 4 that went belly up.
Now one of the other ones are next either Skyvision or NPS that's it?
I guess it's 3 providors not 4 so one went out now there's only 2.
I guess Nps is next because in the way they're doing business I can tell that they are not doing that well.
Enjoy your 4dtv while you can

Just because an online reseller went belly up it don't mean the main ones NPS, SRL/Skyvision are in trouble and next. SPS was a small time NPS reseller without other entities to back them up like NPS and Skyvision. It's this doom and gloom attitude that hurts the 4DTV more than helps it. I would expect this attitude at a pro pizza board but not on a C band 4DTV friendly site. I for one will keep on supporting 4DTV and help others convert and continue to take them away from pizza and cable.

I hope your NOT accusing me of being doom and gloom. I am just reporting FACTS. As far as my opinion goes with regard to 4DTV I have none.

I subscribed with one 4DTV reseller, for one specific channel only to find out that this channel was bit starved, and then I sold my equipment.

Again just a FACT, as in the results ARE VERIFIABLE by using the scientific method.

I hope your NOT accusing me of being doom and gloom. I am just reporting FACTS. As far as my opinion goes with regard to 4DTV I have none.

I subscribed with one 4DTV reseller, for one specific channel only to find out that this channel was bit starved, and then I sold my equipment.

Again just a FACT, as in the results ARE VERIFIABLE by using the scientific method.

You are entitled to report report facts or anything you want. Im sorry that you were not happy with the channel you subscribed to. I totally agree that the G3 NPS reuplinked channels are bitstarved and have a pizza type picture quality. You seem to be basing your conclusions on that alone. Did you subscribe to the movie channels of some of the masters muxes and look at there wonderful picture quality on those? G3 makes up a small percentage of the overall picture.

As far as doom and gloom goes, it's better to promote the positive aspects of the 4DTV. Negative press be it based on opinions or facts don't help c band subscription at all. There are others at other forums on the web that promote negative, negative, negative when it comes to the 4DTV. This bad press only hurts it since bad news travels faster than good. We try to promote a positive attitude here at Satellite Guys. We all love our dishes and don't throw in the towel to something since it's outdated technology or whatever.

This whole thread started out as reporting about SPS. Most of us know about that already and smart shoppers didn't use them anyway. It progressed to NPS is next and put out a message to bail and get out of it now. Sure if you can get everyone to pull out NPS and SRL would fold there C band entity. This is the same mind games that Dish network used to sway away so many subscribers from us when they bought Superstar, Netlink, Turnervision and formed YSP.

All Im trying to say is that we need to keep a positive upbeat attitude here on Satellite Guys. There are newbies just getting there first dishes that want 4DTV's and c band subscription. This is good for the cause. When they read negative press they can get confused and may throw in the towel before they even start. The guy that got swayed with the negative press may be the next Shawn Kenny or the like promoting C band and helping to give us a better future.

Im sure quite a few here will agree with this. Let's keep it upbeat :)

All Im trying to say is that we need to keep a positive upbeat attitude here on Satellite Guys. There are newbies just getting there first dishes that want 4DTV's and c band subscription. This is good for the cause. When they read negative press they can get confused and may throw in the towel before they even start.

Ya, that may be me. I am still trying to figure out if this is worth getting into. Right now, I am finding out that there is no real need for a HDD-200. Funny how HD is the big thing now (I get mine from OTA for my local networks) but on the big dish HD is all but gone. Anyway, I just this weekend got a 10' mesh so still exploring if to go further.

> As far as doom and gloom goes, it's better to promote the positive aspects of the 4DTV.

Its better to tell the truth and present information so a decision based on facts can be made.

That said I, I love C Band, KU Band and FTA and would recommend it without any hesitation.

I'm not about trashing C band but it's the reality here.
I am a 4dtv subscriber and I have NPS I have Digital Essential, Hits Package,Movie package,And Denver 8
I've been a subscriber since March 2009 but they themselves have send me an offer MULTIPLE times to switch to dishnetwork.
So they themselves don't want me subscribing to their service like they want to get rid of us.
I think they don't have any profit from us so they want to get rid off us and close this thing right now.
Because I mean why do they promote the small dish service so much?
If your a Chevy dealer you won't mail all chevy owners an offer to buy a Toyota.
I know most of these channels have better quality then dishnet I used to have dishnet too but unfortunatly the young people of today have a way of thinking that they should buy what's more commercialized and not something that is not promoted that often.
The same thing is happening to car radios too.
Everybody has Xm or Sirius so nobody listen to fm anymore and since nobody OWNS the fm radio nobody can make a commercial that says hey listen to FM so they buy what they hear from commercials.
It's the same with C band.
Nobody owns C band so nobody is gonna advertise it so everybody goes with dishnet and Directv and forget about c band.
That's the future of this country.
Soon our tv is gonna be controled by one company and radio by the other and we can't listen to any free radio's anymore for everything else we're gonna have to pay.
Even cd's are not gonna be like it is today they are working on a technology right now that's gonna make it in a way that when you buy a cd you're gonna have to pay a fee to ACTIVATE it each time you wanna listen to the cd.

Its better to tell the truth and present information so a decision based on facts can be made.



Could I inquire to where you got all your facts from? And state each one with it's source. How does this impact NPS or SRL with bad press about the 4DTV and the sky's going dark tomorrow. Or is some of what were reading in as fact are just someones opinions or hearsay from looking in there crystal ball.

Regardless of what ever some say is happening. I enjoy my 4DTV and programming. I have been hearing rumors of it's all over tomorrow for quite a few years now. Guess what... it's still here, with new people getting into it all the time. Can't be dying as fast as some pro pizza think. :eek:

I
I am a 4dtv subscriber and I have NPS I have Digital Essential, Hits Package,Movie package,And Denver 8
I've been a subscriber since March 2009 but they themselves have send me an offer MULTIPLE times to switch to dishnetwork.
So they themselves don't want me subscribing to their service like they want to get rid of us.


I have been a subscriber with NPS continuous from 1992 to present. I have never been called or sent anything on Dish network from them. They must like you or something. :rolleyes: Guess they don't bother us old timers :D

Could I inquire to where you got all your facts from? And state each one with it's source. How does this impact NPS or SRL with bad press about the 4DTV and the sky's going dark tomorrow. Or is some of what were reading in as fact are just someones opinions or hearsay from looking in there crystal ball.

Regardless of what ever some say is happening. I enjoy my 4DTV and programming. I have been hearing rumors of it's all over tomorrow for quite a few years now. Guess what... it's still here, with new people getting into it all the time. Can't be dying as fast as some pro pizza think. :eek:

The problem is 4DTV is not evolving like everything else is. You wouldn't go out and buy VHS tapes instead of a DVD. Would you? Personally, i don't think NPS or SRL have earned the right to even sell the programming anymore. Look what they've done to it? Oh yeah, "Nothing!" Except raise the prices. To where nobody even wants to buy it anymore. If they want good money for programming drop the G3 and Hits uplinks and bring on the "real" HD that new equipment will get. Otherwise forget it. Unless you only want to sub to a really small package or a channel or 2. Spoken from a diehard 4DTV fan who lost patience and is tired of waiting. :D

>Could I inquire to where you got all your facts from?

>And state each one with it's source.

1. Fact Number #1 (As stated before) I purchased a 4DTV receiver. <-- Verifiable

2. I wanted to watch ONE channel (Cartoon Network). <-- Verifiable

3. I ordered this ONE channel from a seller of this particular channel. (A reuplinker) <-- Verifiable

4. After having the service for three months. I and others noticed and verified that the picture was bit starved. <-- Verifiable

5. I made a choice to NOT renew. <-- Verifiable

6. I sold my equipment. <-- Verifiable

How does this impact NPS or SRL? <-- This is asking an opinion, which as I said before is NOT my intent. My reports are purely factual, so as such my opinion matters little.



...and the sky's going dark tomorrow. <-- I have NEVER said the sky is going dark.

But feel free to REREAD all my posts.

I don't know what the future holds for the 4dtv.

I dropped Dish and went with 4dtv for about 6 months because I was tired of paying dish prices to watch a handful of channels. The 4dtv was nice, but a lot of the channels I wanted were reuplinked and the picture wasn't all that hot. Also you can't just cherry pick the reuplinked channels and get only the ones you want, so you have to get a package.

My final solution was to stop subscribing to any television. Do I miss the channels I wanted? I did at first, but not anymore. I find that between the internet, my dvd/blu-ray collection, through the mail rental service for $10/month, OTA, and FTA I can find something to entertain me as far as television goes. If there's nothing on that I want to watch, oh well, more incentive to do something productive. :)

I also enjoy having the money back in my pocket by living leaner. I have to prune down the cell phone bill next :P

> My final solution was to stop subscribing to any television. Do I miss the channels I wanted? I did at first, but not anymore.

I agree 100%

>Could I inquire to where you got all your facts from?

>And state each one with it's source.

1. Fact Number #1 (As stated before) I purchased a 4DTV receiver. <-- Verifiable

2. I wanted to watch ONE channel (Cartoon Network). <-- Verifiable

3. I ordered this ONE channel from a seller of this particular channel. (A reuplinker) <-- Verifiable

4. After having the service for three months. I and others noticed and verified that the picture was bit starved. <-- Verifiable

5. I made a choice to NOT renew. <-- Verifiable

6. I sold my equipment. <-- Verifiable

How does this impact NPS or SRL? <-- This is asking an opinion, which as I said before is NOT my intent. My reports are purely factual, so as such my opinion matters little.



...and the sky's going dark tomorrow. <-- I have NEVER said the sky is going dark.

But feel free to REREAD all my posts.

So you bought your 4DTV to watch Cartoon Network which NPS now reuplinks in there bitstarved over compressed mux since the VC-2 signal went dark. In short you never gave the excellent channels on the 4DTV a chance. You got disgusted with NPS's reuplinked channels due to bitstarving. For the record I hate the quality on those channels myself but they are what they are, some are okay with them. It seems your bad experience has turned into a very negative attitude towards the 4dtv and the programmers in general all together. I appreciate you posting your facts since it will forewarn anyone wanting the G3 channels expecting quality to think twice about adding those.

4DTV Picture Quality and Sky going dark FACTS:

For the record for those wanting to get a 4DTV. The master SD feeds regular and movie channels are excellent and can rival or surpass what you get on HD lite with pizza and cable. Channels like HBO have a fantastic picture with a total absence of digital artifacts. (very clean) The 4DTV masters do exceptionally well on big screen HDTV's unlike pizza does. The HITS channels W5 (although not masters) are pretty darn good although not 1st generation master quality, still much better than any SD pizza channel.

G3's (NPS only) reuplink channels (the ones that are being griped about) are sub par and look like pizza SD channels due to the lack of bandwidth. If you must have these be prepared for a letdown if your looking for a clean non digital artifact free picture. While some are okay when nothing moves soon as there is any fast movement you run into macroblocking and excessive mosquito noise. They are what they are and NPS is not going to improve it currently.

The Sky is not going dark with the 4DTV as some promote soon. If your interested in it get it and start enjoying it. Someday the 4DTV as well as Dish network Direct Tv etc will be replaced by something else. If you wait till then you will have missed out on all the entertainment currently available for subscription on the big dish.

Personally, i don't think NPS or SRL have earned the right to even sell the programming anymore. Look what they've done to it? Oh yeah, "Nothing!" Except raise the prices. To where nobody even wants to buy it anymore.

They have had there hands tied by the high cost of doing business. The programmers raised the prices to them and they had no choice but to pass the cost on to the consumer. No matter where you go these days if you want pay programming you will be paying a higher cost than years gone by. C band was hit exceptionally hard because it's costs were always way lower than pizza and cable. This I would think has to do with the complaining from the old C band subscribers.

I have to take up for NPS as well. If they were really trying to kill 4dtv, I don't think they would offer the G3 reuplinks. I have these as well, and although pic quality isn't very appealing on a 50" plasma, it is better than not having them.

In contrast, check Superstar's website (yes they still offer 4dtv programming) These jerks have the nerve to only offer c3 and c4 channels other than movie channels. Now this is a prime example of a provider trying to kill 4dtv...

I had superstar years ago and with every bill they tried to get me to switch to dishnetwork. It pushed me further away. "Get back the channels you have lost" ---holes.

It seems tvropro and myself are now on the same page.

His summation is right on, and this will be my last post on this topic.

It seems tvropro and myself are now on the same page.

His summation is right on, and this will be my last post on this topic.

I know the G3 channels are downright pizza quality. NPS was suppose to change the bitrate from 19510 to 29270 last May. That never happened and they kept on putting it off till they just let it go. Said something about Motorola wouldn't send a engineer out to oversee the flash of the encryptor. I think NPS just didn't want to spend the money to achieve this. That said we have to accept it and deal with it if we watch those on the Bud. Going pizza won't gain you much since pizza SD already sucks.

The strong points of the 4DTV are what I posted about excellent PQ on the others than G3 channels. No contracts, better choices with some alacarts, no hidden fee's, no rain fade, no credit check. The most movie channels (no body offers that many) Plus with C band you can do DVB and watch all kind of stuff for free. Whats for free on pizza? The aggravation when they stick it to you with early termination fees etc and ruin you credit rating when you tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. :eek:

Hopefully this will give those on the fence thinking about 4DTV to know what to expect and accept it with its few flaws. :)

I have to take up for NPS as well. If they were really trying to kill 4dtv, I don't think they would offer the G3 reuplinks. I have these as well, and although pic quality isn't very appealing on a 50" plasma, it is better than not having them.

In contrast, check Superstar's website (yes they still offer 4dtv programming) These jerks have the nerve to only offer c3 and c4 channels other than movie channels. Now this is a prime example of a provider trying to kill 4dtv...

I had superstar years ago and with every bill they tried to get me to switch to dishnetwork. It pushed me further away. "Get back the channels you have lost" ---holes.

Forget YSP :rant: They are owned by Charlie Dish Network, YSP has done so much damage to C band it's pathetic. They shouldn't be providing any c band channels anymore. But see how greedy Charlie Ergen is he still takes every c band dollar from the ones who haven't sold there souls to him yet. What a jerk :eek:

I could have lived with the picture quality of the reuplinks. The only one my husband wanted was Fox News and I got tired of paying $32/month for one channel. I did subscribe to the movie packages a couple of times and the picture quality was excellent on those, but I find I don't usually have enough free time to justify paying for those. That's why in the end my husband and I decided to just drop everything since we couldn't just sub to the channel we wanted. :(

I agree, that Charlie guy when I had DISH many years ago and once watch his Charlie Chat, I said, this guy is planning on ruining everything in this country concerning satellite. He and his sidekick needs to be taken out to pasture. I am baffle how America allowed these two pizza companies and cable to take away all the quality programming. What is wrong with event organizer getting paid directly via us than to be stranglehold by pizza and cable companies with their terms, contracts etc. This is rubbish!

Here are 2 pictures from NPS's reuplinks on G3 taken from my Sharp AQUOS 1080P HDTV using S video out on the 4DTV. This is what the complaint is about. Look at the peoples faces for digital artifacts.


This is not the case on the other 4DTV master channels. (see post on other channels below)

that is horrible!

What's really funny is some people say they don't see the G3 artifacts :eek:. Granted I took the pictures from about 2 feet away but still it is well seen even at regular viewing distances 8 feet or so.

If you can tolerate that then the G3 channels are for you. Otherwise go with all the others especially the masters they are great. :)

Here are a few of the other channels (1st gen Masters and W5 HITS second gen) I've taken pictures of in the past. Same HDTV and S video output as with the G3 pictures above. These were taken using my tripod at 3 feet away.

In a nutshell...Don't sell the 4DTV's picture quality short or only base a decisions on the poor NPS reuplink's. Even though currently I don't have a sub to the movies channel's. The picture quality is the same as you see here for the Disney Masters, EXCELLENT!

that is horrible!

Yes, looks about like DISHSD. And yet 10 million people don't complain. :eek:

Yes, looks about like DISHSD. And yet 10 million people don't complain. :eek:

Don't make sense to me how people can watch pizza quality. You can see the plan though with pizza. Butcher SD till it looks so bad that there HD looks great. Then slowly compress the crap out of the HD stuff till you end up with widescreen SD quality. They won't complain :eek:

Yes, that appears to be their plan. Hopefully a PQ war breaks out between the providers before it happens.

These were just taken using my tripod at 3.5 feet. The first picture is on IMO NPS's best G3 looking channel American Movie Classics. This is somewhat tolerable when the picture stands still. The next two are of Starchoice's Knowledge Network (FP mode) out of Canada. This is to compare the excellent job Shaw (Starchoice) does on Anik F1R with MPEG 2 Digicipher.

If NPS wanted to do it right they could. HITS and StarChoice does second gen's very well using the same 19510 3/4 FEC that NPS does. NPS's original update plans were to go to 29270 3/4 if they would have done that they would have had a real winner. Better bitrate than HITS and Starchoice. I really wish Mike Mountford at NPS would have shelled out the Do Ray me and made it happen :(

One thing that boggles my mind is NPS is running 19510 3/4, so is HITS and Shaw. Why does NPS look worse? If I have to guess it has to do with Crawfords engineers not knowing what they are doing, and possibly because NPS's encrypter is very old. Shaw runs less channels in there mux 8 I believe. HITS is right up there with NPS's capacity 11 or 12.

Yes, that appears to be their plan. Hopefully a PQ war breaks out between the providers before it happens.


I see all the HD that that is provided to the consumer (including OTA) going in the dumps totally in the next year or so. :(

Sad.........very very sad but I can only agree with that summation. Today it is more about quantity than quality. Proof of that is in mp3 players and "swiss army" cell phones which do everything but don't do a really good job of any one thing.

My 4DTV sub just expired and I am really torn as to what to do. The main reason for it was DIY network which is now available on Bell TV. Some of the other channels I watched are available FTA (RFD etc.) I'm going to talk it over with the wife, maybe we'll sub to some movies or something for her............If it were just me in the house it would be 4DTV, FTA and OTA and nothing else.