I received a letter stating that the 501/508 will be purged within 2 years. Although its old tech, I have to say that Ive never owned any piece of electronics that has provided as much enjoyment as this unit. I buy and sell lots of audio equipment and computers but this thing has defied the odds. My wife and kid have been working it hard for 7 years and not a single real problem. Whatever hard drive is in there gets my highest marks for reliability and performance. The silly remote has hit the floor 100 times and still works perfectly. All the buttons still function and are still fairly firm.

I just hope the newer units last even half this long. Just though Id give some positive product feedback since lately, everything I purchase seems to have a lifespan thats must shorter than expected and not supported by the manufacturer long enough (except with a $$$ insurance plan)

Art

Yeh, mine has been solid all these years myself but being a secondary receiver does not get used as much as primary one.

I loved mine too, but the VIP612 has been fantastic, does much more, and of course is HD.

So, is there any indication as to what possible receivers will be available on the upgrade and how they will handle owned vs leased equipment in the upgrade?

2 years? I was hoping that DISH would be transitioning to 8PSK sooner than that.

I sadly parted with mine when I went EA.

Look for a 625 if not going HD.

2 years? I was hoping that DISH would be transitioning to 8PSK sooner than that.

Their starting to charge a DVR fee on them will likely speed the transition. I wouldn't be surprised if they watched carefully, and when the number of non-8PSK receivers drops below a certain point, they "make an offer we can't refuse" and move on to making better use of bandwidth. This process should lend itself well to calculation.

If I'm not mistaken the 512 is the current replacement for the 501/508.Its basically a 522/625 with the second tuner de-activated.

Does the replacement of the 508 DVR incur a new 24 month commitment?

Thanks,

John

Does the replacement of the 508 DVR incur a new 24 month commitment?Not unless you replace it with something other than a 510 or 512.

Not unless you replace it with something other than a 510 or 512.

The 510 is going bye bye too. The 512 is the only standard replacement for the 501/508/510 unless you want an upgrade.

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I stand corrected on the 512 vs 625. But really, wouldn't you really rather have a Buick HD?

The 510 is going bye bye too. The 512 is the only standard replacement for the 501/508/510 unless you want an upgrade.

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I wonder if a 211 would be considered an "upgrade"? If the 508 has to go, why replace it with another SD unit?

The 512 is MPEG4 capable....the others are not

The 211 would be an upgrade as it can get HD programming

I wonder if a 211 would be considered an "upgrade"? If the 508 has to go, why replace it with another SD unit?

Yes, VIP211 would be an upgrade. It would swap for a 512 and it would not change the existing account. Purchased receiver will be purchased 512 replacement. Upgrade would be leased. If someone does not have an HD TV, (I know but they are out there) they may not want to be bothered upgrading to HD.

The 512 is MPEG4 capable....the others are not

Pretty sure the 512 is not MPEG4 capable. It doesn't have the CPU power, nor enough RAM. It's 8PSK capable though, which is what DISH is concerned about here, at the moment. Eventually, the 111/311/322/512/522/625 will be obsolete as well, if DISH wants to upgrade to MPEG4 SD on WA.

Yes, the 512 receiver is MPEG2 technology. Only VIP receivers are MPEG4.

LOL, I am sure it was just a typo on Iceberg part and even i didn't catch that!!

Then why "upgrade" a customer to a receiver that for the most part does no good in the scheme of Dish trying to upgrade Western Arc to MPEG4?

Or maybe Dish would move Western Arc to 8PSK 1st which the 512 CAN do and the 508 cannot

Then why "upgrade" a customer to a receiver that for the most part does no good in the scheme of Dish trying to upgrade Western Arc to MPEG4?

Or maybe Dish would move Western Arc to 8PSK 1st which the 512 CAN do and the 508 cannot

Yes. I'm sure there are far less legacy (QPSK) receivers out there than there are 8PSK MPEG2 receivers. I think that it would probably cost DISH a bit more money to upgrade all the MPEG2 receivers than just getting rid of the legacy receivers.

Only VIP receivers are MPEG4. You forgot the 411. ;)

You forgot the 411. ;)

Yeah haha... Nobody ever thinks about the 411, or the 111...

You forgot the 411. ;)
I stand corrected. I ALWAYS forget about the 411!!

Pretty sure the 512 is not MPEG4 capable. It doesn't have the CPU power, nor enough RAM.Neither massive CPU power nor gobs of RAM are required to decode MPEG4 (or MPEG2 for that matter). MPEG decoding is done in hardware.

Nobody said anything about massive amounts. It does in fact still require more of both. What do you think a CPU and RAM are? They are hardware. Granted, decoding doesn't require near the amount that encoding does, but MPEG4 still requires a capable CPU and a sufficient amount of RAM. I understand that when optimized for a certain task, less "power" is required, and I also understand the difference between software and hardware decoding, but that doesn't mean that some other, less capable piece of hardware will be able to do the same task.

The receivers are built with the bare minimum amount of hardware required to do whatever task they are assigned, whether it be MPEG2 or MPEG4, SD or HD. MPEG2 requires less horsepower than MPEG4, and SD requires less horsepower than HD.

It does in fact still require more of both.No CPU power is required to decode MPEG in a satellite receiver. None. Nada.

For the same reason that the 501 and 508 DVRs can't do 8PSK (handled by the IF demodulator section), they can't be "programmed" to do MPEG4; it has to be done entirely in hardware.

Subsequent DVRs have several decoders to provide up to four streams of MPEG without bringing the CPU to its knees.

Here's the datasheet for the chip used in the ViP622 that includes a block diagram: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/2/05a4tlx00yqfzf6kuk20qwfw93wy.pdf

Note the functional block just above center in the block diagram.

No CPU power is required to decode MPEG in a satellite receiver. None. Nada.

For the same reason that the 501 and 508 DVRs can't do 8PSK (handled by the IF demodulator section), they can't be "programmed" to do MPEG4; it has to be done entirely in hardware.

Subsequent DVRs have several decoders to provide up to four streams of MPEG without bringing the CPU to its knees.

Here's the datasheet for the chip used in the ViP622 that includes a block diagram: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/2/05a4tlx00yqfzf6kuk20qwfw93wy.pdf

Note the functional block just above center in the block diagram.

It's funny you should link to that block diagram, because what do you see right in the middle of it? That's right, an MIPS R5000 CPU. It's not called a central processing unit for nothing. All that the "hardware" you keep mentioning does is offload the decoding tasks from the CPU to the decoder. Everything still has to flow through the CPU in order to get to where it's coming or going whether it be RAM, or the video processing unit. Without sufficient CPU power, there would be a bottleneck between the decoder and the video processing unit. Without sufficient RAM, everything would have to hit the swap file on the HDD, which is a LOT slower, and it will again be bottlenecked. Again, the decoder "hardware" just offloads the task, and thus makes a less powerful CPU still capable of doing the task at hand, but it still has to process more information than before.

Anyway, I mainly stated "more CPU power" as the whole thing is an SoC, which means that the CPU and the decoder are on the same die. Fact remains that it still requires stronger hardware than before, and due to the nature of MPEG4, does require slightly more RAM.

We also see one HDMI output :( but 6 video DACS which are apparently able to handle HD signals via component. Why oh why Dish doesn't give us component HD output on TV2 I don't understand.

The "triple PVR" feature is what allows simultaneous recording from 2 sat and 1 OTA tuner.

....Or maybe Dish would move Western Arc to 8PSK 1st which the 512 CAN do and the 508 cannot

Yep. I believe that intention has been posted here quite a bit. 30% bandwidth usage improvement, IIRC.

I have read that the 8PSK transition would allow ~70 new channels but it was never clarified as to whether that was HD or SD channels. My assumption is SD. I'd presume they'll use the space to add HD channels, or some HD and some SD, or maybe even devote more bandwidth to the channels we already have.

When everything is 8PSK, then Dish could put both HD and SD channels on the same transponder. Might gain efficiency and cram more channels on a transponder that way, too.

Everything still has to flow through the CPU in order to get to where it's coming or going whether it be RAM, or the video processing unit.I suggest you read up on the concept of Direct Memory Access. The video data does NOT go through the CPU.

As for pointing out the CPU in the block diagram, perhaps you noticed that it isn't part of a pipeline like most the other components are.

I suggest you read up on the concept of Direct Memory Access. The video data does NOT go through the CPU.

As for pointing out the CPU in the block diagram, perhaps you noticed that it isn't part of a pipeline like most the other components are.

I know what DMA is just as I know what bus mastering is. As I have said over and over it still requires some CPU power to perform all tasks inside the chip. Bus mastering just reduces the load on the CPU. The CPU isn't part of a "pipeline" just as the RAM controller, PCI interface, Ethernet. Doesn't mean that they are not being used at all.

As I have said over and over it still requires some CPU power to perform all tasks inside the chip. Bus mastering just reduces the load on the CPU.[With each successive post, your CPU utilization has been reduced. From being the sole determiner to a major bottleneck to something little more than a supervisory role, you're getting there.

With each successive post, your CPU utilization has been reduced. From being the sole determiner to a major bottleneck to something little more than a supervisory role, you're getting there.

It hasn't been reduced in any amount. You just want to see things the way you see it no matter how things actually are. Put in an underpowered CPU, and nothing will get done, period.

Yes. I'm sure there are far less legacy (QPSK) receivers out there than there are 8PSK MPEG2 receivers. I think that it would probably cost DISH a bit more money to upgrade all the MPEG2 receivers than just getting rid of the legacy receivers.

I'm sure you're right, but if you're gonna upgrade people anyway , why not take them to mpeg4 capability. It's still that many less receivers to replace down the road when/if Dish dumps mpeg2. Only thing I can think is they don't want to give HD capability for free, or they have a ton of dusty 512s sitting in a warehouse.

I'm sure you're right, but if you're gonna upgrade people anyway , why not take them to mpeg4 capability....

I'm $ure there mu$t be $ome rea$on.

But I agree with you, it would seem to make more sense to go to MPEG-4. I'm sure somebody costed it both ways, and stretching it out won.

Any hassles with going back to an owned receiver from a leased 508? I had an owned 7100 for years until they swapped it out for the 508. They made me take the lease for 24 months but now I want to go back to having my own equipment thank you. It appears to me that the swap out would be an easy way to do that and keep a DVR at any rate. I don't need a multi-room unit (multi tuners) I have all my viewing equipment in 1 room. The 211K wold be perfect for me, once I can figure out which drive I can add to it. Is there a list here for that? Can't even see them asking for the 508 back as it is obsolete (or will be shortly) according to Dish. They never made me return the 7100.

We would ask that the smart card for the 508 be returned, but not the whole receiver. You can absolutely purchase, and install a 211 in its place. For an external hard drive, I've seen other members on the forum say that a western digital my book essential was a good one to get.

I'm not sure what dish you have installed right now, but if you want HD, it may need to be upgraded as well.

A WD Elements is also very good...