I just saw on sathint the LPB is on 87w. So I did a scan with my S10 and there it is...

71256

They are still using that STUPID 3/5 fec stuff which means my PC still will not recognize it. Grrrrr!!! :mad:
But it should be a stronger signal now being that's a new satellite, right?

It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they moved ALL the PBS channels to 87w... :)

Enjoy! :)

edit: I scanned 125 and LPB is gone from there now. I thought maybe they would be on both for awhile but they just picked up and moved everything at once. Boom! Works for me! The signal is way stronger and trees are NOT an issue with 87... :D

LPB is still on AMC 21 at this time.
What's the problem with 3/5 and your computer?
I receive LPB fine on my computer with a Prof 7500.

LPB is still on AMC 21 at this time.
What's the problem with 3/5 and your computer?
I receive LPB fine on my computer with a Prof 7500.

How strange~!

My S10 doesn't find any LPB channels on 125 at all now. :confused:
But it found them on 87w for sure, as you can see from my pictures.. :)

As for my PC not getting it, from what I have read, and my understanding of this is VERY limited, the app I use, My Theater, does not support the 3/5 thing, at all, period. The guy that wrote the app no longer updates or maintains it, at least this is what I am assuming from things I've googled, in other words, it's "abandonware".. :( So there is little to no chance that the app will ever be updated to support the 3/5 thing which is new and unique to the US. The app writer is in Russia and has no incentive to bother himself with this little used US only problem. All this is assumptions on my part from reading complaints I've googled up about the app.

You must be using a different app.

I've looked at every satellite app I could find and almost all of them have been abandoned. I think there is ONE that someone works on and maintains now but it costs a chunk of change I don't want to spend right now. I tried the demo of it and I found it extremely difficult to use and understand. But then again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the string.. PC apps and I do not get along. I really hate PC's and would rather not fool with them, they are nothing but headache and trouble.

The PC I use for the internet, is making me crazy. IF I could afford to, I would take a hammer to this thing and go buy myself a top, top, TOP of the line Apple and be done with the BS.

The PC for the satellite, I'm afraid to touch it lest it blow up in a little mushroom cloud. It mostly works so I mostly leave it alone and just watch TV... :)

hehe u think apple is more user friendly than windows? just get some linux distros strip them down to the bare essentials, add a pretty desktop (enlightenment), some pretty backgrounds & ta-da mac osx... linux is by no means easier than windows neither is mac

hehe u think apple is more user friendly than windows? just get some linux distros strip them down to the bare essentials, add a pretty desktop (enlightenment), some pretty backgrounds & ta-da mac osx... linux is by no means easier than windows neither is mac

Actually I own three Apple computers but they are really, really ancient and no good for the modern world anymore. I also have three iPhones.
I have an older mac, from like 2005, it has OSX 10.4 I think but it's too old and can't be upgraded anymore. It still works but it's slooooooow....
I use it from time to time.

So I'm no stranger to OSX or Apple products. I really like Apple stuff. I just can't keep up (financially) with the constant upgrades. :(

I just saw on sathint the LPB is on 87w. So I did a scan with my S10 and there it is...

71256

They are still using that STUPID 3/5 fec stuff which means my PC still will not recognize it. Grrrrr!!! :mad:




Having the same setup as you I have the same problem tuning those channels. But I'm starting to think it's not so much an FEC thing as the Hauppauge tuner has a problem with S2 QPSK. It dosn't tune any S2 QPSK of any FEC. But I have not confirmed that MyTheatre will tune S2 QPSK with any other tuner. And Hauppauge flat refuses assistance with this problem.

this thread mentions it
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/271211-lpbs-bad.html

post 16 says it will be going away on 125W soon

All the other PBS wont go back to 87W (they use to be there). Here is my thoughts on why they moved

This is good. Nice strong signal on 87W (with the new satellite) and also unlike the national PBS stations which are on 125W because they need to be CONUS (as in all PBS stations have to grab the feed) LPB is only for Louisiana...87W works good as its near their true south (91W is true south in Baton Rouge)...less issues with rain. After all a dish aimed that far west has more susceptible to rain fade than one aimed pretty much straight up

also LPB is still on 125W...verified oh about an hour ago

i am glad to see that pbs feeds are now on 87w. i am taking my 36" geosatpro dish to st. louis to install at my daughters home. they don't have dish or cable and will appreciate pbs feeds. i am concerned about getting 125w because of their trees. have a new s9 to go with the dish and motor. dad's christmas present is early this year. charlie

The only PBS on 87W is Louisiana (and the Florida Channel but thats not PBS per se) ;)

National feeds are staying on 125W and have a long term contract there

also LPB is still on 125W...verified oh about an hour ago

not for much longer. LPB has now posted the new sat coordinates so that should mean the 125 feed's days are numbered.

yep. Heard it would be dual-lit (125 & 87) for 2 weeks or so then 125 feed goes bye bye

yep. Heard it would be dual-lit (125 & 87) for 2 weeks or so then 125 feed goes bye bye Nov 23 is the planned shut off date for the AMC-21 feed according to new info I saw a few minutes ago. Good catch by Dee Ann! For a moment there I thought she was hallucinating about LPB on SES-2 until I checked it out myself.

in another thread it was posted too
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/271211-lpbs-bad.html#post2692375

yep. Heard it would be dual-lit (125 & 87) for 2 weeks or so then 125 feed goes bye bye

Crap.
Now I gotta decide if the dish I have at 125 stays there or moves to 87. I'm leaning towards keeping the national feeds and losing LPB.

Sent from my DROIDX using SatelliteGuys

I would try a dual band LNBF on my 6 foot panel dish, but from what I read here, those LNBFs are nothing but trouble.

I like having LPB on 87W...It allows me to solve that issue I had on 125 where if I honed in on Mon.....freeze......tana PBS (sorry had to say it :p) then LPB wouldnt show up.

How strange~!

My S10 doesn't find any LPB channels on 125 at all now. :confused:
But it found them on 87w for sure, as you can see from my pictures.. :)

As for my PC not getting it, from what I have read, and my understanding of this is VERY limited, the app I use, My Theater, does not support the 3/5 thing, at all, period. The guy that wrote the app no longer updates or maintains it, at least this is what I am assuming from things I've googled, in other words, it's "abandonware".. :( So there is little to no chance that the app will ever be updated to support the 3/5 thing which is new and unique to the US. The app writer is in Russia and has no incentive to bother himself with this little used US only problem. All this is assumptions on my part from reading complaints I've googled up about the app.

You must be using a different app.

I've looked at every satellite app I could find and almost all of them have been abandoned. I think there is ONE that someone works on and maintains now but it costs a chunk of change I don't want to spend right now. I tried the demo of it and I found it extremely difficult to use and understand. But then again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the string.. PC apps and I do not get along. I really hate PC's and would rather not fool with them, they are nothing but headache and trouble.

The PC I use for the internet, is making me crazy. IF I could afford to, I would take a hammer to this thing and go buy myself a top, top, TOP of the line Apple and be done with the BS.

The PC for the satellite, I'm afraid to touch it lest it blow up in a little mushroom cloud. It mostly works so I mostly leave it alone and just watch TV... :)
I use MyTheatre 4 Beta-11 and it tunes the LPB on 87 W just fine. The mux is DVB-S2/8PSK. I have a DVB World 2104C USB receiver and I can't get it's app to tune the mux (none of the FEC settings will lock), but MyTheatre tunes it just fine with 8PSK "auto" FEC setting. Once I tune it with MyTheatre the DVB World app will also lock and scan it. Some of this PC stuff is indeed flakey, especially on Windows 7. DVBViewer also locks and scans it just fine using "auto" FEC setting. Your PC card/receiver may not play nice with MyTheatre but MyTheatre can lock/scan that mux. You are apparently right about Saar's support of the MyTheatre application. It seems to have stopped when the Dishnet pirates got busted. About 2-3 months ago I needed a software key for MT and Saar was still giving them out. So he hasn't completely abandoned it.

DRCars

So, I scanned 87W with my Ku setup and did not get LPB. Is LPB only with DVB-S2? I am waiting for Satellite AV to start selling their new reciever.

yes LPB is DVB-S2

yes LPB is DVB-S2

Which would probably make it next to impossible to get using a dual band LNBF on PortaBUD. If they made a stacked C-Ku Band LNBF, I'd give it a shot though...

Have been trying to receive and view the LPB channel at the 87W satellite using the Fortec Lifetime Ultra as well as the Viewsat Ultra with no results. In the matter of fact none of the PBS channels come in at this satellite location.

I am hoping that the GEOSATpro microHD that I am planing to give myself for my late Christmas present, will be able to correct that problem.

Living in the New Orleans area is a good thing because I am able to view one of the LPB channel via OTA, but it would be nice to see most of the others FTA PBS channels. That is what my two gradkids watch most of the time.

It feels like Christmas is dragging along this year. Ha, Ha, Ha.


avenger.

Have been trying to receive and view the LPB channel at the 87W satellite using the Fortec Lifetime Ultra as well as the Viewsat Ultra with no results. In the matter of fact none of the PBS channels come in at this satellite location.

LPB is DVB-S2 and those 2 receivers only receive DVB ;)

Once we have the new DVB-S2 receiver, would we need to worry about the AC 3 issue of sound. Would the new reciever decode the sound to the Tv? Just asking! Thanks:).

Last night as I was setting up my dad's replacement S9 I did a blind scan of all ku satellites and it found LPBS on 125 and 87 but I ignored the ones on 125 and only added the ones on 87 to his favorites as that's it's final destination anyway. Dad doesn't care anyway, he just uses the favorites button to get to the channels he prefers.

When it was on 125 it was a little touchy on the reception. Now that it's on 87, it's very strong and stable. This is a WIN for everyone. Well, everyone in the middle of the US with a clear shot at 87, I suppose.. :o

LPB is DVB-S2 and those 2 receivers only receive DVB ;)

That was my point, those two receivers are almost obsolete. On with the new technology.

Once we have the new DVB-S2 receiver, would we need to worry about the AC 3 issue of sound. Would the new reciever decode the sound to the Tv? Just asking! Thanks:).

nope it will decode just fine to the TV...no extra equipment needed

That was my point, those two receivers are almost obsolete.
not really. There isnt much S2 on KU other than PBS. ONce in a while some sports feeds but most are still DVB. Use the Coolsat 5000 all day Saturdays scanning for football feeds

Thanks Iceberg, Can't wait till Satellite AV gets their new box!That should take care of the sound issue:). Thanks again!

Looks like LPBS has left 125 early, no signal on the transponder all day.

2 weeks ago it was posted that they would leave 125W in 2 weeks
LPB site already shows the new parameters ;)

Looks like LPBS has left 125 early, no signal on the transponder all day.Correct. Everything is moved that needs to be moved. ;)

not really. There isnt much S2 on KU other than PBS. ONce in a while some sports feeds but most are still DVB. Use the Coolsat 5000 all day Saturdays scanning for football feeds

Thanks Iceberg,

I guess that I was a little bit too harsh on them. Considering that those are the only two receivers that I own, they have given me some good useage. Even though they are missing quite a few things, such as AC3 for one and and other things that are now more needed and desireable.

My question is, why did LPB move anyway? I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too. I never particularly like the move to DVB-S2 for any signal, and most signals that have transitioned over would work fine on DVB-S, like LPB, but I guess it's done to future proof themselves.

Montana PBS is another gem lost to DVB-S2. From what I could remember, they wanted to switch to DVB-S2 when they start to go all HD. I don't know if this is true or not. Even if they go all HD, DVB-S will be plenty.

If they lease a transponder, don't they have to lease all bandwidth of a transponder, or do they have the option to lease only part of it for a cheaper price? And whether you have a 25mbit transport stream modulated DVB-S or S2, it still uses the same amount of bandwidth, no?

From what I gather, DVB-S2 is best for larger bandwidths or very high bitrate streams, as most of those streams contain mpeg4 video, does this mean PBS will eventually transition to mpeg4 or am I just speculating? I think I saw an H.264 SCPC PBS feed on The List on 125W.

Since I use commercial equipment and have a mini headend set up on my clothes closet, DVB-S2 and mpeg4 trouble me greatly, as good commercial equipment is super expensive and hard to find second hand. You can find good commercial DVB-S receivers second hand, namely the Scientific Atlanta D9850, which work beautifully, even with non-powervu unencrypted signals. I have one tuned to the PBS HD feed on 12140MHz on 125W and the other tuned to DW-TV on 3740MHz on 103W, both run rock solid stable, never freeze up or lock up, and always output the transport stream no matter what. I have both connected to QAM modulators. These receivers can be picked up pretty cheap on eBay, but the whole story changes for S2 and mpeg4 stuff.

I hope the PBS HD feeds on 12140MHz stay for a very long, long time in mpeg2 and DVB-S.

My question is, why did LPB move anyway?Cost.

I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too.No. DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 has nearly equivalent C/N requirements to DVB-S QPSK 3/4, but with 42% more payload capacity.

If they lease a transponder, don't they have to lease all bandwidth of a transponder, or do they have the option to lease only part of it for a cheaper price? And whether you have a 25mbit transport stream modulated DVB-S or S2, it still uses the same amount of bandwidth, no?You pay for occupied bandwidth in MHz. How you use that bandwidth (modulation/constellation/FEC) is up to you and will of course affect throughput.

From what I gather, DVB-S2 is best for larger bandwidths or very high bitrate streams, as most of those streams contain mpeg4 video, does this mean PBS will eventually transition to mpeg4 or am I just speculating?DVB-S2 is good for anyone who wants to use less bandwidth (MHz). That translates into reduced recurring costs. LPB previously occupied 20 MHz but currently uses 15 MHz. I can tell you the amount saved dwarfs the incremental capital that was needed to move to DVB-S2 three years ago.

PBS will move to H.264. Encoder evaluation is in progress. Note that LPB and PBS each make decisions that are in their own best interest. Each has different technical and operation requirements. PBS doing H.264 or DVB-S2 doesn't mean LPB or any other member station must follow.


Since I use commercial equipment and have a mini headend set up on my clothes closet, DVB-S2 and mpeg4 trouble me greatly, as good commercial equipment is super expensive and hard to find second hand.IRDs with SDI and HDMI output can be had for under $1500 that do S2 and H.264.


I hope the PBS HD feeds on 12140MHz stay for a very long, long time in mpeg2 and DVB-S.I'd guess you have 18 months left, but I'm speculating.

Cost.
No. DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 has nearly equivalent C/N requirements to DVB-S QPSK 3/4, but with 42% more payload capacity.
You pay for occupied bandwidth in MHz. How you use that bandwidth (modulation/constellation/FEC) is up to you and will of course affect throughput.DVB-S2 is good for anyone who wants to use less bandwidth (MHz). That translates into reduced recurring costs. LPB previously occupied 20 MHz but currently uses 15 MHz. I can tell you the amount saved dwarfs the incremental capital that was needed to move to DVB-S2 three years ago.


This explains quite a lot. I still don't understand how it reduces cost. If I'm an uplink and I only use 15MHz and the rest is not being used, how does the satellite operator pass along the savings?



PBS will move to H.264. Encoder evaluation is in progress. Note that LPB and PBS each make decisions that are in their own best interest. Each has different technical and operation requirements. PBS doing H.264 or DVB-S2 doesn't mean LPB or any other member station must follow.


Each member station will need to upgrade equipment. I think they use IRDs that accept different input cards and such, but then they'd need the expensive mpeg4 to mpeg2 transcoding equipment.




IRDs with SDI and HDMI output can be had for under $1500 that do S2 and H.264.


Still very pricey compared to DVB-S mpeg2 equipment. End point devices like tuners don't decode mpeg4 yet, like TiVo.



I'd guess you have 18 months left, but I'm speculating.
[/QUOTE]

Sucks, as I really enjoy these feeds very much. I won't be able to get an IRD with ASI output for under $350.

My question is, why did LPB move anyway? I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too. I never particularly like the move to DVB-S2 for any signal, and most signals that have transitioned over would work fine on DVB-S, like LPB, but I guess it's done to future proof themselves.

I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread on why they moved

This is good. Nice strong signal on 87W (with the new satellite) and also unlike the national PBS stations which are on 125W because they need to be CONUS (as in all PBS stations have to grab the feed) LPB is only for Louisiana...87W works good as its near their true south (91W is true south in Baton Rouge)...less issues with rain. After all a dish aimed that far west has more susceptible to rain fade than one aimed pretty much straight up

I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread on why they moved

This is good. Nice strong signal on 87W (with the new satellite) and also unlike the national PBS stations which are on 125W because they need to be CONUS (as in all PBS stations have to grab the feed) LPB is only for Louisiana...87W works good as its near their true south (91W is true south in Baton Rouge)...less issues with rain. After all a dish aimed that far west has more susceptible to rain fade than one aimed pretty much straight up

It makes a lot on sense. When my 90cm Prodelin was in it's old location I couldn't even dream of getting the LPB feed, now there might be hope in it's new location, but I want it at 125W for the PBS HD feeds. If they were concerned about rain fade, why didn't they stay with C Band distribution? Is Ku band cheaper?

I didnt think they were C-Band ever...

I get the new location great on a 76cm dish in Minnesota. No need to move the dish to find it. Dish is peaked on 87W and comes in at 73 on the Manhattan (and with the sports feeds on 87W my motor doesnt get a workout going over to 125) ;)

This explains quite a lot. I still don't understand how it reduces cost. If I'm an uplink and I only use 15MHz and the rest is not being used, how does the satellite operator pass along the savings?The satellite operator doesn't "pass" savings, because there isn't savings. It's a similar business model to an ISP. You have the cable/DSL package that's $50/month for 50 Mbps. You spend money to get a new computer that can play AVC video files. You can now pirate movies that are half the size but look just as good. You decide to save $25/month and drop down to the tier that's only 20 Mbps. There's no savings to the provider, but you cut your monthly bill in half and all you had to spend was the cost of a new computer. Oh, and the old computer was out of warranty and about to die anyway so you had to get something new.

It's up to the ISP (or satellite provider) to sell capacity to maximize their profits. Either charge less and have more customers or have fewer customers paying more. The difference with a satellite operator is that they can't oversubscribe bandwidth like an ISP, and they don't have to pay for peering connections to other Internet providers.


Each member station will need to upgrade equipment. I think they use IRDs that accept different input cards and such, but then they'd need the expensive mpeg4 to mpeg2 transcoding equipment.PBS provides IRDs. The current Sencore IRDs are modular, but they are also end of life. I believe the plan is in fact to replace them all.


Still very pricey compared to DVB-S mpeg2 equipment. End point devices like tuners don't decode mpeg4 yet, like TiVo.MPEG-4 AVC and DVB-S2 solve separate problems. You can do one without the other. Also consumer devices are an entirely different issue. What a provider uses for contribution has no effect on what end users receive. ATSC is still MPEG-2 (theoretically you could do AVC, but we'll ignore that). I don't know what the rules for cable are, but AFAIK only IPTV providers are using AVC.

It makes a lot on sense. When my 90cm Prodelin was in it's old location I couldn't even dream of getting the LPB feed, now there might be hope in it's new location, but I want it at 125W for the PBS HD feeds. If they were concerned about rain fade, why didn't they stay with C Band distribution? Is Ku band cheaper?LPB has never been C band. There are historical reasons why that is the case (going back 20 years). To abandon Ku would easily require several hundred thousand dollars. It's not worth it, even though I believe C band is generally cheaper.

the other advantage if they went C-Band (no dont) is rain fade elimination (or very minimal)

LPB on 87w is rockin here in SE Texas. I'm 50 miles west of Lake Charles, LA. so this is a win-win for people in the vicinity of Louisiana.
I'm getting it great on my S10 and my dad is getting it great on his S9 a few miles from here.

Previously, here in this area, the LPB channels on 125w were weak and touchy and didn't always come in all that great.
It was pretty common to see those fonky blocks all over the picture. "Lego-vision" would be a good way to describe it.
It's great now.

I am glad they moved. I think it was a good deal for everyone, at least the intended audience anyway.. :)

yep looks like its working way better for folks on 87W than 125W
(unless you have a fixed dish at 125)

The satellite operator doesn't "pass" savings, because there isn't savings. It's a similar business model to an ISP. You have the cable/DSL package that's $50/month for 50 Mbps. You spend money to get a new computer that can play AVC video files. You can now pirate movies that are half the size but look just as good. You decide to save $25/month and drop down to the tier that's only 20 Mbps. There's no savings to the provider, but you cut your monthly bill in half and all you had to spend was the cost of a new computer. Oh, and the old computer was out of warranty and about to die anyway so you had to get something new.

It's up to the ISP (or satellite provider) to sell capacity to maximize their profits. Either charge less and have more customers or have fewer customers paying more. The difference with a satellite operator is that they can't oversubscribe bandwidth like an ISP, and they don't have to pay for peering connections to other Internet providers.


I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?



PBS provides IRDs. The current Sencore IRDs are modular, but they are also end of life. I believe the plan is in fact to replace them all.


I'm assuming the Sencore IRDs were in use before the implementation of the NGIS then? Because if they were implemented when the NGIS system was first implemented, I'd say their lifespan is really short.



MPEG-4 AVC and DVB-S2 solve separate problems. You can do one without the other. Also consumer devices are an entirely different issue. What a provider uses for contribution has no effect on what end users receive. ATSC is still MPEG-2 (theoretically you could do AVC, but we'll ignore that). I don't know what the rules for cable are, but AFAIK only IPTV providers are using AVC.

Both create problems for smaller cable operators and "hobbyist" cable operators like me. DVB-S2 modulation means the IRD has to be upgraded, which you won't find one for less than $800, even with just ASI output. MPEG-4 isn't an issue if I were to multicast the transport stream via IP, but it's an issue for endpoint consumer devices, like a ATSC/QAM tuner in a TV or a TiVo, which probably won't even recognize an MPEG-4 transport stream, let alone decode the video and audio. This means I'll need to get equipment for transcoding, which won't be less than $1500.

Motorola makes IRDs for broadcasters who went to DCII DVB-S2 MPEG-4 transmission which not only output a MPEG-4 TS via ASI, but transcode that to MPEG-2 and output that to another ASI output, as well as down convert to SD for analog video output. So these great IRDs are perfect for MPEG-2 and analog headends, but there is no solution like that for DVB-S2 MPEG-4 stuff that is unencrypted.

What does a hobbyist cable system do? Who does it serve?

I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?

more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)

more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)

I'm guessing this means multiple SCPC feeds per transponder?


What does a hobbyist cable system do? Who does it serve?

It allows me to distrubite all the channels I'm interested in to each TV in my house without the need for a separate satellite receiver. I can watch PBS HD or DW-TV or whatever in the kitchen, living room, and bedroom. The QAM modulators were the most expensive part, but I can pipe the transport stream from any transponder I want to any TV or QAM tuner. Obviously, the encrypted channels won't display, but the rest work perfectly. It's expensive, overbearing, not nessisary, but I love playing with the commercial satellite receivers and QAM modulators, and to me, it's well worth the money. :)

Cool.

I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?Multiple carriers can go on the same transponder. They can be uplinked on different dishes or combined prior. Multiple carriers raise the noise floor, but this is all considered when determining your link budget. Whether each carrier(s) is an SCPC or MCPC is a separate issue from how many there are on a transponder.

An analog carrier uses either the full 36 MHz transponder, or can be limited to only half (upper or lower slot). Of course a full analog transponder looks better (relative to half).


I'm assuming the Sencore IRDs were in use before the implementation of the NGIS then? Because if they were implemented when the NGIS system was first implemented, I'd say their lifespan is really short.NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).


MPEG-4 isn't an issue if I were to multicast the transport stream via IP, but it's an issue for endpoint consumer devices, like a ATSC/QAM tuner in a TV or a TiVo, which probably won't even recognize an MPEG-4 transport stream, let alone decode the video and audio. This means I'll need to get equipment for transcoding, which won't be less than $1500.

<nitpick>There's no such thing as an MPEG-4 transport stream. MPEG-4 AVC (aka H.264, aka MPEG-4 Part 10) video is still carried within an MPEG-2 transport stream.</nitpick>


more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)A Ku FSS transponder is (always?) 36 MHz wide. C band as well. I think Ka and Ku DBS use different sizes.

Multiple carriers can go on the same transponder. They can be uplinked on different dishes or combined prior. Multiple carriers raise the noise floor, but this is all considered when determining your link budget. Whether each carrier(s) is an SCPC or MCPC is a separate issue from how many there are on a transponder.

An analog carrier uses either the full 36 MHz transponder, or can be limited to only half (upper or lower slot). Of course a full analog transponder looks better (relative to half).


That explains it quite a bit.



NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).


I think they moved to DVB a little bit before they had a nationwide HD feed, which I think had a virtual channel of 80 or something.



<nitpick>There's no such thing as an MPEG-4 transport stream. MPEG-4 AVC (aka H.264, aka MPEG-4 Part 10) video is still carried within an MPEG-2 transport stream.</nitpick>


Very true.

NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).The 1st one I saw & helped the CE at school install was something like 7 or 8 yrs ago.

is LPB showing lower signal tonight?

Use to have it between 65-73 and now its hovering in the 45-50 range here in MN. (on the 87W sat)

is LPB showing lower signal tonight?

Use to have it between 65-73 and now its hovering in the 45-50 range here in MN. (on the 87W sat)

Lower for me, as well. Hovering in the 59-63 range on the AZBox and on the 75e. Usually in the 80s (when I had it on the 60e before I switched it to the 75e I had it in the 59-63 range, hate to imagine what it would be if I still had it there!)

87 - 89 here on a Coolsat 8000 and 84e.

Openbox S10

LPB - SI=88%, SQ=70% but fluctuating.

back to a solid 70-71 now

must have just been a glitch :)

back to a solid 70-71 now

must have just been a glitch :)

Hopefully, it doesn't mean that the night-time variations that were experienced on 125 are now going to be on 87! Mine is up to 75 again (though I thought I got it higher than that before, but could be wrong, don't have anything written down about it).

I have the Openbox S10, a 76 cm dish, and the Invacom SNH-031 LNB, but I cannot pick up the LPB channel on 87W. I can't figure out what my problem is. I live in Ohio, and I doubt the signal is that low. It's not showing any signal when I do a manual scan of that transponder. I already get the Florida Channel, which is DVB-S2, but I don't get LPB. I would really like to get this. Any suggestions at what may be my problem?

I use a 76cm dish and it works fine here in MN..using a Manhattan receiver and it scans in just fine

I can't figure out what the problem could be. I know the footprint for 87W is good in my area, and I have all the necessary equipment. It's got to be a setting that's not right. I'll try to figure it out when I get home today. I can get all the PBS DVB-S2 channels at 125W just fine.

Ok, I'm getting a good signal on the LPB channels now. The dish was about a half degree too far west. I was getting everything on 87W, except the LPB channels until I slightly moved the dish.

Good for you, it is positively booming here on my 1 meter dish. I think with their signal I'll have a self-defrosting dish this winter, haha.

LPB for a few days had the "nightime dropoff" but tonight its at 72 on the Manhattan

It's odd that I didn't see the dropoff that night you reported this, just one of the mysteries I guess. Maybe you had a raccoon climbing around on your porch blocking the dish's view of sky?

I have it here too (the night time drop off) It will be 70 qual during the day but at night 28 qual but it still comes in on the Openbox fine even at that level for me. Most nights it only drops to 48. I wonder if it happens for the more northern folks. Im at the top of upper michigan's thumb and Ice is pretty far north in MN too. Dunno. I have a 6ft dish with a dmx741. All other S2 ku come in fine at 125w and elsewhere. C-band S2 stuff comes in fine too no drop off and I now get BOTH RTV feeds on SES-2 since its just a signal fire hose but yeah the LPB drop off is weird for me too. Must be atmospherics as those change at night and are aggravated by a bunch of different variables. Its not close to as bad as it was on 125W. I could rarely get LPB on 125W. OKLA pbs always comes in at 75 qual, montana has stabilized lately too at 65 to 72 qual but no more freeze lately. National pbs feeds come in booming at 76 qual. PBS world etc.. booming too.



It's odd that I didn't see the dropoff that night you reported this, just one of the mysteries I guess. Maybe you had a raccoon climbing around on your porch blocking the dish's view of sky?

I have been looking for days and can never receive LPB at 87W Ku anymore. I have tweaked my dish and everything is coming in better than ever from SES 2. I get zero signal right now on the LPB tp. Is LPB still there?

I have been looking for days and can never receive LPB at 87W Ku anymore. I have tweaked my dish and everything is coming in better than ever from SES 2. I get zero signal right now on the LPB tp. Is LPB still there?


Yep. All the LPB channels are coming in just fine on my S10 at 87w ku, I just now checked it and went through all the channels. All there....

Thanks...it appears my fixed dish on 125W project is back on. My dilemma is whether to fix it on 103W or 125W. I think PBS wins over NBC.

I know LPB had some power issues a week or so ago (signal would be really low here in Minnesota) but its back to normal
73 on the Manhattan

I have been looking for days and can never receive LPB at 87W Ku anymore. I have tweaked my dish and everything is coming in better than ever from SES 2. I get zero signal right now on the LPB tp. Is LPB still there?

I know when I first set up my dish, I was getting everything except LPB. I was able to fix the problem, I changed my longitude on the USALS setting from 81.6W (which is my correct longitude) to 82.1. That seemed to get me every channel including LPB. Before I did that, I was receiving everything else at 87W, but for some odd reason, I couldn't get LPB.

...I changed my longitude on the USALS setting from 81.6W (which is my correct longitude) to 82.1. That seemed to get me every channel including LPB...
So you basically moved yourself 1/2 degree to the west. I guess this is a way of telling the dish to move 1/2 degree east. I tried this and moved myself first west (0.5 to 1 to 1.5 degrees), then I moved myself to the east in the same way. I could see the signal on the other tps changing (going down) when I did this. Zero LPB signal. Weather today is excellent, clear sky, all other signals on all satellites which vary with weather are stronger than usual. I did raise the dish elevation a very slight amount the other day to peak 15W. Hard to believe that minor change would kill a signal at 87W though.

when i had the geopro antenna on the roof with usals and i had a strong wind from the west it would slightly move the antenna a half a degree. would fix it by moving my location until i got up to readjust the antenna. charlie

For what it's worth, early this morning LPB was missing for a few minutes -- my box showed no signal on that transponder. Then suddenly it came back again, booming.

Any chance the actual beam footprint can be changed, for example, to focus more on its intended audience which would leave me out?

highly unlikely the footprint changed. But I know when LPB was at 125W it seemed to have (for me at least) the local AM radio reception issue

really strong at day
sucky at night

...I changed my longitude on the USALS setting from 81.6W (which is my correct longitude) to 82.1. That seemed to get me every channel including LPB...
I am now successfully using this trick of slightly editing my USALS lat/long coordinates to improve signal reception for some satellites. The S9 (with current firmware, at least) is not easy to use to manually swing the dish to search for a signal in diseqc mode. It is easier to leave the USALS in control and modify my position. This has enabled me to get Pentagon HD, 103W and 15W much better using the motor, though I still don't see a flicker from LPB.

I've had my USALS set a half degree off for months now, and it's worked fine for me. It's better than getting on the roof in the winter. I get all the channels. I don't think my pole is perfectly vertical, but oh well, it's good enough.

Once you've gotten where you need to go with USALS for any sat, can't you just fine tune and save/switch it to Diseq controlled. You can have some sats USALS and some diseq if you want. I just find that once the sat is locked in, a lot easier to adjust with a bump here or a bump there using diseq than to fuss around with USALS settings. And as the motor ages might just get more slop in the gearing or the mast becomes less perfect so USALS becomes less accurate. I know with my mast being as vertical as I can get it but not perfect (especially with temperature fluctuations) and my due south reference dubious, USALS does not give consistent or repeatable results across the entire arc.

Once you've gotten where you need to go with USALS for any sat, can't you just fine tune and save/switch it to Diseq controlled.
That's exactly what I used to do with my Coolsat 7000. Find a sat initially with USALS, then fine tune with DiseqC mode and save. Ultimately, all sats would be DiseqC. A manual bump of the dish can sometimes make a difference between having some breakup of signal and perfect viewing. I find even evening viewing demands a touch up of the dish compared with daytime viewing (temperature changes?). But...the S9 is not friendly like this. I do this for some satellites, mostly those with strong signals near the centre of the arc. Probably due to the tiny movement required for satellites closer to the edges of the arc, manually finding sats is almost impossible, and I can't find some of them manually. As soon as the USALS to DiseqC mode is changed, the signal is gone (probably dish shifts slightly) and I can't find it again until I return to USALS. This could be a flaw in the S9 firmware currently being used since I never had this problem with the Coolsat. I even used the Coolsat to motor and the S9 to view. But that became too cumbersome, and the Coolsat can't see DVB-S2 signals so finding sats required two monitors: one to see the Coolsat screen and one to see the S9 screen.

Looking forward to the Geosatpro to resolve this. I'm waiting for it...

Make sure the DiseqC position saved is 0 before you switch from USALS to DiseqC otherwise the motor will automatically start moving to the saved position without you realizing what is going on.

Zeroing first is a good point. Although I use the Goto X command to go to a saved position of an adjacent satellite so I have a reference from which to start motoring. Doing this, it should only be a short motor of 2 degrees or so to get to the desired satellite. Once the weather warms I'll take all the gear outside and stand beside the dish so I can see exactly what's happening. That may clear up the issue. Now I'm in the dark a little since I can only see from the house generally what the dish does when I issue commands.

Changing the position to 0 and then assigning a new unsaved position number is good advice as I had to find it out the hard way when I'd get a sat lined up and try to bump it only to have the dish move to the prior saved spot. The s9 and S10 behave identically so diseq works very well as the day to day motor control.

...The s9 and S10 behave identically so diseq works very well as the day to day motor control.
The behaviour of any receiver is directly related to the version of firmware being used. What version firmware are you referring to when you say the above? I am using 2011Aug30 S9 firmware since I've found this to be the best firmware including improving the timer performance so the PVR is useable (with perhaps the reported glitch for daily recordings) and adding multiple column layout for scanned stations. The motor control of this version doesn't compare favorably with my Coolsat 7000 which operates exactly as one would expect it should.

...I just find that once the sat is locked in, a lot easier to adjust with a bump here or a bump there using diseq than to fuss around with USALS settings...
I use an S9 with a universal LNB set for 10600, 22kHz ON so I only blind scan the high band. Just learned this from another forum: "With S9/S10, when using DiseqC 1.2 motor controls and manually “bumping” the motor position, the signal meter cuts out on vertical, making it difficult to impossible to peak on vertical transponders."

I just tested this. And this is the cure to the problem I've experienced for a long time but never knew why. Problem of bumping dish is solved, as long as there is an active horizontal tp that I can tune to. However, LPB is horizontal so this is not a factor for that satellite. I'm thinking of getting a better LNB such as Spitfire or Avenger. My current Multi-star so-called "0.1 dB" LNB is probably mundane.

Is everybody aware of the change in LPB symbol rate? I understand it has changed to 11150 just this week. Perhaps updating this parameter could help in reception. A little of their signal did squeak through here last night so I know they are still there. Interested in hearing from anybody in Nova Scotia to compare in real time reception results of LPB.

Hi, I just popped in to see why I wasn't getting the LPB channels. Thanks for the
update Cyberham, on the SR numbers.

They're coming in now at about 51% on my AZ Prem-HD. Oh yeah, sorry, but I'm
not down east, (but Mom is from the Tatamagouche area though, hehe), I'm in
Wawa Ont. (north of the Sault, 250Km)

Cloud cover is rather thick today, the signal may strengthen when it clears.

Cheers.

Oops, forgot to mention, I had to turn Pilot "On" for that TP, to get any Q.

But that might just be one of the quirks that my AZ has developed.

LPB2 and LPB3 are so clear tonight. I haven't received like this for months. No LPBHD video at all, but audio is perfect. Wonder if others are seeing any differences tonight?

Added: Re-scanned and now all 3 LPB stations clear with perfect video including LPBHD.