Well it finally went dark...G9 starz hd e/w 122, 124 gone. No more hd movie channels on the 4d..:(


Should I get the HDD 200 out of my ET center to free up some space of leave it connected?

Hmmm......

G9 starz hd e/w 122, 124 gone.

BOO!!!

I use my HDD-200 as a line doubler.

Sad, if they would have been adding channels instead of getting rid of them, HDTV on 4DTV could have gained steam.

Well said, their down to one (hdnet) now... and pbs ( if your in to that )

I did not get a green light on the Wealth Channel HD either... So thats most likely dead to

They have switched the mux to DVB-S2.
Six HD channels, all encrypted.

IndiePlex HD
RetroPlex HD
Free Preview HD
Starz in Black HD
Starz Cinema HD
Encore West HD

You gonna see alot of them on ebay now.. 4DTV is dying quicker then HDDVD did

I am tired of this s**t. When my Starz sub runs out in June, that'll be it for them. Their movies are old 1 and 2 star movies I already saw 15 years ago anyways.

They were the last to set us out with the evening trash though, but no option for hd sucks. It's not us, it's them. I say f..k em all and when they won't take my money I'll blind scan and watch their junk for free when possible and anything else fta.

These companies can't put out much good material anymore and I suspect most's days are numbered. I will not miss them and they can't die fast enough.

I am ready for FreeCanadaHD and freedbs. Screw Viacom, Comcast, Disney, and the alphabets.

The picture quality of the HD lite versions being offered of the big cable channels on pizza pale in comparison to what the HDD-200 or a DVB HD master can provide. Last I heard Charlie is down to 4 to 4.5 meg per channel for his HD lite fare, and the bitstarving shows. Eventually all the cheating and screwing of us by these big companies will come back and bite them.

Last I heard Charlie is down to 4 to 4.5 meg per channel for his HD lite fare

Perhaps that's why my locals look so much better Thur the antenna then the 77 sat.

Well glad we still have one channel left on C3.

I'll be honest I don't see what the big deal is for HD, I have an HD TV, and a blue ray player, Dolby HD Digital rocks, but the picture is not what I thought it would be.
I will also be surprized if there are any movie channels left in 5 years, Netflix and Red Box have got to be hurting them big time, I can't imagine paying what they want for the privlidge of watching the same movie 50 times, when I can go to Red Box, pay $1.00 and get a relativly new release, and never watch the same movie more then once...unless it is a good one!!

NetFlix, and Amazon.com both have a set up so that you can download right to your TV, if I knew how to do that:mad:

I wouldn't blame it on the 4Dtv, I think these companies are feeling the pain and cutting where they can.
Terry

Perhaps that's why my locals look so much better Thur the antenna then the 77 sat.

Well glad we still have one channel left on C3.
My parents have Dish, and a 45" Digital HD tv, today I went down and hooked it up so they could bet the locals off air, I think they where impressed by the quality difference, I know I was, I knew they had a bad picture quality but to see it side by side WOW, I can't believe people pay for that, and I can't believe it hurt C Band as badly as it has, I have been nothing but happy with 4Dtv and C Band with just a couple of exceptions, the biggest being that if you want to watch two different programs in different rooms at the same time you have to pay double, that is the biggest drawback, but I still love it.
Terry

Most quality Hi Def (Blu ray, broadcast master) IMHO is more or less what I have watched in the past on a good analog master on my bud. There is a widescreen aspect ratio over SD but it's not so spectacular to my eyes. Now when I see bitstarved HD such as pizza provides I see a soft picture with digital macroblocking and mosquito noise. To some one who was watching pizza SD or a ghosty snowy picture for years it may look great, but to us old timers who have been watching a buds quality picture for years it's no biggie.

I'll be honest I don't see what the big deal is for HD, I have an HD TV, and a blue ray player, Dolby HD Digital rocks, but the picture is not what I thought it would be.
I will also be surprized if there are any movie channels left in 5 years, Netflix and Red Box have got to be hurting them big time, I can't imagine paying what they want for the privlidge of watching the same movie 50 times, when I can go to Red Box, pay $1.00 and get a relativly new release, and never watch the same movie more then once...unless it is a good one!!

NetFlix, and Amazon.com both have a set up so that you can download right to your TV, if I knew how to do that:mad:

I wouldn't blame it on the 4Dtv, I think these companies are feeling the pain and cutting where they can.
Terry

As far as blu ray goes, the picture quality varies a great deal depending on a number of factors.
There is a list I think on avs forums of some of the best PQ blu ray movies. The Pirates of the Caribbean movies all look fantastic imo. It depends on how the movie was originally filmed, some formats convert to HD better than others.
With a good quality Blu Ray, the picture looks freakin' awesome!! :D

Most quality Hi Def (Blu ray, broadcast master) IMHO is more or less what I have watched in the past on a good analog master on my bud.

I would never claim DN's or DTV's HD approaches 1080i, but you did specifically call out Blu-ray and broadcast masters.

Full BW analog was very nice in its day, but it's a very inefficient technology for coding information (resolution/picture quality). There was some interesting research done a few years ago on the limits of human visual acuity that concluded 4K projectors would be required to achieve this level for SMPTE-recommended viewing distances. 1080p is roughly midway between 480i and 4K.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but having worked in the broadcast world, having access to some of the finest source material over the past 35-odd years and having compared all generations of optical storage, master feeds, etc. on both high and low end displays I am in complete disagreement with your view. I enjoyed 4DTV HD while it lasted, but I have no desire to return to 1970s-grade studio SD.

One can hope the C-band providers will pull a rabbit out of the hat by for example convincing Motorola to adapt their Shaw Direct receiver designs for 4DTV purposes, but currently that would be limited to 8PSK DCII with MPEG2 with just DVI outputs. Read the Canadian forums to see the frustration levels SD customers are experiencing waiting for the forever delayed next-generation receivers that could do H.264 and/or DVB-S2. Our market is smaller and dwindling faster.

The only problem is that 99% of the people out there are never privy to the studio source. Beyond that point everything is a compromise one way or the other. I believe that a very nice old analog satellite master looks superior to most that the general public see's.

I'm sure there are broadcast sources that are true eye candy, what I have seen of Blu ray and HD in general isn't that true eye candy. Im sure If I was privy to inside the studio and saw some outstanding HD video my views could change.

I hear you about the general dearth of good quality material available to the masses. It probably doesn't matter for the most part because a lot of people simply watch SD on HD screens at best.

There are some horrible Blu-ray transfers, but a fair amount pushes the limits of what can be done with 1080p24. The same can be said for high rate (30-40 Mbit/s) FTA HD feeds. There is not a dramatic difference between either of these and uncompressed HD video.

Agreed and watching SD on an HD screen is probably the WORST way to watch TV.
I remember when the first plasma and LCD sets came out. I was working at a consumer electronics store at the time. There was only 2-3 channels of HD available on Bell and nothing on cable at all in our area. So many people were upset when they got their gorgeous new set home only to find out that it looked like absolute crap with their analog cable or SD satellite signal. To some degree things are still a bit like that IMO. The majority of folks only wanting a large quantity of channels and don't give much thought about quality.

Since the dawn of the TV age, quality was always the focus. From black and white to color, then with satellite and cable the picture quality got even better. All improvements in quality. Now it just seems like we have the potential for greatness in picture quality but it is coming at the wrong time because as already stated, everybody wants more. If we could be happy with less channels then we could have all of them in good quality HD........never gonna happen. All most folks want is lots and lots of channels as cheap and as easy as possible. Just shut off the brain and surf surf surf.:rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:

Agreed and watching SD on an HD screen is probably the WORST way to watch TV.
I remember when the first plasma and LCD sets came out. I was working at a consumer electronics store at the time. There was only 2-3 channels of HD available on Bell and nothing on cable at all in our area. So many people were upset when they got their gorgeous new set home only to find out that it looked like absolute crap with their analog cable or SD satellite signal. To some degree things are still a bit like that IMO. The majority of folks only wanting a large quantity of channels and don't give much thought about quality.



You can watch SD with very good results on a HD screen. It depends on your source material, and the scaler in your tv. My AQUOS looks absolutely beautiful on SD even in smart stretch mode, as long as I feed it an outstanding source. The sources I feed is either a 1st generation master feed from my 4DTV (via s video 480i), a 1st generation master feed from my Visionsat (via component 480i) or a excellent DVD (via component at 480p)

Now hooking up a HDTV to SD pizza or digital cable will look pretty sad. You have to watch there HD to get any satisfaction. On a good day there HD lite approaches the quality of a good SD source.

You can watch SD with very good results on a HD screen. It depends on your source material, and the scaler in your tv. My AQUOS looks absolutely beautiful on SD even in smart stretch mode, as long as I feed it an outstanding source. The sources I feed is either a 1st generation master feed from my 4DTV (via s video 480i), a 1st generation master feed from my Visionsat (via component 480i) or a excellent DVD (via component at 480p)

Now hooking up a HDTV to SD pizza or digital cable will look pretty sad. You have to watch there HD to get any satisfaction. On a good day there HD lite approaches the quality of a good SD source.
I was just thinking this same thing, I just got anew HD tv, 55" I replaced a 65" Mitsubishi HD with it, I get great results from my 4Dtv, my DVB box, and cable once I scaned in the digital piggy backed channels:) as I said earlier I just hooked up an of air antenna to my parents HD tv, it is amazing how much difference there is between the digital channels off air to Dish channels, anyway now that ICe has gone Pizza don't want to be to hard on it:rolleyes:
Terry

i stayed in a 4 star hotel that advertised "HD tv in every room"....Yeah.. it was an HDtv with analog cable or some bastardized analog headend in the hotel complete with some snow, ghosting, and lines on some of the channels. what a waste of a tv if you ask me.

I have never thought Dish or Directv looked that good with their HD. They map their SD channels (directv) beside the equivalent HD version of a channel and when you compare the difference you think "wow ..HD is great" but stop and think...the SD channel is so bit starved it makes their bit starved HD channel look good.

I know 4DTV was slipping downward when i got into it 7 years ago. i just would not bring myself to signing two year contracts with the pizza pans and cable company.
I do not see myself married to them that long with an expensive early termination fee.
i do not like the fact that directv holds your credit card hostage either.

when 4dtv is gone....i will simply be FTA and OTA. Nothing more. or if something would happen to my 4dtv receivers.

I have never thought Dish or Directv looked that good with their HD. They map their SD channels (directv) beside the equivalent HD version of a channel and when you compare the difference you think "wow ..HD is great" but stop and think...the SD channel is so bit starved it makes their bit starved HD channel look good.



That's there dirty little plan.

HD Lite The Big Lie... (http://www.***********************.com/satellite/hdlite.htm)




I know 4DTV was slipping downward when i got into it 7 years ago. i just would not bring myself to signing two year contracts with the pizza pans and cable company.
I do not see myself married to them that long with an expensive early termination fee.
i do not like the fact that directv holds your credit card hostage either.

when 4dtv is gone....i will simply be FTA and OTA. Nothing more. or if something would happen to my 4dtv receivers.I will not do contracts. Allot can happen in those two years where you may not be able to afford it or just plain hate it. If you read on the web, Dish and Direct are stickling it to seniors on fixed incomes with there contracts and early termination fees. That's just wrong. Before I would ever look at pizza they would have to, do away with contracts, get lower pricing at the regular rate and offer alacarte or better packages for what I want to watch. I doubt that will ever happen so I'll stick with eating pizza :)

You can watch SD with very good results on a HD screen. It depends on your source material, and the scaler in your tv. My AQUOS looks absolutely beautiful on SD even in smart stretch mode, as long as I feed it an outstanding source. The sources I feed is either a 1st generation master feed from my 4DTV (via s video 480i), a 1st generation master feed from my Visionsat (via component 480i) or a excellent DVD (via component at 480p)

Now hooking up a HDTV to SD pizza or digital cable will look pretty sad. You have to watch there HD to get any satisfaction. On a good day there HD lite approaches the quality of a good SD source.

Of all my input sources the 4DTV is definitely the best SD source I have, aside from the handful of analog on C-Band but it is still not comparable to a good quality Blu-Ray movie.
In my case though my DSR905 does not have a S-video connection so I'm connected via composite video.

Composite will do quite well, but S and component will be purer with color and is usually sharper. I would say that my 922 on S and my Visionsat DVB on component have excellent results to my HDTV. MY SD DVD player is on component also at 480p and puts out an excellent picture too. I don't have any HDMI devices yet but inputs for them.

Did you try to hook your Pansat 3500 up via S or component and scan some SD masters like Ion or the CW. If not give it a shot you may be quite pleased with the results.

I contemplated the 3500 with component but the problem is that all the equipment is at one end of the room and the TV is in another. The switching takes place in the HT receiver which does not have component switching. I have one that does do component switching but it does not upconvert any of the other sources to component.
So to make a long story short, I would have to run a whole bunch of new wiring to get it done.
I know ION and some of the others look pretty damn sharp even with composite video.

The other thing I could do is move the FTA stuff downstairs to the home theater room where I have a projector with all the input sources connected (HDMI, component, S-vid and composite) but we do the majority of our "everyday" watching upstairs. Need more equipment!!!! :D

I have all my stuff connected to the best sources possible in my downstairs Media Center. But I also feed composite to my upstairs living room and RF all over my home. Before I got the Visionsat I ran my Pansat 2700A using S video out and converted it to composite with a passive circuit I made using 2 capacitors, a pot, and a hand wound inductor. It looked better doing that then using straight composite. I still use that circuit for other things in my home too. Including feeding my DSR-405 (Shaw) from S video > composite to hook in with the switches for composite to my HDTV.

Too many wires but worth it for the end results :D But then you can never have too many wires or dishes ;)

I will not do contracts. Allot can happen in those two years where you may not be able to afford it or just plain hate it

Stop it! That is not true.:eek:

If you buy your own Charlie Dish and Receiver. Not that any of you guys would. But, for the record a "contract would not be required". Sound familiar? Kind of like 4DTV? Huh?

I have all my stuff connected to the best sources possible in my downstairs Media Center. But I also feed composite to my upstairs living room and RF all over my home. Before I got the Visionsat I ran my Pansat 2700A using S video out and converted it to composite with a passive circuit I made using 2 capacitors, a pot, and a hand wound inductor. It looked better doing that then using straight composite. I still use that circuit for other things in my home too. Including feeding my DSR-405 (Shaw) from S video > composite to hook in with the switches for composite to my HDTV.

Too many wires but worth it for the end results :D But then you can never have too many wires or dishes ;)

I agree with the last comment but once I start it will be a very long and drawn out process! I'm not ready to invest the time right now. When it gets done the whole home theater/media center will be be re-vamped. The previous owner built it and while he had the right idea, he had no real knowledge of sound quality or proper placement etc. or the fact that wood and glass rattle..............I could go on and on but I won't. The equipment will be moved to behind the bar, up at eye level and to a place where I can easily access the wiring from the rear in a storage room. Then I'll be looking at maximizing signal sources and having a dedicated BUD just for FTA and one for 4DTV...........again, no time to do it right right now so it won't get started for awhile.

If you buy your own Charlie Dish and Receiver. Not that any of you guys would. But, for the record a "contract would not be required". Sound familiar? Kind of like 4DTV? Huh?

That's what I did when I switched to Dish a number of years ago. I bought a 942 receiver and a Dish 1000. I installed it myself and called to activate programming. Just like I did when I had 4dtv.

When Dish switched their HD from Mpeg 2 to Mpeg 4, I could no longer receive the HD channels on my 942. I complained to Dish about them taking away the HD channels and asked for a 622 to replace my 942 receiver or I was going to switch to Directv or Comcast or U-verse. They sent me a 622 receiver to replace the 942. I have no contract and the only fee I pay is a DVR fee which started last month. Before that, it was included free with the America's Everything Package.

Last night I compared the Scripps SD 4dtv channels to the Dish HD channels. While the Scripps SD channels do look very nice on my Samsung 50 inch plasma, the Dish HD channels look better. I have over 100 HD channels. The last I checked there were 2 on 4dtv. I enjoyed my 4dtv for many years, but the lack of HD channels, the loss of the ESPN channels and increasing costs for 4dtv programming made DISH more attractive and once I started using their DVR, going back to 4dtv would be very difficult.

Stop it! That is not true.:eek:

I have no interest in a pizza dish system. I'd rather watch HD on my bud for free each month. Us hobbyists love looking for that free find and enjoying the run. If I want cable on a stick that I can't get from 4D I would get Comcast, correction Infinity. I just thew away a bundle ad that came to my house this morning. Those ads are good to wipe my you know what with. Do that with pizza ad's all the time :D

I have no interest in a pizza dish system. I'd rather watch HD on my bud for free each month. Us hobbyists love looking for that free find and enjoying the run. If I want cable on a stick that I can't get from 4D I would get Comcast, correction Infinity. I just thew away a bundle ad that came to my house this morning. Those ads are good to wipe my you know what with. Do that with pizza ad's all the time :D

That's totally fine. But, why make false statements about E* requiring contracts in the mean time? When it isn't true. Or maybe you never said it. But agreed with the poster that did. :D

Aren't you the guy that got his wings clipped by satforums moderators lately for starting arguments with people over there? I seem to recall your handle on many posts looking to pick an argument. I read that forum for information too, as some here do. We won't allow any of that over here I'm sure. You can ask ICEBERG about that if you think Im wrong.

I stated that I will not do contracts and didn't make any false statements. I said pizza is for eating.

The thing is people have to wake up and see that we're being totally RIPPED OFF!
Not just with tv but everything look at the computer world.
'In the 90''s I used to have a computer that had a 486 66mhz processor 16 mb of ram and a 420mb hard drive.
I used to do everything with it.
Wright letters surf the web play games like Doom and everything.
Today supposingly computers have like 100 times more power then those computers but what to they do?|
The same thing nothing else.
Back in the 90's I couldn't watch a video and type at the same time because the video will get choppy or the typing becomes difficult because the computer can't handle 2 tasks very well.
But try to do that on todays computer.
What will Happen?
THE SAME THING.
Computers today haven't got any faster then the ones in the 90's.
Because they had to make new updated software that requires a LOT MORE PROCESSING POWER TO DO THE SAME TASKS so that people HAVE to throw away their computer and buy a new one.
The same thing is happening with tv.
They only want to PHASE OUT STUFF so they get more people to buy their stuff.
I read on another Forum that starting next year they are gonna stop making component video outputs on EVERYTHING so they would only have HDMI.
So if you don't have an HDMI ready tv yet throw it away because next years dvd players and gaming consoles even cable boxes are gonna be HDMI only.
But the thruth is since 1997 nothing has really improved in the tv world picture quality is still the same but they found a way to play with peoples mind to let people thing they get Hd and stuff like that but it's all the same.
Look for instance why did they make Blue ray players?
to Phase out dvd.
Dvd came out in 1997 but it's not NEW Thechnology.
Before that there was LASERDISC they we're around since 1990 I still have a lot of Laserdiscs at home I cannot watch anymore but they really had a picture and the SOUND was BEYOND AWESOME most of the movies had like THX certified sound and on my THx certified A/V receiver I had back in the day it REALLY FELT LIKE A HOME THEATHER.
I personally don't think that picture quality CAN even get any better.
I don't know but I know somebody who works in a Studio who told me that S video Max capability is 720i.
I don't know if that's true.
But look now their coming with 3d tvs to phase out 2 d tvs.
On my Sony tv the 4dtv picture looks more then real I mean I can look at the picture and it has more detail that if I would look at the same thing personally.
I mean look at the discovery channelsor animal planet you can see a backround like you see an animal but the backround is so detailed like if the show is filmed in the mountains you can see the mountains in such a great detail that it almost feels like you're there
So I ask myself if it is possible to even GET a better picture if a better picture TRULY EXISTS because I mean how many details can the human eye see?
If you look at hd itself like I traveled many countrys I went to the Netherlands last year and I went to look at their Satelitte stores to see what they have.
If you look at them their system is more like ours.
They only have Ku band but they don't reuplink everything like we do they subscribe to masters and see master free to air.
But they don't have a lot o Hd channels only 1 or 2 but their SD is ONLY in WIDE SCREEN FORMAT.
All tvs thre even cheap crt ones have wide screen format they get everything in 16:9 but not HD just SD with regular 16:9.
But here people claim to have like 100 Hd channels but their not really Hds their just chanels with higher bandwith but it's not really 1080i
But the thing is since it's impossible to actually check if a program is really 1080i they can tell you it is so you would believe it.
But in fact you don't know because you can't count all the pixels to see if they are all being used.
Anyways my post is getting to long but I wish that people try to see the reality of this and stop getting sucked in by stupid commercials and stuff like that and really start looking at the facts

They only want to PHASE OUT STUFF so they get more people to buy their stuff.



It's called planned obsolescence.

BTW Laser discs came out in 1977 I think. I had a friend who bought a player when I was in High School in the late 70's. It was called DiscoVision back then. I got my first LD player in 85 and still have the one from 1990. Laser disc has a great picture. :)

Aren't you the guy that got his wings clipped by satforums moderators lately for starting arguments with people over there? I seem to recall your handle on many posts looking to pick an argument. I read that forum for information too, as some here do. We won't allow any of that over here I'm sure. You can ask ICEBERG about that if you think Im wrong.

I stated that I will not do contracts and didn't make any false statements. I said pizza is for eating.

Yes, i was tired of all the BS claims being made over there.
If you choose to support 4DTV. Thats fine. I'm all for it? But, the lies about SDPQ being better than E*HD, cheapest prices, contracts ect... Should stop.

4dtv SD masters like HBO and others, and some SD DVB channels can rival pizza's HD lite. Usually they don't have the digital artifacts that bitstarving brings on.

Let's look at it in theory. A SD signal using 9 mbps like ABC Family and Disney is bound to have less artifacts (actually none) then an Echo HD signal using 4 to 4.5 mbps for HD. There may be a hint in the HD signal of a slightly crisper picture because of 720p or 1080i (which isn't the full resolution stated) over 480i but it's plagued by mosquito noise and macroblocking. I much rather watch a slightly softer clean picture instead of a crisper picture with artifacts that when they do a wide shot the peoples faces in the distance looks like blocks.

HD is a buzz word and can be better only if the bandwidth is there. In the case of pizza the bandwidth definitely is not there. Take a look at ION HD master on DVB, it's FTA and put that up against a reuplink by Echo and see what you think.

But here people claim to have like 100 Hd channels but their not really Hds their just chanels with higher bandwith but it's not really 1080i



That's true for the most part! Fios maybe different and some cable. I don't know?

HD is a buzz word and can be better only if the bandwidth is there. In the case of pizza the bandwidth definitely is not there. Take a look at ION HD master on DVB, it's FTA and put that up against a reuplink by Echo and see what you think.

I don't have to look at ION HD. I already know the Cband masters blow away anything E* can put out. There's a few i've been watching during the day that look great.;)

Yes I know of the ones your talking about I just don't want to mention them here. Yes they look very nice. The point I guess I'm trying to make is a master is a master be it SD or HD. HD only means more pixels that's why it's suppose to be sharper. In the case of ANY reuplink unless passed through in it's original state will suffer. Pizza has too many HD channels and not enough bandwidth. As the masses keep demanding more HD out of them the quality will go down more and more till they look as bad as their SD counterpart.

Let's look at it in theory. A SD signal using 9 mbps like ABC Family and Disney is bound to have less artifacts (actually none) then an Echo HD signal using 4 to 4.5 mbps for HD. .

That maybe the case, but damn nobody's selling those 2 channels. :D

Yes I know of the ones your talking about I just don't want to mention them here. Yes they look very nice. The point I guess I'm trying to make is a master is a master be it SD or HD. HD only means more pixels that's why it's suppose to be sharper. In the case of ANY reuplink unless passed through in it's original state will suffer. Pizza has too many HD channels and not enough bandwidth. As the masses keep demanding more HD out of them the quality will go down more and more till they look as bad as their SD counterpart.

I wouldn't even be pointing out the Shortcomings of 4DTV or even the Myths surrounding E*. If only we had a new Cband receiver. How do they expect 4DTV to grow? When they can't offer what it was truly about in the beginning? Low prices! All the channels up in the sky! HD and more to come! Really sucks that its getting the shaft now. Don't it?

That maybe the case, but damn nobody's selling those 2 channels. :D

That is the shame part of it. If you ever did see them you would be hard pressed to see anything better for SD digital. They approach HD and that is because of the bitstarving isn't there. The CW SD with DVB has a very good picture. There running 3 SD channels in that mux. I think Echo is pushing 6 to 7 now for HD and 13-15 for SD, that's just nuts.

I wouldn't even be pointing out the Shortcomings of 4DTV or even the Myths surrounding E*. If only we had a new Cband receiver. How do they expect 4DTV to grow? When they can't offer what it was truly about in the beginning? Low prices! All the channels up in the sky! HD and more to come! Really sucks that its getting the shaft now. Don't it?

4DTV still is a viable form of entertainment. It may be missing some nitch channels but is very good for movies and pizza high tier channels. Anyone who jumped ship to pizza helped it get to the point it is today. We don't have the numbers we once had they all sold out to pizza and see how pizza treats them. So when pizza's HD get bitstarved to death at 3mbps and looks like total crap I will say good for those who jumped ship. You should have stayed and supported 4dtv. You could have had a new receiver with the masters and the HD quality we see with DVB. But some people never learn. You can't bite the hand that feeds you.

4DTV still is a viable form of entertainment. It may be missing some nitch channels but is very good for movies and pizza high tier channels. Anyone who jumped ship to pizza helped it get to the point it is today. We don't have the numbers we once had they all sold out to pizza and see how pizza treats treats them. So when pizza's HD get bitstarved to death at 3mbps and looks like total crap I will say good for those who jumped ship. You should have stayed and supported 4dtv. You could have had a new receiver with the masters and the HD quality we see with DVB. But some people never learn. You can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Maybe it'll take some new people with a vision to get it going again. Rather than the greed that's putting it "far out of reach" for most people.

Maybe it'll take some new people with a vision to get it going again. Rather than the greed that's putting it "far out of reach" for most people.

One can only hope. I think the next big thing that will happen will be the new FTA services trying to start up. Pricing on pay tv has gotten totally out of hand. Their excessive greed is going to be there downfall.

Those ads are good to wipe my you know what with. Do that with pizza ad's all the time :D

Oh really? I find the glossy coated ones I get are kinda like wiping with wax paper......only rougher. :D

4DTV still is a viable form of entertainment. It may be missing some nitch channels but is very good for movies and pizza high tier channels. Anyone who jumped ship to pizza helped it get to the point it is today. We don't have the numbers we once had they all sold out to pizza and see how pizza treats them. So when pizza's HD get bitstarved to death at 3mbps and looks like total crap I will say good for those who jumped ship. You should have stayed and supported 4dtv. You could have had a new receiver with the masters and the HD quality we see with DVB. But some people never learn. You can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Oh gee it's all my fault. If I had only stuck it out with my NPS subscription for a few more years, I could have had a new receiver with the masters and the HD quality we see with DVB. Really?

ESPN may be a niche channel to you, but I think 4dtv lost a lot of subscribers because it was no longer available.

I am very satisfied with Dish Network HD. Is it the best HD out there? Of course not. TNT and CBS DVB-S2 backhauls at 50 to 60 Mbps are the best that I've seen.

I'm glad you enjoy the 4dtv SD masters. But I prefer Dish HD. I don't like the distortion caused by stretching 4x3 material to 16x9 and I prefer the sharper image. Dish HD improved noticeably when they switched to Mpeg 4.

I have not seen dish since mpeg 4 but i know one day most providers including cable will be able to pass full bandwidth of the masters across their systems. it will be a big improvement.
I used to argue the point but i do believe c band subscription will go away in the near future...i could be wrong but.....

HBO has a DVB-S2 master mux on Galaxy 14 with 10 HD channels:eek:. The channels are all H.264 running from 5.43 Mbps to 6.25 Mbps. I wish they would go FTA so I can see what they look like.

The only ones that get to see a quality master thats encrypted is the guy in the control room or at a headend (some stations never go FP). What's the sense of sending out a super quality master when the end result is never seen by the consumer. Bitstarving is bitstarving and will never go away (it's all about a buck). They will slowly keep stretching the Mpeg 4 codec till they kill any benefits. Then what Mpeg 6? Once you throw something away you never get it back. I don't care how good a codec is suppose to be. One day pizza will be a thing of the past as more and more fiber is used. All subscription tv will come over the internet, that's where the future lies. Then we will hack into the backbone fiber to see feeds. :eek:

If pizza never came about 4DTV would rule the sky's till fiber killed it.