Hi,

As some of the people that have been visiting some of the FTA forums, I'm too having problems with my FTA installation.

I have a WS9036 hooked to an SG9120 (backyard). The motor seems to be working fine (I can move it using the receiver). I followed all the instruction to set the system up, but still have no luck (plumed pole) . I got a dual Universal LNBF and I'm still stuck with the same results (70% strength and no quality). If I connect the old DTV dish that I have on the roof I'm able to pick up the channels from DishNetwork (just the help ones).

Now, the weird part is this: when I grab the LNBF and connected directly to the receiver (inside the house), I'm still getting 70% of strength (!!!). Does that mean a bad LNBF?. At this point I'm running out of ideas, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Universal LNB's (freq. 10.7-12.75mhz) have a LNB LO frequency of 9750/10600.

Check to see if those settings are correct. :)

Thanks Gary, yes the LNB frequency is setup to 9750/10800 in the receiver. Any ideas?

You have it set to 9750/10600 or 9750/10800?

Did you start with you true south Satellite? This should be the first on you try to get.
If this is your first motorized setup, you may have better luck taking the motor off and try you true south Satellite without the motor, once you have that locked in and verified working... you can them but the motor back on and try to align it... use dishpointer.com come for you settings.

How to set up a Ku Band motor


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AASB2jRyGPI

Thanks Gary. You are correct, the setting I had in the receiver was 9750/10600 (sorry for the confusion). I actually saw the video you posted (and several others as well) two days ago when I started the installation.

I did set up the dish (using dishpointer.com) pointing to the True South (in my case, for zipcode 01852, true south would be 72W). I tried to blind scan AMC6 (72W) with no luck at all (I moved the dish around with the motor and by hand as well but no luck). I also entered 12143 V 2573 and 12068 V 9755 TPs and tried to scan those (same thing for other strong Tps) but nothing.

If the LNB still shows the same strength inside the house (no dish just the LNB connected to the receiver), does that mean the LNB is dead?.

No , it only means all the connections to the LNB are OK therefore there is Voltage "Strengh" at the LNB. You only worry about Quality from now on. If this is your firs time aiming a dish it always takes time and could even be days, so be patient.

Make sure the TP you use for aiming is active and very strong in your area. I would follow the suggestion to first only connect the receiver straight to the LNB (bypass the motor) and try to lock the first signal then. Also bypass any switch to make it simple. When rotating the dish move very very slowly in very short steps and always wait a few seconds for the receiver to lock.

As per Lyngsat the best choice should be 12148V SR 2573 but this is a low SR signal so it could take longer on some receivers and most will not even blind scan it probably. So use the Manual Scan settings using this TP and be extremely patient instead of blind scanning the bird. That bird is mostly feeds anyways and the other TP , KTFL, I remember was very weak at least for me.

Thank you hd fan!. I have been testing this the whole afternoon and nothing.

I took everything apart and re-assembled without the motor. I have been moving the elevation gradually and pointing the dish to different birds (from the string TP list) and nothing. The quality hasn't even moved, so at this point I'm not quite sure what else to do.

Any suggestion at this point would help (except my wife's one: "to the dumpster")

Thanks!

Don't give up. :)

When you move the dish to different birds do you change to an active transponder on the Satellite?

You true south bird AMC 6 has a fairly strong transponder 12148 V SR 2573

12052 v SR 06.890 also comes in strong here. I would keep trying until you can get AMC6 then get you motor going. One trick you can try is if you think you have it aimed correctly do a blind scan and see what you get.

Thank you Gary. I tried all of that changing every single possible variable, but it seems that it just wasn't meant to be.

Before I take drastic measures, is there any way to check if the LNBF is broken? I assume that my receiver is fine because I can scan all the Dish Network channels without a problem (with my old DTV dish on the roof) in both tuners (unless it only captures circular polarization signals?).

At this point, any idea would do, Thanks!

If you had a meter you could check the LNB. Are you sure you cable is good from dish to the receiver? No switches? If you have another LNB you could try that?

From the Tip of the Iceberg

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/66143-tip-iceberg.html

when aiming a dish, move dish no more than 1/8th of an inch at a time, wait 5 seconds for receiver to notice signal, then move again

proper skew can make the difference in between no signal and awesome signal

check all coax connections. A bad connection can make the difference

Another tip from Iceberg is---When having difficulties setting up a dish, most people blame the LNB as not working and 99% of the time it is NOT the LNB

Main thing is don't give up. I am sure more of the guys will be on later tonight with some more ideas. We are glad to help here and the guys have helped many people get there dish up an running. If it gets too frustrating walk away for awhile. I can tell you it took me almost week to get mine set up properly a first. Now my son can go out there and move one of my dishes to another Satellite and get a decent signal in about 5 minutes a little longer to get it tweaked.



Thank you Gary. I tried all of that changing every single possible variable, but it seems that it just wasn't meant to be.

Before I take drastic measures, is there any way to check if the LNBF is broken? I assume that my receiver is fine because I can scan all the Dish Network channels without a problem (with my old DTV dish on the roof) in both tuners (unless it only captures circular polarization signals?).

At this point, any idea would do, Thanks!

is there any way to check if the LNBF is broken?
If the receiver shows a Signal Strength reading, it's probably good.

Make sure you are looking in the correct place for the Dish Elevation and Motor Latitude, it's not always marked or clear.

Plumb Pole
Motor Lat scale set to your Latitude
Dish Elevation set to recommended
Have receiver drive motor to Zero
In receiver's setup menu, be sure to have Active / Hot transponder selected for your Ture South Sat (the Sat that is closest to you Longitude)
Loosen motor mount bolts just enough to twist on pole
Aim well East of your target, and slooooooowly twist the Motor / Dish to the West watching for the Quality meter to light up. If nothing, raise the Dish Elevation 2 degrees and twist back to the East. After a couple passes and nothing, return Dish Elevation to recommended, and repeat scanning process, but lower Dish elevation.

Good Luck

What model LNBF have you got there Jivv?
-C.

Thank you Gary Lak7 and Cham.

I'll give another try tomorrow, time is running out (wife is getting exasperated and is pushing for a removal)

I followed your procedure Lak7 with no luck (the night just caught me so I may continue tomorrow morning).

Cham, I'm using a "Pearl Edition" Twin universal (Pearl Edition- Universal Linear KU Twin LNB (http://www.satmaximum.com/ku_lnb_twin.php)).

Thank you for all the help!

What do you have entered in the Receiver for LNB settings?
Can you post pictures?

Hi Lak7,

I put "Universal" LNB (automatically adjust to 9750/10600). I'll post pictures tomorrow morning.

Thanks!

Look at your LNB, it should be marked with the proper Freq (L.O.)
may look like:
9750/10600
or
10.750

It's not Plug N Play, you must enter all the correct info for it to work.

Hi Lak7,

The Local Oscillator frequencies for this LNB are 9.75/10.60 Ghz. Those are the values that the receiver adjust once you put universal. I tried using "Single" and adjusting the LNB frequencies manually but I got the same results.

I'll check tomorrow morning again.

Thanks!

The Local Oscillator frequencies for this LNB are 9.75/10.60 Ghz.
That looks good. I didn't see your other post with the info.

Which Sat & TP are you trying for?

Hi Lak7,

I tried pretty much most of the ones posted in http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/85225-i-need-strong-transponder-aim-my-dish.html , but mainly I was concentrating in:

72 (AMC6)-12143 V 2573 or 12068 V 9755 12148 V SR 2573
107.3 (AnikF1)-11902 H 5859 or 11912 H 5859
111.1 (AnikF2)-11831 V 7300


Thanks!

JIVV,
What receiver are you using?????????
Mike Lib

Hi Mikelib,

I'm using a Sonicview Elite

Thanks

Is AMC6 at 72 west your true south?

Hi Lak7,

According to dishpointer.com my True South (zip 01852) coincides with AMC6. I'm attaching a picture of the settings on the receiver side.

I was trying to find information about testing an LNB (with a multitester or something like that), but all I have seen is "put it on the receiver to see if it works" or "buy an LNB tester" which at this point is out of the question. Any suggestions on that area would help,

Thanks!

The TP you have listed is not Active / Hot
See if 12143 in listed

Tanks Lak7. I added 12143 V 2573 and moved the dish around slowly. I did a blind scan too and nothing

Things to check...
Have receiver drive Motor to "Zero", using "Go to 0" if possible
You have the Motor Lat Scale (not "Elevation") set to your Lat using the correct "indicator" usually not the Bolt.
Dish is set to recommended Elevation for use with your Brand Motor.
Take a Compass and wooden broom handle, lay broom handle on flat ground and align to True South Azimuth. That serves as a guide of where to point the Dish.

Can you post Pics of the Dish & Motor settings?

Hi Lak7,
I was trying to find information about testing an LNB (with a multitester or something like that)
if you have a multi-meter with a setting to check diodes, you can do a rough check of the lnb.
when hooking the positive terminal of the meter to the center conductor and the negative to the outside conductor it should read somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.5v
when hooking the neg to the center and the pos to the outside it should read somewhere around 1.8v
every ku lnb that i have seen that was completely dead read either shorted both ways or open both ways using a diode check
while im on the subject, c-band lnbs may read different, i have not had enough experience with them to know for sure.
it is possible that other things can go wrong with them that this test will not check
(frequency drift, oscillation, and moisture getting inside to name a few)
but in 9 years, i have never seen a ku lnb that passed this test not at least work a little bit.
if it reads shorted both ways or open both ways with a diode check, you know its bad.
hope this helps,
Denny

Tanks Lak7. I added 12143 V 2573 and moved the dish around slowly. I did a blind scan too and nothing

If you're trying to find a signal on AMC-6 72W why don't you try 12055 V 6890? it's a strong signal here in Calif. I get 92% QS

If you're trying to find a signal on AMC-6 72W why don't you try 12055 V 6890?
That's even better.

That's even better.

even though 72W has this strong TP, it was still a struggle for me to lock on when aiming the dish, I don't know why but maybe because it's a very narrow beamwidth but once you're on, you're good to go

Thanks everybody. I'm attaching now some pictures of the setup.

I tried 12143 V 2573 with some adjustments to the dish as well but nothing.

I'll try to check the LNB now with the tester.

Thanks

From what I see.....
Declination is not the same as Dish Elevation.
You are about due East of me, I'm at Lat 41.6
You Dish Elevation should be about 23
Depending on the Motor, Dish Elevation is "Motor Bend" minus Declination
For me, it's Motor Bend = 30 minus Declination 6.5
30 - 6.5 = 23.5 Dish elevation

EDIT: You Dish Elevation should be about 23, you are at 66

Thanks Gary. I changed the Declination angle to 40-Declination (that's what the manual for this motor showed, now is 34 roughly), did some minor adjustments on the perimeter but still no quality (My elevation is still at 47). I will check the LNB now.

Thanks

I changed the Declination angle to 40-Declination
That is not the Declination angle, it's the Dish Elevation angle
I would try more towards 23
Motor Elevation is set according to the Motors Manual

What is you exact Lat and Long?

Hi Gary,

I checked in a different website and it seems that the marks on the side (where the metal triangle is) are used to set the Dish angle based on the declination. In my case the Declination angle is 6.6 and the marks on the side 1 2 3 4 5 are 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 - 50. For this motor, SG9120, the manual says the Dish angle should be set up to 40-Declination, which is roughly 33 (or 3.3 following the marks on the dish).

Are you saying this is not the way to set it up (WS9036 comes with no instructions regarding this, so here I'm kind of on my own)?

Thanks!

40 minus 6.6 (Declination) = 33.4 Dish Elevation - where the Triangle is

Well, it seems that the LNB is not bad (I found no shorts and there was different readings from pos-center to neg-side and vice versa).

Sadly, I'm going to start removing everything (including the pole that I had to put in the backyard).

I would like to thank all of you for your patience and guidance, but it just wasn't meant to be. It was too much time invested with no results so my wife has demanded that I cut my loses.

Thanks you for all the help!

I would like to thank all of you for your patience and guidance, but it just wasn't meant to be. It was too much time invested with no results so my wife has demanded that I cut my losesI'd try without the motor, just mount the Dish to the Pole, reset the Dish Elevation, and try again.

Also, since you have DirecTV LNBs available, you can mount one one your Dish and locate the Dish Net Sat at 61.5. Then switch back to the other LNB, reset Elevation and sloooowly pan the Dish west.

Hi Lak7,

Thanks for the advice, but I already tried that yesterday afternoon (after testing the LNB). I spent most of the afternoon manually scanning basically all the satellites available to me (without the motor on the pole) with help of dishpointer.com (I set up the skew by hand).
No quality whatsoever, tried several different cables from the LNB to the receiver and nothing.

Thank you anyway for the advice!

If you have a Signal Reading, the wiring should be good.
1 day is not very long for a first time setup.
You tried to fine the Dish Net Sat at 61.5 west? Did you remember to set the proper LNB L.O.?

Well, it seems that the LNB is not bad (I found no shorts and there was different readings from pos-center to neg-side and vice versa).

Sadly, I'm going to start removing everything (including the pole that I had to put in the backyard).

I would like to thank all of you for your patience and guidance, but it just wasn't meant to be. It was too much time invested with no results so my wife has demanded that I cut my loses.

Thanks you for all the help!

Why would you want to give up so easily? after all the investment, you have one last thing to check before throwing in the towel. have you verified that your receiver is working correctly? Receivers can appear to work, they can boot up, navigate the menu, etc., but if the LNB voltage tap on the power supply is smoked then you won't get any signal. This occurs when you've make and break LNB coax connections without turning the stb power off. I have repaired 2 stb's due to this because 2 of my friend's played around with their dishes and then called me to rescue them. If you have another stb or access to one, try it! :)
EDIT: Most power supplies can be repaired easily. Capacitors blow easily when you don't power off the stb.

Yes please don't give up you have so much invested to let the thing beat you. My wife sounds a lot as yours; she gets very unhappy when I try a hobby. I told her that I could mess with my satellite dish in my yard or be like a lot of husbands and do things that took me from home. She dropped the subject because I told her I really enjoyed this hobby although at times it can be flustrating.

Just recently I tried to setup a Primestar dish and dude I was wound like a rubber band over that thing. I knew dang well I had the thing on a Satellite according to my meter. When I would come inside to do a blind scan I got no signal q at all...checked transponders, doubted my settings everything.

I stuck with it and although I landed on a Satellite I did not intend to get on at least I got it on one and felt a huge sense of relief! Sadly though Now I have to go back and move it again! HAhaha to get it on the one I Did intend!

Hi Mcguyver,

Would it be possible to have an issue with the receiver if I can still get the DishNetwork Channels (scrambled, but I still get them) with a DirecTV antenna that I have on the roof?.

Hi Mcguyver,

Would it be possible to have an issue with the receiver if I can still get the DishNetwork Channels (scrambled, but I still get them) with a DirecTV antenna that I have on the roof?.

Not likely, if it works for DSS signals it should work for linear as well. you're comparing 2 different dishes and 2 diff' signal types, DSS are very strong and easy to lock on. chances are it's only a matter of dish alignment especially if it's a motorized setup. It took me about a week to setup my first motor, had a lot to learn and understanding the concept was very crucial. Now it's a breeze, I just setup another motor 2 days ago and it was easy as 123. If you understand what to do and set it right it should be close enough to get some signals to work with. Don't give up, you're too close for that! :cool:

if i was you, i would try to point the dish without the motor first.
crawl before you walk, or do addition before you do algebra, so to speak
try removing the motor completely, and point it at a satellite, then scan in your channels, then try another.
this way you can familiarize yourself with this setup before doing the more complicated task of installing the motor.

The OP needs a little success to build confidence. I wouldn't worry about the motor until you know how to find a satellite.

I suspect the OP needs a little better luck in aiming.

1. With a known good strong transponder set on the receiver.
2. And while being able to see the Signal Strength and Signal Quality while aiming,
3. Start low and raise the dish where the LNBF goes up about a quarter of an inch at a time.

When you get close to the Clarke Belt, the Signal Strength will go up. As you keep aiming farther up, the strength will go back down. I don't know about your receiver. But the increase might be small (2-5 points, but it should be measurable) Don't worry about the quality yet.

Move the dish a little high and temporarily fix the elevation. Use that as a starting point.

Then, I would try the attached search box method.

Make small incremental movements and at some point, the quality will jump. Once you are close, make smaller adjustments.

When you get frustrated, my Macintosh buddy said what works for him is a Coke and a Smoke. That means when he gets frustrated, he takes a break. After he has a Coke and a Smoke, his perspective has changed and he's not so frustrated. With a fresh look on things and a chance to think about the situation, he will have a better outlook to solve the problem.

I don't smoke and I don't drink Coke, but it works for me too.

PS. Some people have success right away. For an hour at a time with lots of breaks in between, I had to try over for a week to aim my first Ku linear polarized satellite dish. (this was after setting up a Dish Network pizza dish, no problem) Now three years later, I have eight dishes approximately, in my back yard. :)

Does anyone live close to jivv? Maybe they could go and help him get his setup up and running. :eureka:

Does anyone live close to jivv? Maybe they could go and help him get his setup up and running. :eureka:
jivv,

Where in Mass are you located???

Mikelib

Hi All,

Thank you for all the suggestions. I already took it apart (haven't removed the pole yet) so the wife stops complaining. I may order a new LNB just in case, but if I do any testing it would have to be next weekend (during weekdays is impossible for me).

I was checking the internal LNB diagram and the measurements I got from the Multitester seem accurate (output zener 0.6v forward, open circuit reverse) but that doesn't say to much about the gain stage. That part got me thinking because of the strength level never changed even though I was moving from my True South (AMC6) to Anik F3 and other satellites with strong transponders

I'll check with one of my co-workers to see if he has any comment on how to check if the gain stage of the LNB (he'll probably say that is not worth even waste the time on it and buy a new one).

I will give an update next week if I find anything. Thank you for all the help and support but if this thing is going to work I would have to do it myself (that is the whole purpose of this project) and not have someone else doing it for me.

Thanks!

Jivv,

I just set up a system this weekend north of you, using AMC6 as my true south. Don't get discouraged, it was not easy, and way harder than the old DirecTV setup I had. I reset to tru south three times and went over all of the settings multiple times before I figured out where I was off, which turned out to be a combination of a mis-setting in the receiver, a slight off on the motor elevation, and a slight off on the dish setting. I was suprised that it is literaly fractions of an inch between no and good signal, I to thought things were broken for a bit. I finally took a whole lot of directional bearings for galaxy 19 and amc 6, and kept working the motor between the two tweaking for four hours. After that I went to AMC21 and was still on the arc. Then I ran cable and moved everything inside.

My two suggestion for a newbie...

#1 Have a TV and receiver right next to the dish so you can see and hear the signal. It was the only way I could make it work.

#2 Don't try and rush it. It is really something you need ALOT of time to do. I have a background in electronics, etc. and my first time this weekend took 6 hours AFTER I had the equipment plumbed and assembled.

Tell the wife to relax, its a cheap hobby, better than drinking :)

Jivv,

I am confused as to the TPs that you are seeking. If you are searching for satellite 72.0°W AMC 6, I think that you should be utilizing the TPs 11891 H (SR 1666) and 12053 V (SR 6890). These are the KFTL-CA and NBC SAT MUX TPs, respectively.

Your setup and configuration seems correct for a Universal LNBF (9750/10600 for the L.O. frequency on a Universal LNBF).

Try these instead of 12068 V (SR 9755).

RADAR

In this Pic, you have the LNB Skewed?
On a Motorized setup it is to be set at "0" .

Hi All,

I just wanted to give you guys an update. I put the whole system back together (day off, no wife in the house) and managed to find someone (from work) who I could borrow a LNB (Single) from. He also gave me one of his satellite finders. I tested his LNB and I was able to find my true South without an issue, then I switched LNBs and when I was moving my dish from west to east and there was practically no difference in tone at all (unlike the single one which was very pronounced). I was able to lock some satellites with his LNB but not with mine (I did the same exercise changing the setting from Universal to Single in the receiver when using mine but still nothing), so I called the vendor and he agreed to send me a replacement (I should have it by next week).

I'll play a little bit more with this thing during the weekend (nice weather finally). But I think now I'm on the right track.

Thank you for all the help and patience!

Ex-frustrated newbie

Bummer, bad parts. At least you know how to do it now. You may want to grab a couple of lnbfs to keep for spares, I always have one or two stand-bys, never know when one might blowup!

Hi All,

I just wanted to give you guys an update. I put the whole system back together (day off, no wife in the house) and managed to find someone (from work) who I could borrow a LNB (Single) from. He also gave me one of his satellite finders. I tested his LNB and I was able to find my true South without an issue, then I switched LNBs and when I was moving my dish from west to east and there was practically no difference in tone at all (unlike the single one which was very pronounced). I was able to lock some satellites with his LNB but not with mine (I did the same exercise changing the setting from Universal to Single in the receiver when using mine but still nothing), so I called the vendor and he agreed to send me a replacement (I should have it by next week).

I'll play a little bit more with this thing during the weekend (nice weather finally). But I think now I'm on the right track.

Thank you for all the help and patience!

Ex-frustrated newbie
Congratulations’, in this hobby patients and determination really count.