Hello, all!

After spending a number of years investigating FTA, I finally more or less dove into it. I took some pictures and wrote up my experience on my website: Free-to-Air Satellite Done Dirt Cheap - RabbitEars Blog (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2011/02/20/Free-to-Air-Satellite-Done-Dirt-Cheap)

So now that I have it up and running, I want to fine-tune it to some extent since I've got a lot of transponders that are not decoding anything even though they're showing signal strength. I moved the LNB around enough to get Al Jazeera up to 66-67% on my receiver, with 65% being needed for a clean decode. A lot of the weaker transponders are sitting at 60-62%, below decoding. I'm thinking that the problem is no longer the location of the LNB, now that I've fine-tuned that, and that the dish itself needs to be tweaked.

Any opinions on this? If it's the dish itself, then I'll probably just leave it and do without the other channels, but if my LNB placement can be further adjusted, I'll definitely do that.

Thanks, all. :)

- Trip

Once you get a studier mount and tweak the aim of the dish, you should be able to get most of the channels on that satellite.
For a temporary fix, I guess it isn't bad! But you really need a stable, vertical pole to mount the dish on, that won't slide or tilt in the wind. Dishes that come with their own feedhorn usually work best with that feedhorn, as it keeps the exact focal distance for optimal signal,but using a simple little lnbf like you have there will work too.

I looked at the feedhorn that came with it and couldn't figure out how I would attach that to an LNB. Is there some trick to it? Because I can put it back on if there's a way to do that.

- Trip

I saw your LNB mount. Iceberg would be proud! :D

A linear LNB should be able to be mounted on the original feed horn and will provide a superior signal compared to the after market generic LNBF. The LNBF that you have attached is designed to receive signals from a rounded and less oblong shaped dish, but you should receive signals just fine if it is placed in the exact position as the original feed horn.

It does not appear that the LNBF rotation (Skew) is properly set for Virginia to receive the linear polarized signals. This might be just the angle that the photograph was taken, but this is very critical to optimize the Signal Quality. The Skew setting for your LNBF (or complete dish / LNBF) on the east coast for Galaxy 19 should be approximately positive 20 degrees ( counter clockwise if viewed while standing in front of the dish looking into the reflector). The Signal Quality reading may also be maximized by sliding the LNBF towards or way from the reflector.

On the back of the dish are some bolts that allow it to rotate with numbers showing the degrees of skew. Dishpointer.com said it should be 22 degrees, so I set it at that value according to the back of the dish at least. Of course, those numbers assume the dish is on a plumb pole... maybe I'll add some more skew when time permits.

Or do you mean the LNB itself should be rotated? I can do that too.

- Trip

On the back of the dish are some bolts that allow it to rotate with numbers showing the degrees of skew. Dishpointer.com said it should be 22 degrees, so I set it at that value according to the back of the dish at least. Of course, those numbers assume the dish is on a plumb pole... maybe I'll add some more skew when time permits.

Or do you mean the LNB itself should be rotated? I can do that too.

- Trip

In your case, the rotating dish mount will provide the appropriate skew, but fine-tuning this setting will peak your quality. Also try sliding the LNBF in or away from the reflector to place the feed horn in the optimal position.

Is the new LNBF set at the same height as the original feed horn? Is it aimed at the same point in the reflector? As you can see, the dish is an offset design, so if the LNBF is not placed in the "Sweet Spot" or focal point of the reflector design, signals will not be optimally reflected into your new LNBF.

In your case, the rotating dish mount will provide the appropriate skew, but fine-tuning this setting will peak your quality. Also try sliding the LNBF in or away from the reflector to place the feed horn in the optimal position.

Okay, I will play with the skew when I have a chance. I already tried moving it closer and further and I've just about peaked it. I've seen solid 67% with flashes of 68%. Right now it's bouncing between 66% and 67% since I went out to put some electrical tape on the coax connection to prevent it from getting wet in tomorrow's rain.


Is the new LNBF set at the same height as the original feed horn? Is it aimed at the same point in the reflector? As you can see, the dish is an offset design, so if the LNBF is not placed in the "Sweet Spot" or focal point of the reflector design, signals will not be optimally reflected into your new LNBF.

I think it's ever so slightly higher than the feedhorn was, given that the arm was made to hold the feedhorn and I'm resting the LNB on top of that piece. As for how it's pointing, I think it's similar, though now that you mention it, I'm not sure. I have it resting with as much of it touching the piece on the end of the arm as possible, so I would hope that it's at least close.

- Trip

Trip, Keep at it and you'll get it. There's a lot of stuff to see on 97w. Also a bunch of radio channels. On a side note I thought I recognized the name Trip from the Cincinnati AVS forum. I'm a longtime lurker there..only posted a few times over the years though. Welcome to the wonderful world of FTA....Blind

have you tried peaking the lnb angle ? press down/up slightly at the end of the lnb

Trip, Keep at it and you'll get it. There's a lot of stuff to see on 97w. Also a bunch of radio channels. On a side note I thought I recognized the name Trip from the Cincinnati AVS forum. I'm a longtime lurker there..only posted a few times over the years though. Welcome to the wonderful world of FTA....Blind

Thanks. :)


have you tried peaking the lnb angle ? press down/up slightly at the end of the lnb

Yes, I've done this since my rope isn't exactly the sturdiest method of attachment. I've found lots of positions where it's there but not strong enough, and exactly one where it maxes out, so far.

Thanks, all, for the help thus far. When the weather clears up and my schedule clears out, I will try to heed some of the advice offered here. :)

- Trip

Hello again, all:

I'm now home for Spring Break. At Winterfest on Sunday the 27th, I found a round 30" dish with LNB for $10 and decided to use it with a mast we had at the radio club in order to do a setup at home. I have set it up and have excellent success.

I've got Al Jazeera at 67-69%, higher than I've ever seen this box go, and almost everything scans in. I'll be taking some pictures and whatnot later in the day, but for now, I have a few questions.

1) Is 12177 the weakest transponder up there? It scanned in without labels and doesn't decode anything, not that I'm missing it.

2) Why does Press TV fail to scan in? If I manually set the PIDs, it's perfectly watchable, but on a manual scan of the transponder or blind scan, it doesn't show up.

3) My box now no longer seems to scan in 12053, where Al Jazeera is, on blind scan. It only scans it in when I do a manual scan of that transponder, in which case it scans them in instantly.

4) 11911 does not appear on Lyngsat, but seems to be up there with plenty of strength. Is this just an empty transponder?

I suspect 2 and 3 to just be quirks of my box, but I'd be really curious to know if there's some reason for it.

Also, unrelated, but I noted that the box's firmware has the label "NORW" in it, which does not match the label of any of the firmware I found on the website here. What is it? Is it what I suspect it to be; namely, firmware for pirating commercial content? If so, is it safe to overwrite with the firmware available here, since I am only interested in free-to-air content? COOLSAT 6000 version .06 - Downloads - SatelliteGuys.US (http://www.satelliteguys.us/downloads.php?do=file&id=189)

Thanks for your time. =)

- Trip

There is , or was, a third party software writer that re-wrote some of the Coolsat models firmware, making some improvements. It could be software you are running came from that site. Not owning any Coolsats I'm not sure. If it blind-scans ok I think I'd leave it alone. As for the difference in frequencies, some receiver/lnb combinations may produce slightly changed tp numbers. I have one receiver that picks up one published tp I can think of ( 12053 mhz) at 12057.....so being off a few mhz won't matter. If you're not getting some of the transponders at all, could be the dish/lnb skew. Check to make sure you're getting both horizontal and vertical, if one polarity is much stronger it could be the skew needs tweaking.

I've run across a few transponders on 97w that even my Sathawk receiver skips over. The transponders were already loaded in the receiver so I scanned just that tp and the receiver found the channels it missed. If the lnb is off just a little that will also cause it to skip as well...Blind

Hello again, all...

...I noted that the box's firmware has the label "NORW" in it, which does not match the label of any of the firmware I found on the website here. What is it? Is it what I suspect it to be; namely, firmware for pirating commercial content? If so, is it safe to overwrite with the firmware available here, since I am only interested in free-to-air content? COOLSAT 6000 version .06 - Downloads - SatelliteGuys.US (http://www.satelliteguys.us/downloads.php?do=file&id=189)

Thanks for your time. =)

- Trip

Hi Trip,

You are doing well! Hope you have read all the stickies. I am sure you realize (if youve been reading) that you have a very nice FTA standard definition receiver in the CS 6K! Don't let it out of your hands!

As for the firmware "NORW", that is a hack thing. You can use it just fine for FTA. If you want to overwrite it with the legit firmware, you may do so easily. There is nothing special that you need to be concerned about, you cannot hose up this box. It is pretty foolproof that way. About the only thing you will have to do is re-scan your channels and reset a few simple menu items to your personal preference. If you research Channel Master by SharpC, you will find a very nice channel and sat / TP editor. You won't be able to directly communicate between the box and that program, you will have to use a special "loader" program to accompany it as a go-between, but it is pretty easy to use.

You can bypass having to rescan channels when you put a legit firmware into it by using Channel Master, but you will still have to reset the settings for everything. If you are not too deeply involved in how many satellites you have entered at this time, I would go ahead and install the legit firmware now and then start over from scratch as it will be more friendly for you now.

RADAR

Hello again, all:

First of all, I have photographs. Free-to-Air Satellite Done Dirt Cheap: Home Edition - RabbitEars Blog (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2011/03/08/Free-to-Air-Satellite-Done-Dirt-Cheap%3A-Home-Edition)


I've run across a few transponders on 97w that even my Sathawk receiver skips over. The transponders were already loaded in the receiver so I scanned just that tp and the receiver found the channels it missed. If the lnb is off just a little that will also cause it to skip as well...Blind

Interesting. I wonder what oddities might be causing this irregularity.


Hi Trip,

You are doing well! Hope you have read all the stickies. I am sure you realize (if youve been reading) that you have a very nice FTA standard definition receiver in the CS 6K! Don't let it out of your hands!

I'm glad to hear it. I do want to ultimately get a box that will do AC3/DVB-S2/HD, but that's down the line when I have a permanent and motorized setup with which I can bypass my irritating local PBS in favor of AMC21.

I wish the manual was more helpful though. I went through a bunch of trouble setting up a favorites list a few blind scans ago only to realize that I have no idea how to actually access it anywhere besides the "Edit Favorites" menu!


As for the firmware "NORW", that is a hack thing. You can use it just fine for FTA. If you want to overwrite it with the legit firmware, you may do so easily. There is nothing special that you need to be concerned about, you cannot hose up this box. It is pretty foolproof that way. About the only thing you will have to do is re-scan your channels and reset a few simple menu items to your personal preference. If you research Channel Master by SharpC, you will find a very nice channel and sat / TP editor. You won't be able to directly communicate between the box and that program, you will have to use a special "loader" program to accompany it as a go-between, but it is pretty easy to use.

Cool, thanks. The firmware I linked says something about "beep tone in dish setup" which is unclear, but if it's like the signal meter on the Zenith digital TV converter box that beeps differently depending on the signal level, then that's a feature I could really make use of. Do you, or anyone else reading, happen to know if that's what that means? If that's not it, then I don't have a reason to do anything to the firmware I don't think.


You can bypass having to rescan channels when you put a legit firmware into it by using Channel Master, but you will still have to reset the settings for everything. If you are not too deeply involved in how many satellites you have entered at this time, I would go ahead and install the legit firmware now and then start over from scratch as it will be more friendly for you now.

There are lots of satellites loaded in, but I've only ever looked at Galaxy 19, as it's the only one with content that I strongly desire that the box will decode. So no investment at all really. :)

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and encouragement. It is much appreciated. :)

- Trip

Hello again, all:

Cool, thanks. The firmware I linked says something about "beep tone in dish setup" which is unclear, but if it's like the signal meter on the Zenith digital TV converter box that beeps differently depending on the signal level, then that's a feature I could really make use of. Do you, or anyone else reading, happen to know if that's what that means? If that's not it, then I don't have a reason to do anything to the firmware I don't think.

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and encouragement. It is much appreciated. :)

- Trip

Trip,

Yes, that is what the "beep tone in dish setup" or "BEEP ON SIGNAL" means exacty. It changes tone or pitch and as the signal quality increases, the tone or pitch increases. This is very handy when you are outside in the sun with a portable TV for alignment. You sometimes cannot see the signal level bars on the TV very well with the glare. The tone really makes it simple.

I like to take a folding table outside (if I am playing with my dish in the yard - not on the roof :) ) and set the TV inside a deep cardboard box on the table so that the sun doesn't interfere with me trying to view the screen.

RADAR

trip, I looked at your pictures last night, and again tonight. Depending on how your dish is aimed , looks to me just from your first 2 pictures that you might be peeking through some tree branches. That could be part of the problem, when the leaves come back out-you'll know for sure. It's really hard to tell from that 2nd pic though, those offset dishes will fool you, and actually be looking OVER a tree that looks to be blocking it sometimes!

Yes, that is what the "beep tone in dish setup" or "BEEP ON SIGNAL" means exacty. It changes tone or pitch and as the signal quality increases, the tone or pitch increases. This is very handy when you are outside in the sun with a portable TV for alignment. You sometimes cannot see the signal level bars on the TV very well with the glare. The tone really makes it simple.

Indeed, it's a useful feature in dealing with terrestrial antennas as well, as I do significantly more often. :) I just noticed that the feature exists in the firmware that's currently installed, so since I don't have a straight-through serial cable (only null-modem), I'll hold off on replacing the firmware.

Thanks for the clarification. :)


I like to take a folding table outside (if I am playing with my dish in the yard - not on the roof :) ) and set the TV inside a deep cardboard box on the table so that the sun doesn't interfere with me trying to view the screen.

Makes sense to me.


trip, I looked at your pictures last night, and again tonight. Depending on how your dish is aimed , looks to me just from your first 2 pictures that you might be peeking through some tree branches. That could be part of the problem, when the leaves come back out-you'll know for sure. It's really hard to tell from that 2nd pic though, those offset dishes will fool you, and actually be looking OVER a tree that looks to be blocking it sometimes!

Yeah, I know I'm looking through the tree. I realized it when at one point I was seeing signal but couldn't get it high enough for a picture. I'll be anxious to see how it is when the leaves come out; I'm hoping that I'm looking over top of the tree now (I moved it back from where I started, so it's more likely to be looking over the top than it was at first).

It's raining again this evening and, so far, my signal's holding out at 65-66% on 12152, even though most of the rest have fallen to 63%. I'm hoping that this means my aim is now sufficient to hold it during all but the heaviest of showers. (As I said, all I'm really worried about is AJE and RT, so the other transponders don't worry me.)

I'm considering trying for AMC21 on the next nice day, just to see if I can get it, but I may not given that I now seem to have a good aim set up for G19 and I'd rather not screw it up. I'm assuming that this box will pass AC3 out of the optical jack on the back but otherwise will not decode it, is that correct?

Thanks again, folks. :)

- Trip

I'm assuming that this box will pass AC3 out of the optical jack on the back but otherwise will not decode it, is that correct?

Thanks again, folks. :)

- Trip

Yes Trip,

You are correct on this assumption. Your TV or audio system (or HTS) will have to do that job or you will have to get a converter (I don't recall what it is called right off the top of my head right now), but there is a device that can be used to decode the AC3 audio for you. My HTS accepted and transcoded that audio so I didn't have to fret about buying anything special, I just plugged it in and listened!

RADAR

Well, a bit of bad news. It seems my foray into FTA satellite is over in the short term. I got home from school today (Rush concert tomorrow) and even though I used it this morning before I left, my Coolsat 6000 Premium now no longer powers up. I opened it up and tested the voltages out of the supply, and other than the 3.3V providing 2.5V, all the others were correct. There was no obvious failure on the other board, so I'm assuming it's a failure in one of the ICs.

Does anyone have a magic remedy, or am I going to have to acquire another box?

(Good news for me is that I've borrowed the Amateur Radio Club's OpenBox S9 for the weekend, so at least I can watch Al Jazeera over the weekend. My goal had been a side-by-side test of the two receivers, but that seems moot now.)

If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Thanks, all.

- Trip

Just an update, I don't know if anyone is reading this, but I handed my box off to a friend who offered to look at it for me. He discovered that flexing the main board inside made it come back to life, leading him to believe it's a bad solder joint.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but he said it was cooperating with him after flexing the board that one time, so hopefully it will not be too flaky. In either event, once I graduate next month and get into a job, I'll be looking for a new receiver, be that a USB receiver or a new box.

- Trip

Well, a bit of bad news. It seems my foray into FTA satellite is over in the short term. I got home from school today (Rush concert tomorrow) and even though I used it this morning before I left, my Coolsat 6000 Premium now no longer powers up. I opened it up and tested the voltages out of the supply, and other than the 3.3V providing 2.5V, all the others were correct. There was no obvious failure on the other board, so I'm assuming it's a failure in one of the ICs.

Does anyone have a magic remedy, or am I going to have to acquire another box?

(Good news for me is that I've borrowed the Amateur Radio Club's OpenBox S9 for the weekend, so at least I can watch Al Jazeera over the weekend. My goal had been a side-by-side test of the two receivers, but that seems moot now.)

If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Thanks, all.

- Trip


Just an update, I don't know if anyone is reading this, but I handed my box off to a friend who offered to look at it for me. He discovered that flexing the main board inside made it come back to life, leading him to believe it's a bad solder joint.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but he said it was cooperating with him after flexing the board that one time, so hopefully it will not be too flaky. In either event, once I graduate next month and get into a job, I'll be looking for a new receiver, be that a USB receiver or a new box.

- Trip

Hey Trip,

Sorry to hear this about the 6K. That is not a typical problem, they are usually quite robust and durable units. It could be a cold solder joint, but it could also be a cracked or split circuit trace on the PC board. A poor or cold solder connection is easily identified most times (the solder will appear greyish in color as opposed to silvery) but a cracked circuit trace is very hard to locate (unless the board itself has been broken in half - then it is obvious of course).

You could go over the board with a high power microscope or even a very good magnifying lens to inspect the solder connections and resolder any that appear poor or questionable.

Then again, it may have just been a connector with a bad electrical contact. Unplugging and reseating all the connectors a couple of times might be all that you need.

If you decide to purchase a new STB, I would like you to investigate these models:

AZBox Premium Plus
OpenBox S9
Fortec Star Dynamic (or related model) - for SD only.

From others testimonials, and what I have witnessed personally, the OpenBox S9 sounds pretty good for the price and available options.

I have the AZBox and the Fortec Star (and the Coolsat 5K) and my brother has the Openbox. We have been comparing them all. Read up on the specs and the prices and make your decision. I don't think that you will go wrong.

RADAR

they are cheap these days. scored a few Visionsats off fleabay for ~$8 /each.

Hey Trip,

Sorry to hear this about the 6K. That is not a typical problem, they are usually quite robust and durable units. It could be a cold solder joint, but it could also be a cracked or split circuit trace on the PC board. A poor or cold solder connection is easily identified most times (the solder will appear greyish in color as opposed to silvery) but a cracked circuit trace is very hard to locate (unless the board itself has been broken in half - then it is obvious of course).

You could go over the board with a high power microscope or even a very good magnifying lens to inspect the solder connections and resolder any that appear poor or questionable.

Then again, it may have just been a connector with a bad electrical contact. Unplugging and reseating all the connectors a couple of times might be all that you need.

Well, when he gave it back to me today, we plugged it in and it again failed to power up. I brought it back here and opened it up, pushed on the board a bit, and it came to life. I had to reaim my dish as I think one of my roommates bumped it out on the deck, but all is back to normal for the time being.

I'm just going to deal with it and let it hold me over until I gain employment, after graduation, at which point I'll do some replacing.


If you decide to purchase a new STB, I would like you to investigate these models:

AZBox Premium Plus
OpenBox S9
Fortec Star Dynamic (or related model) - for SD only.

From others testimonials, and what I have witnessed personally, the OpenBox S9 sounds pretty good for the price and available options.

I have the AZBox and the Fortec Star (and the Coolsat 5K) and my brother has the Openbox. We have been comparing them all. Read up on the specs and the prices and make your decision. I don't think that you will go wrong.

RADAR

The Amateur Radio Club has an OpenBox S9 which is actually what I was using over the weekend to watch satellite TV while I was home. Lucky I decided to bring it home with me that weekend. I managed to catch "Good Night and Good Luck," one of my favorite films, on KTV2. I do like that receiver, though it was very green until the latest firmware update. I suspect I'll wind up with one, as the AZBox looks to be significantly more expensive.

HD is less important to me than AC3 and S2. I want to be able to watch PBS off the satellite, and I know that has AC3 audio and some of the feeds (OETA?) are in S2. (In an ideal world, MHz Worldview would still be available via FTA, but the world is sadly not ideal.)

By the way, do you or anyone else reading have any opinions on motors for dishes smaller than 1m? I'm thinking about one for my setup at home, plus the Amateur Radio Club VP wants to put one on the budget for next semester.

- Trip

HD is less important to me than AC3 and S2. I want to be able to watch PBS off the satellite, and I know that has AC3 audio and some of the feeds (OETA?) are in S2. (In an ideal world, MHz Worldview would still be available via FTA, but the world is sadly not ideal.)

By the way, do you or anyone else reading have any opinions on motors for dishes smaller than 1m? I'm thinking about one for my setup at home, plus the Amateur Radio Club VP wants to put one on the budget for next semester.

- Trip

From the description of your wants/needs the Openbox is exactly what you should get. HD, S2 and AC3 all-in-one. The only thing it doesn't do is 4:2:2.

As far as motors go I have a DG-380, STAB 90 and an old SG 2100. I haven't had issues with any of them but I would recommend going with the 380 or the SG9120 from Galaxy Marketing.

Something to verify is the diameter of the arm on the motor being compatible with the mounting bracket on your dish.

Well, looks like more bad news. As I suspected would happen, when the leaves came out, reception of G19 at home went right off the cliff. I tried moving the dish around, but couldn't get past the leaves with the length of coax that I have. I'll have to buy a longer coax and move it to a location clear of the tree.

I'll make sure to post an update once I do. I may also order a motor at the same time I order the coax, which would be nice to have.

- Trip

(Rush concert tomorrow) If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Rush fan eh? Excellent. Me too :)

As for rcvr recommendations I'd go with the Azbox Premium Plus. I had a Pansat 9200HD that locked up frequently and required major cooling modifications to get the cpu to run reliably. Once I saw the sports feeds and network programs in 4:2:2 on my AZ that I didn't get on my S-2 capable Pansat I was sold on the extra expense. Also if you're like most of us here you'll start out with a small ku band dish and motor then realize you'd like to get the channels on c-band. It certainly can be an addictive hobby.

Well, looks like more bad news. As I suspected would happen, when the leaves came out, reception of G19 at home went right off the cliff. I tried moving the dish around, but couldn't get past the leaves with the length of coax that I have. I'll have to buy a longer coax and move it to a location clear of the tree.

I'll make sure to post an update once I do. I may also order a motor at the same time I order the coax, which would be nice to have.

- Trip


Hope the longer coax works... Enjoying your thread and glad you got into FTA finally!

Rush fan eh? Excellent. Me too :)

Indeed. Witch Hunt is my favorite song. Ever. Of all time. :)


As for rcvr recommendations I'd go with the Azbox Premium Plus. I had a Pansat 9200HD that locked up frequently and required major cooling modifications to get the cpu to run reliably. Once I saw the sports feeds and network programs in 4:2:2 on my AZ that I didn't get on my S-2 capable Pansat I was sold on the extra expense.Well, I'm not a sports fan. I think I'd like the network feeds, but I'm not sure they're worth the added expense. If I didn't have a list of other things I need as well, the expense wouldn't bother me quite so much. I was hoping my current box would last me until I was employed and had those other things out of the way. I've decided to keep the current box on life support for as long as it will last, but if it completely dies too soon... the price difference may make the choice for me.

I'll definitely think on it.


Also if you're like most of us here you'll start out with a small ku band dish and motor then realize you'd like to get the channels on c-band. It certainly can be an addictive hobby.Oh, I already know I want one, I just have nowhere to put one right now! :)


Hope the longer coax works... Enjoying your thread and glad you got into FTA finally!

Thanks! I'm glad I got into it, too. I'll be more glad when I have a motor and a receiver with AC3 so I can get the PBS stuff that I want, in addition to G19. :)

- Trip

Tripinva,

Regarding motors for the smaller Ku-band dishes (or mini-buds) I like the PowerTech DG-280 and DG-380 motors.

RADAR

Hello again, all:

First of all, thanks AcWxRadar. I'm probably going to be looking to buy a motor very soon. I graduated yesterday, and with that came gift money. In fact, my parents are buying me the computer I want/need, thus freeing up the other money for the other things on my list.

So I'm trying to figure out where exactly to place my dish, which will determine how much coax I need to buy. I'm looking to be able to look at satellites from 72W to 125W, though I won't be upset if I can go further east than that. I made a chart of the elevations of selected satellites according to DishPointer:

72 W 46.5 degrees
74 46.8
79 47.0 - Closest to due South!
83 46.8
87 46.2
89 45.7
91 45.1
97 42.9
99 42.0
101 41.1
103 40.0
121 28.6
123 27.1
125 25.6

I also made a quick image using the map at DishPointer and an image editor.

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/Sat.png
(I'll be deleting this at some point.)

Indicated by the line on the map is 125W, lowest in the sky. The yellow dot is where the dish was in my pictures that I posted a few months ago, which is very near to where the coax needs to end. The red dots represent some of the nearest oak trees which are quite tall, except I think in one place I marked a shorter cedar tree by accident. (The nearest red dot due south of the green icon with the line to 125W.) It does not represent all of the oak trees in the forested areas. The green dots represent three places that look at least somewhat feasible. Each of them would likely require 200 feet of coax or more, I believe. The one behind the house I strongly suspect would need more than 200 feet. To get a frame of reference, I recall that there is about 180 feet of wire connecting the southern-most corner of the house to the corner of the barn, which you can see the shadow of and is just off-screen at the bottom.

I'm worried that the place indicated with the line might be looking into some of the trees, even though it seems like the best location as far as convenience goes.

What do you guys think?

- Trip

Satellites near true south won't be as much of an issue with line of sight, since they're higher in the sky. I would be concerned with the birds at the far ends of the arc. These are lower, and therefore the trees may interfere. Can't tell too much from the satellite photo, could you post point of view pics from the ground where your dish would be mounted?

It won't help you right now, but twice a year, spring and fall, the sun tracks your satellite arc. You can stand in spots where you are considering locating your dish and by using the time info on the website (which I do not have the link to) you can see the location of each visible sat in the arc, and can tell if you have clear line of sight to it.

As you have already seen, Dishpointer is a great tool, but if you don't know the height of your potential obstacles, it still leaves some guesswork.

I'll be getting home Friday and will take some pictures then. Just figured I'd try to get a jump on it with the satellite image.

I'm mostly worried about 125, which as you suggest, will be lowest in the sky. That's why I included the line for that one on the map.

I know that the more coax I use, the worse my loss will be, so I'm trying to figure out which one will be nearest while still working. I don't even know how much coax I can get away with before the reception degrades too severely.

Unfortunately, I don't know the exact heights of the trees, and I suspect that the most convenient placement will be looking through trees anyway. I'll likely need to get a protractor and stand at that point to see how high up I'm actually looking.

- Trip

........I know that the more coax I use, the worse my loss will be, so I'm trying to figure out which one will be nearest while still working. I don't even know how much coax I can get away with before the reception degrades too severely.....

From what I have read here on the forum there are several here that are running 200'+ with no issues (good quality RG6 coax), if you have to go much further than that I have seen RG11 recommended. RG11 requires different connectors and tools to work it, and is considerably more expensive.

Well, I got home today and it was raining. I did step outside during a break in the rain and check out the position I thought was most convenient... I think there's more tree cover than I thought. I definitely think I can grab 97W from that position, but I'm worried about 125W and 72W due to tree cover. Even 79W, due south, looks iffy, which would make setup of a motor rather challenging. If time and weather conditions allow, I'll try to snap a few photos tomorrow.

- Trip

Okay, so I went and took a few pics. You'll find them attached.

5 is my current tree-blocked setup aimed at 97W, to give a frame of reference. 6 backs away to transition out while keeping the frame of reference, and 7 and 8 are standing at the spot in question. I suspect I'd be okay on 97W but I'm not sure how far east or west I'd be able to see. I don't think it's wide enough, regardless. I measured and I believe 100 feet of coax would get me from my bedroom out to the dish placement. On a nice day, I might break out an extension cord and see what I can see from there with the current setup.

9 and 10 are in the driveway in front of the house, near one of my other spots. 9 looks more west, 10 more south. The only problem is that I'd have to run a significantly longer coax, otherwise it looks like it could be workable. I'm not anxious to do this one though.

11 and 12 are from way behind the house. 200 feet of coax minimum. 11 is looking more south, 12 more west. Sadly, next to the right-most fig tree in 12 is a VERY nice view of the whole sky where I'm sure it would work, but I'd never be able to put it there because of how far it is, plus it would mean the addition of yet another obstacle for the riding mower.

Unfortunately, without any frame of reference, these pictures probably don't help much. I might just have to do the old guess and check method of finding a decent location.

- Trip

I've forgotten, do you have your motor already? If so, you could do what I did to survey locations before I chose a permanent place for my dish: fasten the wall mount (you have a wall mount, right?) to a plank (you may have to put it together upside-down / backwards), put the motor on the wall mount, and then use stones or wood pieces to shim up the plank til the mount is level. It should get you close enough to let you check out most if not all of the arc, assuming that your receiver has a decent USALS implementation. (I never used diseqc 1.2, so I can't help you there. All I know is, if the pole is plumb and if the angle scales on your dish and motor are good enough to let you find one satellite, I never had any huge problems setting up USALS on something other than the southmost satellite. If your signal drops as you get away from the one you aligned with and you KNOW you're not looking at a tree, adjust the dish elevation til you get locked on, then go back to where you started and see if you still have it there. If you've lost it, it means that something isn't level.)

trip, JImS has a good idea there. I was going to suggest a mobile mount in a bucket or something placed in your possible locations , take a tv and receiver out in the yard, to test which satellites you can find, without the motor for now. Once you get the hang of manually locating the sats, it wouldn't take long to check which ones you can "see". From pic 11,12 I think that would be a workable location, but looks can be deceiving. Remember the dish is receving at an angle that is higher than it 'appears' to be aimed. Congratulations on graduation!!

If you have a smart phone definitely get the DishPointer App! No guessing with that App!

If no smart phone, print the "All Common Satellites" PDF on the http://www.GeoSatFinder.com66115 (http://www.GeoSatFinder.com) website. Grab a compass and an angle finder and go outside. In a few minutes you will know the perfect spot to place the dish to receive the most desired satellites.

The last thing you want to do is drag equipment around a yard and keep temporarily installing to see if you have line of sight. Tedious at best, but you would get real good at aiming! :D

See attached PDF for Charlotte Co., VA

66115

I've forgotten, do you have your motor already?

Not yet. I've been holding off on ordering it until I have some idea if it's even feasible. I've been looking at a SG9120B listed on eBay.


If so, you could do what I did to survey locations before I chose a permanent place for my dish: fasten the wall mount (you have a wall mount, right?) to a plank (you may have to put it together upside-down / backwards), put the motor on the wall mount, and then use stones or wood pieces to shim up the plank til the mount is level. It should get you close enough to let you check out most if not all of the arc, assuming that your receiver has a decent USALS implementation. (I never used diseqc 1.2, so I can't help you there. All I know is, if the pole is plumb and if the angle scales on your dish and motor are good enough to let you find one satellite, I never had any huge problems setting up USALS on something other than the southmost satellite. If your signal drops as you get away from the one you aligned with and you KNOW you're not looking at a tree, adjust the dish elevation til you get locked on, then go back to where you started and see if you still have it there. If you've lost it, it means that something isn't level.)
trip, JImS has a good idea there. I was going to suggest a mobile mount in a bucket or something placed in your possible locations , take a tv and receiver out in the yard, to test which satellites you can find, without the motor for now. Once you get the hang of manually locating the sats, it wouldn't take long to check which ones you can "see".

I'm actually thinking about this. My current setup looks like this anyway:

http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/public/FTA-Home/.P1010003_m.jpg

So it's easy enough to move around as needed. It's supposed to be really hot and sunny next week, so if I'm not on my way to a job next week, I might try it out in at least one of the locations.

Also, I'm not familiar with USALS. I own the Coolsat 6000 Premium which I've seen listed with that feature online. Would this allow me to aim my motorized dish without looking at the southern-most satellite? That would be helpful if I pick a compromise position that preserves 125W and 97W at the expense of some of the more southern ones like 79W.


From pic 11,12 I think that would be a workable location, but looks can be deceiving. It looks workable to me, too, except for the huge cable run to bury and my father won't be happy. :)


Remember the dish is receving at an angle that is higher than it 'appears' to be aimed.It took me a while to figure it out, but once I did, things started making more sense.


Congratulations on graduation!!Thanks! :D


If you have a smart phone definitely get the DishPointer App! No guessing with that App!

Nope, I don't waste my money on such things. :)


If no smart phone, print the "All Common Satellites" PDF on the http://www.GeoSatFinder.com66115 (http://www.GeoSatFinder.com) website. Grab a compass and an angle finder and go outside. In a few minutes you will know the perfect spot to place the dish to receive the most desired satellites. I love this document. Thanks!


The last thing you want to do is drag equipment around a yard and keep temporarily installing to see if you have line of sight. Tedious at best, but you would get real good at aiming! :DHaha, I'm not too awful at it right now. I managed to get Al Jazeera in at school on a mast that wasn't even close to plumb!

- Trip

Tripinva,

USALS will allow you to more easily set up your motorized system without looking at the most truest southern sat, you just need any sat with a good quality signal. If you are able to utilize the true southern satellite or one very close to true south, it does make the process much easier for both USALS and for DiSEqC 1.2. It makes things simpler to follow if you are setting up a motor for the first time, but it is not a mandatory practice and it doesn't make the finished product (the final alignment) any more accurate.

Having the Coolsat 6K at your disposal is a really great advantage for getting accustomed to setting up a motor using USALS (or DiSEqC 1.2). The (4K, 5K) and the 6K Coolsats are really user friendly in this matter. You can actually get creative and play around with all the different motor setup parameters and it won't "throw-up" on you. Some other receivers I have played with seem to freak out if you mess with certain settings or with too many settings at once. With these Coolsats, you can fool around with anything and everything. Even if you might be doing something wrong, it won't scramble the receiver. These are just one of those designs that were done very well, if you know what I mean. Of course, you already understand the limitations (being SD only), but that does not detract from the overall experience, in my opinion.

RADAR

Thanks for the informative description of USALS. :)

Well, today I went out with my extension cord and receiver and moved my satellite dish out to the preferred location nearest to the house. After getting the mast as level as I could, a half hour's worth of fighting with it got my signal on 12.080 GHz on what I can only assume is 125W up to 18%. Now, any other time I've used this box, I've gotten it to go to 10% and skip right up to 60%, though I know I've seen flashes of 15% before on its way up or down, so I'm not sure what to make of this 18% number. Could I be looking through the very top leaves of the tree? When I lost 97W to the tree last month, it dropped from 67% all the way down to the 4-6% it shows when there's no signal at all, which is what has me confused.

I tried for 97W briefly without seeing anything, though I didn't put a whole lot of effort into it before going back to 125W again.

I've decided that either tonight or tomorrow I'm going to order the motor and about 125-150 feet of RG11, unless RG6 would be just as good at those lengths. I suspect it's more length than I need, but I'd rather have too much than too little if I might be moving it around. When I get the coax and the motor, I'm going to move the dish back and a bit to the right, back in case I have a tree problem with 125W, and right in case I have a tree problem with 97W. (Based on where I am aimed for 125W, I can move right a little bit. Not a lot, but maybe a few feet.) I'm going to have to find a satellite with a strong TP somewhere around 110 I think in order to do my aiming on something that I know for sure isn't obstructed.

Thoughts are appreciated. :)

- Trip

Did you get any other transponders? I'm not sure if 12080 is on 125, I can't find a listing for it. There's one close to that on 123. What was the polarity and symbol rate?

Gah, I was looking for 12.080 when I MEANT to put in 12.180. I guess I'm going back out in the grass tomorrow.

EDIT: Is the difference in symbol rate the reason why the signal wouldn't climb above 18%? Lyngsat says the 12.080 on 123W is at about 3600 versus the 30000 I had entered. Does that mean my aim might be spot on 123W if I adjust the symbol rate down to match?

EDIT2: Just fired up the box without anything hooked up and it seems that I have two things in here, both of which are wrong. I have a 12.080 at a 6111 SR, and 12.180 at 16278 SR. I KNOW I set one of them at 30000, and I suspect it was the former, rather than the latter.

- Trip

You may be exactly aimed and not have a Signal Quality reading if the symbol rate was incorrectly entered.

The LNBF LO frequency, transponder frequency, polarity and symbol rate must all be correctly set for the receiver to lock onto the satellite signal and display a Signal Quality reading. Out at the dish the skew must be close as well as the elevation and azimuth setting within a fraction of a degree.

A compass and an angle finder would have provided all of the visible satellites information in 15 or 20 minutes. You really are taking the difficult route to verify line of sight!

I used a compass and a protractor and string with a weight and while the compass was pretty precise, I saw that 25° elevation was right near the top of the tree for that direction. I couldn't tell with enough precision whether or not I actually cleared it. I also lack a smart phone and do not know anyone within half an hour who has one so I can't use the recommended app (which does look really nice). So I figure this is probably the best way to be 100% sure.

Plus, were it not for the bugs resulting from the unpleasantly hot weather, I'd say this is fun. :)

- Trip

The answer is, yes, I am clearing the tops of the trees for 125W! :D

I went outside with my box and whatnot again, this time pre-programmed for 12.180. Hooked it up, got into the menu, moved the dish right a bit, down a bit, and it popped right in. Took less than 15 seconds to lock it in. Tuned to 12.140 and it wasn't quite coming through, so I adjusted it down a bit more. I've never seen this box get up to 91% quality before, but it did so on several of the PBS transponders. The HD feeds scanned with garbled video since the box doesn't support HD, but the SD feeds looked good! Got in all the DVB-S TPs, 12.140, 12.151, 12.163, 12.169, 12.175, and 12.180. There was also signal around 61% on 12.080 / 3680 but not strong enough for a decode.

Sadly, my box is growing ever closer to its end. The menus and whatnot are starting to look glitchy, and there are a few lines on the screen in certain places all the time now. I'm going to have to decide whether to get a new box or a USB receiver some time soon I think.

So today I'm going to order a motor and when it arrives, I'm going to set the thing up and see how it works. With any luck, I'll have a nice array of satellites to enjoy! :D

- Trip

You got the bug now! Once you get that first signal, you're hooked! HAHA
With the motor you'll find plenty more, (once you get the motor set up, you will have learned a whole new wrinkle to the hobby also)

Tripinva,

Just a little supporting information regarding the symbol rate value. You don't need to match what is shown on Lyngsat or SatBeams or other sources precisely when you enter this value manually or when it scans in if blind scanning is used. Let's say that the Symbol Rate is officially 4444 Ks/S. If you enter a SR of 4440 or 4448, it should still operate so you have some degree of error that can be applied. If you enter 5240 as the SR in this case, that is obviously too much error and it won't lock on.

I don't know how far away from the legit SR you can go (is it +/- 4 KS/s or is it +/- a % of the actual SR - I don't know for certain). There is obviously a limit, but what that limit is depends on the original broadcast signal and your receiver's ability or inability.

Back several years ago, there was some trouble with RTV on 83.0°W with interference from another signal. When the interfering signal was broadcasting, I would lose lock on RTV and pick up the other channel (although I couldn't view it). The RTV signal was so much weaker than the other signal that it would be buried or ignored as if it were simply cluttered background noise. I found that if I altered the SR far enough away from the interfering signal's SR, but still stay within the RTV signal's SR limits, I could maintain my signal lock on the RTV channel. So, you see you have some wiggle room here and sometimes it can be advantageous to you. Obviously, you should understand that you may only go so far with this concept and then you will begin to lose your lock on the intended channels.

It is the same with the TP frequency. Here you can be off by as much as +/- 5 MHz (i.e TP 12.180 could possibly lock in between 12.175 to 12.185 GHz). Whatever your system (LNBF + tuner combination) like the best is what you should select. Determining this is subject to experimentation.

Try to stick with what is officially reported for SR and TP frequency, but if you have troubles, remember that you may play with some of these settings to help improve your results (within limitations).

Now, a bit of advice regarding the motor setup. Before you begin, be sure that you have mastered the single point fixed dish alignment. Much of the info that is learned through the practice of setting up a fixed point dish is a prerequisite to setting up a motorized dish. If you master the fixed point dish alignment for many sats across the arc, you will be a good beginner with a motorized dish. Some of the things that you learn through dialing in the fixed point dishes is how the arc lays out from your viewpoint (your home). You will develop a second nature sense of where the satellites are located in the sky for you. How far west or east they are and how how elevated they are. Dial in all the sats available to your location with a single, fixed point dish and you develop a really good sense of direction that you can apply to your motorized dish. Trust me on this item. When you eventually get your motorized dish aligned, you will look back and understand the reasons why. You will think to yourself: "Oh, that makes sense! That's much easier".

And, as Turbo stated, you got the "BUG" now! LOL It's just so "cool" what you can accomplish. Originally, I was not much of a TV watcher, but now I realize what I can do with a few dollars and a few pieces of junk and it's awesome! Many people I know have cable TV or use the OTA channels. I have watched their stuff and I don't see that they have any great advantage regarding channel availability. Remember, when I was growing up, there were only 3 channels that were accessible. You really cannot watch more than one channel at a time anyway, so what's the point in paying $30 - $70 a month for cable? DN and DirecTV are different, more channels that you cannot watch all at once, but they cost even more. Since I am not much of a TV wacher by nature, I feel that it is a no-brainer for me to dial in to FTA TV. It's a great hobby for my winter months and I get a few channels that I like to watch and some really interesting things come along once in a while... And it is all FREE! Except for the equipment. It's just perfect for me. Biggest advantage is that you learn to do it all on your own. That's what makes it so much fun.

RADAR

I want to respond to your message in full, but I'm busy screwing with my antenna at the moment as the tropo is really good. For now I just want to say: I'd try aiming at more satellites if it wasn't so unbelievably hot/unpleasant outside this week. :)

- Trip

My motor and coax both arrived today. This afternoon, once I've eaten and my father's finished cutting the rest of the grass, I'm going to go out there and try to get it all set up. :)

- Trip

Well, the job is done. I'm pleased to report moderate success!

This position is pretty good. I can see from 91W to 125W with it. I actually moved it forward and right as far as I could without losing 125W in order to try to gain back things like 91W that I was losing by trying to get it and I almost succeeded. I was hoping to salvage 89W as well, but no dice. Didn't try anything above 125W, and I scanned eastward to see if there are any holes in the tree that signal might be able to get through, but didn't find any.

So here's what happened. You can see in the pictures that I used the existing mast to deal with it. As you might imagine, it's not the most durable thing in existence. As a result, even though my father and I went through a lot of trouble making the pipe completely level, as soon as the motor and dish were attached, it leaned slightly toward the south. As a result, there is not a single position at which I can receive both 125W and 97W. So what I decided is that since I don't currently have audio on the 125W feeds anyway, I tweaked 97W until the Al Jazeera feed just touched 70%, and so I can get the strong TPs on 123W and 12.180 on 125W just barely reaches 60% (65% needed for decode).

I may go out there at some point and try to compensate for the tilt by elevating the southern corner slightly, but right now, I'm not complaining. So much to check out! If only 103 wasn't skewed so badly... :)

- Trip

You could probably get better results if you'd sink a pole and mount the dish, lol. You can get a post at the hardware store (corner-post for chain link fence is fine) for about 12 bucks, 3 or 4 bags of quickrete and put your dish on it the next day. And, if you don't like the spot, or move later, it's not too hard to pull up the post , fill the hole back up and move it again. I've done that a few times, trying to find a spot where I could see 63W thru the trees!

Trip,

Is your house sitting lengthwise from E to W? Is the one pix of your dish taken from the North side of the house? If it is, I would like to see a few pix from the other side of the house looking south. Sorry if I am mistaken, it's not always easy to get the true perspective from a picture if you don't know the layout. But, I'd say you are doing very well thus far. I wouldn't worry about going much further west than 125W. For Ku band, only 127W remains and it doesn't provide anything of much value for FTA. You are as far west as you need to be.

I think you are getting a very positive grip on this, keep it up!

RADAR

You could probably get better results if you'd sink a pole and mount the dish, lol. You can get a post at the hardware store (corner-post for chain link fence is fine) for about 12 bucks, 3 or 4 bags of quickrete and put your dish on it the next day. And, if you don't like the spot, or move later, it's not too hard to pull up the post , fill the hole back up and move it again. I've done that a few times, trying to find a spot where I could see 63W thru the trees!

The problem is that I don't know how long I'm going to be here. When I find a job, I'm 99.99999% sure I won't be able to live at home. I'll want to take my setup with me. So I'm trying not to put in a pole that will just have to be mowed around that will only be in use for a few weeks (I hope).


Trip,

Is your house sitting lengthwise from E to W? Is the one pix of your dish taken from the North side of the house? If it is, I would like to see a few pix from the other side of the house looking south. Sorry if I am mistaken, it's not always easy to get the true perspective from a picture if you don't know the layout. But, I'd say you are doing very well thus far. I wouldn't worry about going much further west than 125W. For Ku band, only 127W remains and it doesn't provide anything of much value for FTA. You are as far west as you need to be.

I think you are getting a very positive grip on this, keep it up!

RADAR

Looking out of the front door of the house is looking almost exactly northwest. So the picture where I'm looking at the side of the house past the dish, I'm looking in the southwesterly direction. In addition, the motor itself is on the south side of the pole. This picture from my original setup shows the view from near the front porch where I had the dish originally.

http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/public/FTA-Home/.P1010004_m.jpg

That setup (aimed at 97W) stopped working when the leaves came out. I'll try to get you other pictures of it tomorrow. I had considered putting it there, but I pretty much concluded I had a better chance if I looked over the roof of the house rather than trying to put it beside the house on the southwestern side due to the proximity to the trees. Of course, I would love to hear outside opinions. :)

Other than maybe trying to bring up that southern corner, I think my next step is going to be a tuner to either replace or compliment my dying Coolsat 6000 Premium. I'm kind of thinking about a USB receiver since I would think one of those should be cheaper than buying a stand-alone box. Does anyone have any recommendations? Linux compatibility preferred, TSReader compatibility mandatory. :) I was recommended the Tevii S660 by a friend, but that receiver is nearly impossible to get in the US without importing, at which point the price exceeds that of the Openbox S10 and about matches the S9.

- Trip

If your front door that looks NW is on the right side of your picture in your previous post, I am wondering what the view looks like from the base of the big tree that is to the south or southeast of the house. If you can stand at the extreme SE corner of your house and take a pix looking due south, I would like to see what the veiw is from that vantage point.

My cabin is laid out about NW to SE, so that is how I am gathering that your house is laid out, too. For me, there is a tree to the SE of the cabin and I set my dish just a few feet to the south of that tree. It is perfect for me. I can't say that will be true for you, but my initial notion might be good. I will need to see a few more pix from you of course (I may have my bearings off).

RADAR

The big problem is that the other side of the house has the driveway on it, so I would have to bury the cable under the driveway unless it was put right against the side of the house. I found a really nice spot out there that would have been beautiful except for that and the fact that it would be yet another obstacle in grass-cutting, making my father unhappy.

I'll get you some pictures in the morning. :)

- Trip

Trip,

It isn't that difficult to run a line under an existing driveway. If the view from that position is exceptional, you might want to think about this option (or maybe running the cable overhead if it is just temporary). Let's look at your pictures first, though. If this is your folk's home, I understand that they may not want certain things put up there so I don't want to press the issue, I am just looking at all your options. I know that you understand as well as I understand your situation.

RADAR

Okay, so here are some pictures. 3 is a view of that whole side of the house. Side porch, garage, driveway, shed. 6 and 7 is standing right next to the tree next to the garage, looking over the roof of the barn. 8 is the great spot I picked out, and 9 is looking back at that spot. 10 looks back at the spot next to the tree by the garage, and if you look at the very right edge you can see the dish where it is now. (I was aimed at 97W for Al Jazeera at the time.)

12 and 14 are looking from right behind the dish at the view of the sky from its current placement.

- Trip

...... If only 103 wasn't skewed so badly...

Be sure and try scanning 103W, I don't have any trouble locking and viewing the DVB-S tps (Pentagon & MicroSpace) with a motorized 90 cm dish with zero-at-true south skewing.

The S2 tps are more challenging and require utilizing the oddball skew.

N4MJC, Nice yard lots of space I wish I had that much space.

73
KJ4EUC

Be sure and try scanning 103W, I don't have any trouble locking and viewing the DVB-S tps (Pentagon & MicroSpace) with a motorized 90 cm dish with zero-at-true south skewing.

The S2 tps are more challenging and require utilizing the oddball skew.

I did. I got it in, but I feel like performance might be better (and I wouldn't have duplicates of everything) if not for the odd skew on it.

Isn't 103W due for replacement soon anyway? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.


N4MJC, Nice yard lots of space I wish I had that much space.

73
KJ4EUC


Thanks. :)

- Trip

The replacement satellite keeps getting pushed back because of problems with another satellite that's supposed to be launched on the same rocket. The last I heard, it wasn't going to be til late next month at the earliest. Which doesn't sound bad, except that it was supposed to have been a couple of months ago.

I was going to post earlier, but some code work needed to be done for RabbitEars, so I was on that all evening. :)

So right after posting my previous message here, I gathered up my gear and went out to try to adjust the dish again today. I had planned to leave it alone for a while, but the weather was just so pleasant today that I decided I might as well. So I first lifted the front right corner a few mm, then the whole right side a few mm. Then I spent quite a while screwing with the positioning overall. I've got it now to where I can cleanly decode all the TPs I wanted (other than the DVB-S2 that this box doesn't support, of course) on 125W and still see 97W pretty well except that KTV2 breaks up somewhat, which is disappointing. A significant improvement over yesterday's setup where I had 97W but could only get one TP on 125W and that one wasn't usable.

I still want to get it right, since I do watch things on KTV2, plus I'd like to try to make 99W and 91W somewhat stronger if possible. I'm not really sure how to fix it from this point though. 125W works best when I pull back a bit on the mast while 97W works best when I push it forward a bit (where forward is south--toward the motor). I tried pulling in the perpendicular directions but that only made things worse. I thought maybe my aim at due south for the motor was off but couldn't get it improved by trying to adjust that.

And my box is continuing its downward slide, with more glitching of the menus on the screen than ever and some other questionable behavior. I'm really not sure what to do about a USB receiver, but I think I want to try to get one sooner rather than later. Any opinions are appreciated. :)

- Trip

Trip,

The 3rd and 4th pix as shown in your post (#61) - pix P101007 and P101008 looking over the small barn looks like a great view. If that were close to the southern view, I would think that would be an ideal location to set a motorized dish.

RADAR

Trip,

The 3rd and 4th pix as shown in your post (#61) - pix P101007 and P101008 looking over the small barn looks like a great view. If that were close to the southern view, I would think that would be an ideal location to set a motorized dish.

RADAR

Those are actually two somewhat different locations. It is a southern view, I'm looking south-ish in both pictures. Not sure how far east it goes, but a few years ago I borrowed a friend's DirecTV system when he deactivated it because I wanted to see how my view was, and from that general area I remember having a good lock on 119W and that was aimed basically the same direction as I'm looking toward the barn in that third picture. So I suspect my western view is okay.

I know they'd be good locations, but I'm just not sure I want to invest the effort to put something over there, which would include installing a properly installed pole (since the ground isn't flat there) and the burying of cable, since I will most likely be moving out again once I have a job somewhere.

- Trip

I think my dish shifted slightly over night as KTV2 is now in stronger and the weakest of the PBS feeds has dropped off. At this point, I'm not going to worry too much, since I have no audio anyway.

However, I just got done ordering a TeVii S660, so whenever that gets here, I'll be worrying about it a bit more. =)

- Trip

Well, I came back in from the other room to find my box not outputting video and with a "6" on the display. I cannot get it to come back on. I tried to flex the board, which has worked in the past, and I tried heating the board since heat has previously helped. Neither has worked thus far. Does anyone have any thoughts about what I could do with it?

EDIT: I opened it up and tried checking the voltages out of the supply board and all were 0. Closer looking revealed a bulging capacitor that looks as though it has been previously replaced. So I'm going to order a replacement cap and try replacing it.

EDIT2: I discovered that all the symptoms my "dying" box has had for the last few months can be explained by a capacitor going bad. So once my replacement capacitor arrives, my box may come back to life free of issues. :) Or so I hope.

- Trip

trip, good luck with the resurrection! Also, checked out the rabbitears place, very interesting site. I thought I was the only one using Aptosid ,lol.
Though I don't keep it updated enough.

trip, good luck with the resurrection! Also, checked out the rabbitears place, very interesting site. I thought I was the only one using Aptosid ,lol.
Though I don't keep it updated enough.

Haha, thanks. Glad you like the site, I put tons of work into it. And I'm not sure how much longer I'll be on Aptosid, but yes, I'm one of those very few who uses it. I'm thinking about switching to straight Debian when I get a new computer in a month or two.

I also forgot to mention that a friend of mine advised me that I should rotate my motor a few degrees to the west to see about cleaning up my aim problems, and sure enough, that helped a lot when I went outside and tried it today. Before my box died, I was seeing some 94s and 97s on some things for the first time ever, including a 91 signal from one transponder on 97W, and when I moved to 125W with my motor, had clean decodes (though not entirely stellar signal levels) on all the PBS feeds. :)

- Trip

Well, I came back in from the other room to find my box not outputting video and with a "6" on the display. I cannot get it to come back on. I tried to flex the board, which has worked in the past, and I tried heating the board since heat has previously helped. Neither has worked thus far. Does anyone have any thoughts about what I could do with it?

EDIT: I opened it up and tried checking the voltages out of the supply board and all were 0. Closer looking revealed a bulging capacitor that looks as though it has been previously replaced. So I'm going to order a replacement cap and try replacing it.

EDIT2: I discovered that all the symptoms my "dying" box has had for the last few months can be explained by a capacitor going bad. So once my replacement capacitor arrives, my box may come back to life free of issues. :) Or so I hope.

- Trip

Trip,

Hey, that would be excellent if that resolves your issue with the 6K! I am crossing my fingers for your good luck here!

I understand your dilemna about setting up a more permanent system if you plan on moving sometime in the near future. But, I am sure that you understand my urging even if it is temporary. It would be so nice to have a great LOS and play with that in experimentation as opposed to fighting for a limited view. You will have to do with what resources (and LOS) that you have at present and make the best of it.

I just polished up this weekend helping a neighbor set up DN for his RV. That was an experience. My SuperBuddy meter did not like to work with his DN LNBF. It was a Dish Pro Plus triple LNBF for 110/119/129 on a 1000.4 dish. Man! Is that LNBF a power monger! It took a lot longer than I expected because my battery kept going dead and I had forgotten that I could use the IRD to power the system.

We were down along the river and there are trees everywhere, so it takes a keen eye to locate the "hole" to aim through. We set up a "test" tripod RV mast on Saturday to check it out thoroughly. I got excellent C/N ratio readings with my SuperBuddy, but none of his channels would come in on his receiver. Turned out that the camper sales company had miswired his external power cord and damaged a lot of the electronics. They either replaced or repaired the DN receiver and it had been disconnected for too long so it needed a "rehit" from DN to reactivate all his subscription channels. We got that done and had everything coming in great.

The next step was to install a permanent mast and dish and run cables to each camper. This second, permanent dish turned out to be more difficult to align for some reason. It took me longer to figure out all the details, but after two hours or a bit more, we had that dish set up and running. That is much longer than it should have taken, I should have been done with the entire installation within 20 minutes! I felt displeased with my progress (time-wise), but he and his wife were very happy with the end results.

I only asked him to pay for the cable and the connectors at first. 250 feet of RG6 quad shield @ $0.07 per foot + 12 connectors @ $0.35 each = $21.70. But, the "porta-potty" guy came out to service our campground and I didn't have my billfold with me. So I asked him if a $35 fee would be OK for all the hardware and my time. He asked me in return if that was enough.... I told him that it was just the right price! :) That paid for the "porta-potty" service. I hope that I was fair, I only do this for a hobby and to help my friends, so I think it wasn't out of line.

I thought you might enjoy hearing this story of my latest installation. It's just for interest and curiousity and fun.

RADAR

Trip,

Hey, that would be excellent if that resolves your issue with the 6K! I am crossing my fingers for your good luck here!

Thanks, me too. I was advised by a friend of mine to use my Coolsat to drive the motor and loop out to the TeVii USB receiver, so I hope that I can fix my Coolsat.


I understand your dilemna about setting up a more permanent system if you plan on moving sometime in the near future. But, I am sure that you understand my urging even if it is temporary. It would be so nice to have a great LOS and play with that in experimentation as opposed to fighting for a limited view. You will have to do with what resources (and LOS) that you have at present and make the best of it.

Oh, I absolutely wish I had a sturdy pole. I'm sure it would have made this setup significantly easier to deal with.

My problem isn't so much with the pole as with burying my cable. If I did put in a pole, it would not be at my current location, as I'd prefer the better LOS of the spot next to the tree as you suggest. I really don't want to go through the hassle of digging up the driveway this month to have to dig it all up again next month. (I'd be particularly worried about damaging my cable trying to dig it up.)

And when I do move, I won't have the space to transport a pole surrounded by concrete, I don't think. :)


I thought you might enjoy hearing this story of my latest installation. It's just for interest and curiousity and fun.

RADAR

Absolutely. Thanks for sharing it. :)

- Trip

When I dig up a driveway or even just the lawn, I bury a poly pipe (3/4 inch was $4 for 100 feet last time I bought). then I can pull out the co-ax and LV wire at any time. If I am going to have more wires later or run the drip irrigation line too, I put in bigger poly pipe.But then, I have more property than many....

It lives!

The caps arrived this morning, did an even swap and it powered back on with less frustration than I've had since I bought it. The display on the front is brighter now, too. :)

I am just pleased as punch to have it back operating today. :D

rv1pop, where did you buy that 3/4 inch line? Just out of curiosity.

- Trip

3/4 inch irrigation polypipe from Home Depot (pro-desk). The irrigation pipe is not guaranteed to be leak free at pressure, so it was cheaper. I think it was only rated for 20# instead of 40 to 80#. But for wire protection it is OK. The 1/2 inch is easier to find and if you want only one wire or cable it works good.

edit: it was priced per 100 feet, but I got 500 feet off a 1000 foot (originally) bundle. the local irrigation supply place told me they get their pipe there and resell it. It may come from the HD warehouse .

Well, something's still wrong with my box. I turned it off today for a minute or two to make my wiring a bit more sensible and when I plugged it back in, nothing. Opened it up and 0V coming out of the supply board again. Replaced the cap I put in yesterday and it still didn't work. Then, while I was sitting there staring at it, the thing turned itself on. I was able to repeat this twice more and now have it running again but am afraid to turn it off.

My TeVii USB receiver is sitting in customs in New York. Hopefully it'll come by Monday.

- Trip

Just thought I'd post an update. Yesterday, my TeVii S660 arrived and I've been barely able to tear myself away from it. It works really well. I bought a copy of DVBViewer and already owned a copy of TSReader so I'm greatly enjoying this setup I have now. I also enjoyed an HD UVA baseball game yesterday at 38 Mbps, even though I am not a sportball fan. I couldn't turn it off because it looked so crisp and clear.

One thing that was really bothering me, though, was that my new DVB-S2 capable receiver was unable to pull in any of the DVB-S2 PBS feeds. So today I spent several hours fighting with my dish setup, and it's now significantly better than it was. All the DVB-S feeds now have a comfortable margin. Montana PBS is in solidly, LPB is now always decoding with errors, and I've seen OETA try to decode but it's not consistent. I'm concerned that my dish is too small to receive these feeds reliably. Other than AMC21, the rest of the sky is booming in now. I've got 100% signals on select TPs on 123W, 101W, and 95W, and the KTV2 TP is solid (though weak) on 97W.

If it wasn't for OETA and LPB not coming in properly, I'd say my current aim and setup is just about perfect outside of my narrow view (91W-125W only). Outside of those two TPs, all the programming I want on Ku is now available to me. :)

EDIT: I may have spoken too soon. Montana PBS is now experiencing momentary breakups every few seconds. I guess there wasn't quite enough of a margin for that one.

- Trip

Some of us have been having the momentary freeze issue with Montana PBS on the Openbox...

Mine is a signal issue. I checked it right as I went to bed last night and it had significant numbers of errors including moments of 0% signal. As of right now, the atmosphere is giveing me a completely clean LPB decode, but Montana PBS is completely gone. No OETA either.

I didn't realize atmospheric conditions would cause satellite signals to vary this much. I mean, I knew about rain fade and whatnot, but it's not raining or even cloudy.

- Trip

Scanning through this thread, I assume that you are still using the used 30" dish?

If so, this size of dish is marginal for many MPEG2 signals and definitely undersized for reliable MPEG4 signals with typically higher FEC. The higher the FEC, the more critical that the receiver is provided a signal higher quality signals.

Have you performed a string test on the reflector to determine if it may be warped? A combination of an undersized reflector and even the slightest distortion of the dish could result in reception problems.

My guess is that a 90cm dish would provide more reliable reception.....

Yes, I've not replaced my dish, though I've been trying to keep my eyes open for something larger in the area. I kept thinking my current one was 90cm, but just redid the math in my head and realized that 90cm is 36 inches, not 30 inches. Oops. I'll likely have to find my way to another hamfest to have any chance of finding one without buying new, however. (Plus a larger dish means I would need to replace my mast for sure, as the current dish almost touches the ground as it is.)

I'm unfamiliar with a string test, but it would not surprise me in the least if the thing was warped or damaged in some way. I just looked up how to do a string test and it seems simple enough, so since it's supposed to be another reasonably nice day today, I may run out and give it a try. Depends on what else I do today, of course.

One other thing I tried yesterday was swapping out the LNB that came with it with the one I bought on eBay back in February and had used at school. The one that came with it was significantly better, so I put it back. The one I bought had a 1 dB NF while the one that came with the dish claims 0.6 dB NF, but I can't imagine that's the whole story.

- Trip

One other thing I tried yesterday was swapping out the LNB that came with it with the one I bought on eBay back in February and had used at school. The one that came with it was significantly better, so I put it back. The one I bought had a 1 dB NF while the one that came with the dish claims 0.6 dB NF, but I can't imagine that's the whole story.

Please share the brand and model of the LNBF with 0.1NF that does not perform as well as the old 0.6NR.......

The over exaggeration of performance is called marketing hype! The LNBFs that we have tested that claim 0.1 or 0.2NR are actually 0.8 or higher! :eek:

It claims 1 NF, not 0.1 NF. :) It is a DMS International JSC321S. I got it for $10 on eBay before I really knew what I was doing. Knowing what I know today, I'd have gone with something else.

I also have this DirecTV LNB here that I've never used, and I have been puzzling over whether or not I can use it as a circular LNB for the Echostar satellites somehow.

- Trip

Actually that model LNBF model specifications are advertised as a 0.3dB NR. Several popular brand LNBFs were recently tested at 0.7dB+ NR during comparison testing by our manufacturers contracted lab.

Perfect examples of current advertising hype on NR and Gain. Seems that it is easier to print a spec than it is to meet a spec...... :eek:

I have a couple of those 321 lnbfs, for several months now. Seem to work very well for me, but I'm not trying to get S2 with them either.
Does just fine on a 90cm Channel master (primestar) dish. I put one on a DN 20" dish, for that little project, works great in clear weather.
Which is all we're having these days , no rain in nearly 4wks.

Totally agree that the product works fine, but they definitely are not 0.1dB NR. Just a typical off the shelf LNBF. Trip has an issue with his system that won't be addressed by a few points gain on an LNBF.

Trip, Are you only using high quality RG6 coax cable with minimal connectors or splices?

I'm using a single 150 foot run of RG-11 to a piece of cheap flat coax that I'd prefer to be rid of but that I need to get the cable through the window, and then there's about 5 feet of RG-6 connecting the flat coax to the receiver. The motor is connected to the LNB with a short run of RG-6.

Maybe someone can explain what I've been observing. I spot checked the three S2 PBS feeds throughout the day. What I found odd is that all three would not come in at once, and there seemed to be no consistent pattern. At various times I got clean decodes from LPB or Montana (but not both) and sometimes I got OETA but with breakups. I'm used to OTA DX, where you might have a "beacon" signal that comes in first and then others follow it and then they fade out in reverse order, but there was nothing like that in this case. Sometimes Montana would be clean with OETA breaking up and nothing from LPB. Other times, Montana would be in while LPB was broken up and OETA was missing. Sometimes LPB was perfect and Montana and OETA were completely absent. Sometimes all three would be in and broken up. Is there a technical reason for why this seems so inconsistent? I can't find any pattern to why they seem to come and go in a seemingly random manner.

- Trip