2-1-10
NPS will no longer be selling annual subscriptions to the C-Band Programming services that we offer due to the uncertain future availabilty of subscription channels we sell. We will continue to offer 1 month, 3 month, 6 month services.

The large female is preparing herself for vocal gymnastics. :)

Wow the end is near for Paid 4DTV channels...

Wow, after all these years since HBO went VCII, Big Dish has had the means & potential to offer uncompressed signal to those that care about PQ... while I never went 4DTV, I do have a receiver... hate to see this.

NPS made a business decision to cut back there subscriptions to 1mo, 3mo, & 6mo only. NPS has been loosing subscribers right along to SRL. SRL is not removing annual subscriptions. NPS has ticked off there customer base for a while now with not delivering on promises, and raising costs too high. This is now backfiring on them.

Nothing has changed as far as C band programming except NPS's decision to do away with yearly subscriptions. While NPS is loosing subs SRL is gaining. The sky is not falling, consumers are just changing providers because of NPS's screwups.

Please do not let this change allow all kind of rumors to start that c band subscription is dead because it isn't.

NPS made a business decision to cut back there subscriptions to 1mo, 3mo, & 6mo only. NPS has been loosing subscribers right along to SRL. SRL is not removing annual subscriptions. NPS has ticked off there customer base for a while now with not delivering on promises, and raising costs too high. This is now backfiring on them.

Nothing has changed as far as C band programming except NPS's decision to do away with yearly subscriptions. While NPS is loosing subs SRL is gaining. The sky is not falling, consumers are just changing providers because of NPS's screwups.

Please do not let this change allow all kind of rumors to start that c band subscription is dead because it isn't.

That's good to hear except that the competition is going away.

People vote with their checkbooks. NPS, from the posts I've seen had it comming.

People vote with their checkbooks. NPS, from the posts I've seen had it comming.

You can't screw people around over and over and expect them to keep taking it. It's sad NPS made bad business decisions, they have been around for a long time. NPS needs to look long and hard at there actions if they expect to hang in there.

On the flip side if Skyvision and SRL end up with all the subs it may be a good playing card for them to bargain with for us to the programmers :)

well i will sub my 4DTV till the end

nps wouldnt hit a reciever north of the border for me. ware i come from money talks especially when i have a us adress. my last monthly sub was 90+ us dollars and i got it from another provider. i would never sub to pizza pan meals as long as i live now that i am a 4dtv'er. i only hope i can get a 922 north of the border. haha. how do i get the c3 disovery / history channels is now my only question.

crackt out,.

well i will sub my 4DTV till the end

The end isn't tomorrow as some pizza lovers would like. Someday pizza will be killed by fiber so they will have an end too. At least with our C band and ku setups we can always get something. What good will those submini pizza pans be good for when they go dark. :eureka Ahh.... I know baking pizza :D

The end isn't tomorrow as some pizza lovers would like. Someday pizza will be killed by fiber so they will have an end too. At least with our C band and ku setups we can always get something. What good will those submini pizza pans be good for when they go dark. :eureka Ahh.... I know baking pizza :D

They make real good bird baths just add a couple rocks and water and maybe even a fountain for them.

My slimline dish bigger then a pizza sized dish will cover that shameful 4DTV receiver (to keep the dust off it for zero use).. LOL

I lost my patience with NPS a few years ago when they sold me a defective new 922 while they were still being made. It took so long to straighten out, I ended up using a DSR410 system while waiting to get my replacement.

I moved to SRL and have been very pleased with their packages and service. I'll keep my 905 and 922 subbed until the end.

Approx. how many 4DTV subscribers still exist?

I would love to see a new model DC II satellite receiver come out the size of a current DVB satellite receiver with updated graphics and features.

Approx. how many 4DTV subscribers still exist?

I would love to see a new model DC II satellite receiver come out the size of a current DVB satellite receiver with updated graphics and features.

:info Nps said not long ago they have over 20,000 subs, SRL has the same or maybe more now. Last I heard NPS has 50% of the market share. As a guesstimate I would say around 45K give or take.

:info Nps said not long ago they have over 20,000 subs, SRL has the same or maybe more now. Last I heard NPS has 50% of the market share. As a guesstimate I would say around 45K give or take.

You can add one more to the numbers. I broke down today and ordered the Pick Ten from SRL. There are only three channels I want. But I decided to try it anyway. ;)

You can add one more to the numbers. I broke down today and ordered the Pick Ten from SRL. There are only three channels I want. But I decided to try it anyway. ;)

Most of my NPS runs out in a few months. I've been looking at the pick 10 pack myself. NPS is getting flaky lately, SRL seems to have there act together. Time to switch I think.

The "Pick 10" looks like a very good package. However, I wouldn't pick ALN as one of my choices, because you would receive it free once the package becomes authorized.

I've said, "Sorry Charlie" at the end of 2000! :up

Now I am a "No Programming Service" former customer, one of many! :D

It was like history repeating itself! It seemed like I left the same company twice for the same reasons! Poor customer service and steep price increases! :eek:

Are these two the same company???... :rolleyes:

crackt i use RPS in Montreal rpssat.com talk to Roger he will set you up very nice guy help me to get my 4DTV working

I go through Skyvision for my 4DTV sub and as long as you have a US address they will activate for you.

This is all great and stuff, however I think its time to get an official statement from Motorola. Someone needs to call up management and ask for a written statement.

I was a bit worried till I spoke with Mike Kohl at Skyvision yesterday. Mike has been in the satellite industry forever I trust his information. He will be on Access America Friday Night 9pm EST anyone can call in and ask questions.

With all the reading I've done about this (I don't have a 4dtv myself) I've come to one conclusion, and that is NPS may very well be telling the truth, to a point. Motorola is ending C-band support, for NPS, and by request. They seem to be leaving that part out.

I have had a few different conversations with people at NPS in the last week and I keep pumping them for information. I also have been following NPS's dealing with 4DTV for a while and Mr. Mountfords responses in the chat logs when pressured into a response.

I surmise this from what I know. Mike Mountford has been a bad bargaining partner with Motorola. In the past always tying to get the prices he wanted vs just paying the requested costs. He also had some bad dealings with Motorola tech's and the G3 uplinks past summer. Mike said in one of the chats that if he keeps bugging Motorola there going to quit support to NPS. He also just filed a formal complaint to Motorola in December over the guide. In short he stepped on too many toes at Motorola and they want him gone. Motorola raised his access rates 20% in January. NPS is also refusing to pay programmers there price increases and has no contract with providers such as A&E. He knows he's in deep crap and may have even stiffed some of his vendors on bills. That could be why NPS is really preaching channels may disappear tomorrow now. It's all coming home to roost that's why he's getting out. The bad part is now he's taking out as many c band subscribers as he can to get his payoff from Charlie Ergan maybe to pay the legal bills.

SRL on the other hand has a good relationship with Motorola as Mike Kohl said last night on Sat Talk. SRL seems to go with the flow and don't make waves. Thats probably why there liked.

The persons at fault here is not Nps or Motorola it's most of us.
Our wayof thinking in this country is like that.
We are a throwaway society we like to constantly buy new stuff and throw away old stuff and get ourselves in SERIOUS debt till our houses get forclosed.
Look I came back to Michigan last year but I think I'm going back to the Netherlands antilles because there at least they don't even know what digital cable is so I can buy any tv plug the coax in and watch tv for years.
Here I have huge problems.
I have 4 older tv's that only has coax and RCA in and they all work fine.
But My cable system is partly digital and partly analog so for the digital channels my cable co has given me a cable box.
Well one of the cableboxes went out so I had to get a new one.
The cable guy came with the cable box but no the newer cable boxes only habe component out(3wires for video and 2 for audio)and Hdmi.
So I couldn't have digital cable anymore I have to throw away all my tvs and go rn and buy new plasmas to be able to view my digital channels.
My tv in the livin room is a Sony 60 inch with component and Hdmi.
That's where I have the 4dtv connected.
But when 4dtv dies then I'll ave to get dishnet.
BUt the thing is if I wait to long I might get a new receiver with Hdmi 2.0.
And that one won't work with my tv tht has the older Hdmi so I have to put it outside for the trash to collect and go run and buy a new one.
All I want is to come home and watch tv when I'm tired of a whole days work but in 2010 you have to be a milionare to be able to watch tv because you have to buy everything new like every year.
If everybody kept their 4dtv system this wouldn't have happened but no everybody ran and bought a dishnet or directv system that only a few of us remained but we're not enough to support C band.
Look it costs 300k Us dolars to lease ONE transponder on a Satelitte.
If you count how many transponders are leased by skyvision and NPs to uplink channels and how many subs they have you'll find out that they are not making ANY MONEY with this.
That's why they sell dishnet and Directv one the side they do that just so they'll be able to cover the uplink costs their business is not profitable they do it just because they have a HEART for C band.
But of course that will come to an end.
Motorola can't keep up mapping the receivers on G1 because it costs them $300k a month to put maps for a receiver they are not even making anymore.
And why aren't they making them anymore?
Because nobody will buy them.
At first if they make new receiver they have to price them way cheaper than dishnet receivers and to do that they need financial support from the programming providers that aren't making any money.
So that's why we will never geta new receiver.
So this is live in North America.
So Now use your kids college funds to buy the new tvs that will come out buy the end of this year with Hdmi 2.0 nd buy the new receivers with Hdmi 2.0 and prepare yourselves for a Galore of problems when the picture and sound is not in sync and the tv store that sold you the tv blames your cable company and your cable cmpany blames the tv for the problem.
This is THE AMERICAN DREAM!!!!

Dannymcenrow, I may be wrong but I believe and someone may correct me but the only one paying for uplinking is NPS on G3 and then Comcast does W5 HIT's programming which everyone then just purchases it. And your price seems high from what I've been able to find for transponders so I'm curious on where did you get your information.This is what I've found.
The cost of leasing varies, depending on variables such as the time of day, frequency, power, duration of lease contract, orbital position, and type of satellite. In recent years, the rate for domestic analog C-band channels ranged from $200 to $600 per hour, or $55,000 to $230,000 per month.
Some of your analyze is correct but others seem to be off base to me.

correct sergei

The ONLY person who is using/selling/uplinking the G3 channels is NPS
The W5 stuff is Comcast HITS and sells to other providers

I agree with Danny's post in regards to our disposable society. However, an update for 4dtv is long overdue. I dont really see why Moto doesn't offer a firmware upgrade for our current receivers. If you look at diagnostics while on a stream, it recognizes whether stream is QPSK or combo mode, so if that is possible why can't the receiver be capable of combo mode? If it isn't though Motorola could consider a new add on (maybe give starchoice an upgrade and make it useful for 4dtv as well) such as to replace the hdd-200 with an add on for combo mode. And it needs an HDMI or HDMI 2.0 or whatever is current to keep it up to date.

Just my rants, I just hope SRL can get us a couple of HD's and FoxNews....


The American Dream has caused mountains of unpayable debt thanks to the US government and dumb consumers.

Most likely the people who designed the receivers have long since retired and the new people haven't got a clue has how to do it. To the new engineers it's old technology and probably something that was never taught to them which would give Motorola a hard time getting it back together.

The data stream cost is most likely closer to $500 or less per month.

I agree with the disposable society comment, but there are other factors to be considered such as increased equipment, installation and maintenance costs and the not to be overlooked, the WAF (Wife Approval Factor).

The reason we can not use Star Choice receivers is because of political decisions that Motorola them selfs implemented. Will the hard ware work? YES Will they allow it to work here? No

It remind me of the debate about music piracy. 1. Who is one of the largest producers of blank CD's and DVD's? Answer = Sony 2. Who is one of the largest producers of CDROM and DVD ROM Drives? Answer = Sony 3. Who is the one of the largest computer makers in the world? Answer = You guess it Sony.

Who owns Sony music ? Ill give you a hint Sony. So while they claim to loose money from the "theft" of music they are making up some or all of the lost revenue in the other divisions.

Ultimately what holds true from both Motorola and Sony regarding both issues could be resolved at the top levels of the company management, both companies choose not to do so.

** Extra info - Sony Music is one of the Big Four music companies, and includes ownership and distribution of recording labels such as Arista Records, Columbia Records, Epic Records, J Records, Jive Records, RCA Victor Records, RCA Records, Legacy Recordings, Sonic Wave America, and others.

I agree with Danny's post in regards to our disposable society. However, an update for 4dtv is long overdue. I dont really see why Moto doesn't offer a firmware upgrade for our current receivers. If you look at diagnostics while on a stream, it recognizes whether stream is QPSK or combo mode, so if that is possible why can't the receiver be capable of combo mode? If it isn't though Motorola could consider a new add on (maybe give starchoice an upgrade and make it useful for 4dtv as well) such as to replace the hdd-200 with an add on for combo mode. And it needs an HDMI or HDMI 2.0 or whatever is current to keep it up to date.

Just my rants, I just hope SRL can get us a couple of HD's and FoxNews....


The American Dream has caused mountains of unpayable debt thanks to the US government and dumb consumers.

The 922 cannot do combo mode at 29270 3/4 which what the programmers are using even with a firmware update. It needs a different tuner to handle the wideband signal.

Could we technically use a newer Starchoice or Voom receiver with an 4play type interface to write our own channel maps so we could tune ZK & FP combo mode stuff. That could be allot of fun watching those feeds when they go ITC :) Does anyone with deep programming knowledge know?

To Danny and others: It is the 4dtv receiver that I can thank for not becoming part of the disposable society. I like having a little money to spend as i see fit, however, i am a miser. i do not have hdtv because i will not DIE if my quality is not absolutely so fine. my big old 1996 sony trinitron 36" tv works just fine. we only have one tv in our house and it will stay that way for years to come - probably until one of the kids wants to buy their own tv and get it hooked up ever how they want to pay for it.

our 922 kept us from having to buy an hd tv. it kept us from putting our BUD in the landfill. and it has helped us keep some freedom of choice in programming.

everything that danny speaks of is many hassles that we personally have been spared all because of one piece of equipment.

but then, a bud is not a hobby for me. i wish it was so i could understand it better and how to get more programming out of it.

although what is available in programming is not considered tangible waste, i feel like i have saved myself and my family from a TON of trash by not going small dish. i know that i have saved money by keeping my system the way that it is.


i am not completely (we all are somewhat) part of the throw away society, but would any of you want to marry me? i am happy not wearing makeup. i am happy to not go shopping for clothes and jewelry all the time - only when necessary, which is rare. i recycle in the worst way, which means that much is reused in my home. i only have one credit card. i have what i consider a low limit, although it could be much higher. i didn't buy a house for the max amount that my CU authorized a loan for. one of my cars is 13 years old and we maintain it ourselves on a regular basis.

we are a wasteful society, but in my case i fight it like crazy. part of that fight is to keep my bud up and running with programming that is sufficient on its own without having to supplement with small dish or cable. my 4dtv receiver has helped me accomplish that.

now what to do when my equipment dies, and when good cband programming ceases to exist? ;)

Maybe with nps out of business what are the chances of srl and skyvision possibly being able to get the espn networks back? I would drop directv tomorrow.

Mtnmetz - I admire your efforts, as it is most of everybody's effort here. I would like for them to update though. I do have a 50" plasma, bought it on sale for $999. I paid $1200 for a Sony Trinitron 36" back in 1994 when I was waiting on a 7.5 SAMI dish to be installed with a Toshiba TRX-???? IRD. It was happy times, man that trinitron had a picture. I had to retire it this year from our living room because of picture deterioration, unable to read scores on games anymore, etc. I did put it up in kids room so they can play the ps2. If I had to bet, I would bet that the Panasonic 50" don't give me 16 years of service.

Back to the subject...
Msrebel, I'd pay for ESPN too, and fox news... Attn. Mike Kohl...

mtnmetz - good on you!

I like so many love the freedom of BUD - I too would pay for ESPN, Fox News not to mention others.

I think a replacement receiver to the 4DTV is needed, for megapipe purposes - and I'll go so far to say, I wouldn't give a fiddle if it didn't have a positioner - I still have some laying around and I could use my 920 anyway!

Of course, that would require the receiver to be intelligent enough to know which sat it was being fed...

Interestingly though - the DSR410 - went from Ku to CBand without hardware changes - so there is so pixie dust in there :)

In theory you could rewrite the firmware on a Starchoice box and get it to work. The newer Starchoice boxes see's two satellites now. The DSR 410 is a 905 in disguise without polarity control and a cable tuner.

In theory you could rewrite the firmware on a Starchoice box and get it to work. The newer Starchoice boxes see's two satellites now. The DSR 410 is a 905 in disguise without polarity control and a cable tuner.

LOL! - 410 masquerading as a 905 :D