How Dish's 1080p is going to work...

[Smith, P.]

We will get the answers when Dish will start spooling the content - all the kind of questions are rhetorical.

[waltinvt]

Yes, but I can also change wikipedia to say that componate cables are used to make a chicken dance in a French circus.

It doesn't mean that its right or not.. But because wikipedia says it is it must be true. While I'm not disputing the claim, I am disputing wikipedia because the information can easily be changed by other people to support invalid claims.

It's part of the new "truth is whatever you want it to be movement".

[waltinvt]

<snip>....Remember when Dish put out a technical bulletin to installers telling them to always use HDMI/DVI when possible because someday component connections would be stripped down to 480p ? That was all HDCP-related........

And HDCP is all about how to force more $$$$ out of consumers. Right from the same quality HDMI cables that sell for $49.95 at B/B or $39.95 at Wal-Mart being available for only $11.95 at Monoprice to eventually having to pay for each and every viewing of HD program and probably archiving fees to keep them on external HDDs. Trust me, you'll eventually even loose some of the DVR features we've come to enjoy with HD programming.

This didn't happen overnight but people haven't really cared about it much because they've been so distracted by all the new HD available, cheaper hardware and recently the ability to create personal HD libraries on ext HDDs.

That's already starting to change as some HD sources already disallow archiving and it's only a matter of time before others follow suit. Once the ability to (legally) create your own library is gone, you can trust that the price of purchased media will go up (or at least no longer keep coming down). Don't forget, there's no longer an alternate source to compete.

We could be heading right back to the days when new release VHS movies sold for over $100 the first year they were out. Oh eventually, maybe when they're broadcast on network channels with commercials your "fair use" rights will allow you to make a 480i copy for your own use.

[Hall]

...I am disputing wikipedia because the information can easily be changed by other people to support invalid claims.

Go ahead and change it then... In many cases, the people who author those entries will be set up to receive notifications if someone changes the information. Admittedly, that still doesn't mean the information is accurate.

Fact is, component cabling is technically capable of carrying 1080p signals.

[8bitbytes]

Bigger questions are: 1) will dish display 1080/24p at full 1080 x 1920 resolution? (unlikely since Dish carries no 1080i at full 1080 x 1920 resolution); and 2) what will be the maximum bit rate? I've seen peak rates on Blu-ray of 45Mbps, and Blu-ray also has the ability to use VC-1 (a more efficient video codec than MPEG-4), so the claim by Dish that their 1080p service will be of Blu-ray quality is total nonsense.

This has already been said by Dish to be a download and not streaming content so 1920x1080 1080p/24 is fully possible and Many Bluray disks are in mpeg2 and mpeg4 format even though vc-1 is a possible format as well.

Declaring something as nonsense before you even see it is in fact nonsense.

[BuddyBoy]

The Dish 1080/24p announcement is about 95% marketing hype.

Correct.

Only those with HDTVs that support true 24fps will be able to take advantage of it. These TVs display at some multiple of 24Hz (23.976Hz to be technically correct) such as 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, or even 120Hz in some cases. The benefit is that the display rate matches the native 24fps rate of cinema, eliminating the uneven cadence due to reverse 3:2 pull down, reducing panning judder.

Actually you've got that backwards. The crappier the TV, the more likely 1080p from the receiver will benefit it. Consider the following types of displays:

1) 1080p60 with broken reverse 3-2 pulldown
2) 1080p60 with working reverse 3-2 pulldown
3) 1080p120 (or other multiple of 24) with broken reverse 3-2 pulldown
4) 1080p120 (or other multiple of 24) with working reverse 3-2 pulldown

I don't believe any displays fall into category #3. Category 4 can extract 24fps 1080p from 1060i broadcasts and display them with a 5:5 cadence, resulting in judder-free motion (look at scrolling movie credits). Category 3 can extract 24fps 1080p from 1060i broadcasts and display them with a 3:2 cadence, which may result in objectionable judder to some. Category 1 are the ones who really benefit from this announcement - displays that could not properly deinterlace 1080p24 contained inside of 1080i60 broadcasts. Now they can, or rather, don't have to. Categories 2 and 4 don't benefit at all - they could already extract 1080p24 from the 1080i60 signal without any upgrade from Dish.

[BuddyBoy]

Fact is, component cabling is technically capable of carrying 1080p signals.

This electrical engineer/computer engineer/computer scientist with multiple degrees and 20+ years experience in developing hardware and software for still and motion imaging applications agrees.

There are technical limits and implementation limits. There is no technical limitation that prevents 1080p from being carried on component cables with sufficient quality. Back in the "old days" we used to send much higher bandwidth video signals over much crappier cabling (for short distances).

[mdntblu]

All I can say is WOW. I can understand 0.1% of all of this technical talk. I wish I understood more and by reading this I might actually understand more.

[rglore]

3) 1080p120 (or other multiple of 24) with broken reverse 3-2 pulldown

I don't believe any displays fall into category #3.

I think my Samsung DLPs (HLTxx76S) fall into this category unless the recent firmware update fixed it. They can however accept a 1080p24 signal just fine.

[TalonDancer]

This electrical engineer/computer engineer/computer scientist with multiple degrees and 20+ years experience in developing hardware and software for still and motion imaging applications agrees.....

How can you expect the folks in this forum to take your post seriously, if it is based on education and experience and you don't even obliquely reference the use of Google and/or Wikipedia?

Talon Dancer