Tivo hearing today?

**ILv2Xlr8** · 10-06-2008 07:45 PM

Only in America do we get such ridiculous patents. Same with Verison suing Vonage. They didn't invent the technology, and some how got a patent in the USA for a specific use of it. These ridiculous patent applications were rejected overseas.

Perhaps I should get in on the action... lets see... there is a probably a patent for different variants of table salt, but I think I'll patent its use on dinner tables.

**jacmyoung** · 10-06-2008 09:28 PM

Whether you agree with the current patent system or not is irrelevant to this decision. I personally believe software patents should be limited to only half of the valid time compared to the conventional patents simply because how fast the new technologies may change.

But under the current system, E* did infringe on the TiVo's patent, and TiVo righfully should receive the payment.

And likewise, under the current system E* is allowed to design around the TiVo's patent. As long as the E* DVRs no longer infringe on the TiVo's patent anymore, they can continue be used as before. This is the law.

It is wrong for E* fans to argue the system was flawed and E* was a victim of the bad patent law, and it is also wrong for the TiVo's fans to insist the current system does not allow E* to work around the patent, both arguments are wrong.

I don't see any other way but for E* to wait for the lower court ruling on the contempt issue. Based on all the case law, E* is not in contempt because of the design around.

Put it this way, if TiVo could be so easily getting a patent on a DVR technology similar to many companies had done before them, then it should be just as easy for E* to come up with a different DVR technology that can do the same things yet not infringing on TiVo's patent.

It was stupid for E* to ignore TiVo's patent and used a similar DVR technology before, when they could have worked on their own DVR technology, it took a judgment of $74 million two years ago for E* to realize they needed to start to make their own.

Next the judge will decide the "extent of the design around", as he put it. Whether the E* design around was significant enough so it may not infringe on the same TiVo's patent. If the extent of the design around is only colorable, as the judge said on 9/4, E* is still in trouble, otherwise, E* will be fine. Therefore the anticipated ruling by the judge will be based on just that, the "extent of the design around", as the judge made it clear on 9/4, when he told the E* lead attorney, he could still find E* in contempt if the extent of the design around was only colorable, but only under such condition. The judge did not say he could find E* in contempt under any other conditions, only if the extent of the design around was not a good-faith one.

As much as all the TiVo fans want to read into what the judge had said on 9/4, one thing is clear, the only path the judge laid out to find E* in contempt, as he told the E* lawyer, was if the extent of the design around, in his view, is only colorable. Judge Folsom did not list a second reason to find E* in contempt, the above was the only reason he noted.

**8bitbytes** · 10-06-2008 09:41 PM

Dish should buy Tivo and be done with it.

**HDRoberts** · 10-06-2008 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Greczkowski

This is not a big surprise, I don't think Dish actually ever expected to be heard by the Supreme Court.

I am wondering however if Dish feels that they may lose the software dispute as well as I am hearing rumors that Dish has discontinued all standard definition DVR's. I am hearing new customers will be 622's instead of a SD DVR. (which to me would suck if you are a customer who only watches SD and dosen't have an HD set, as I am sure Dish will charge the customers the HD equipment fees each month.

Dish needs some good PR and needs it now. Unfortunately I don't see any light from the end of the tunnel.

They should have been doing this for a long time. Not only due to the patent case, but to start getting more people to MPEG4. Non VIP receivers should be discontinued, only offering the following:
211: Single TV Receiver
222: Dual Tuner Receiver
612: Single TV DVR
622: Dual Tuner SD DVR (upgradeable to HD)
722: Dual Tuner HD DVR

They the avoid the patent issue, and have a few million less STBs to swap out in the near future. Are the HD boxes really that much more expensive?

Originally Posted by VinceT3

I agree Tivo's patents are a joke and should have been tossed out ages ago.. they never made the technologies, they just learned out to make a buck from it.. that does not equate into a fricken patent..

Couldn't agree more. The patent system has become a joke. You're better off patenting ideas and wait for someone else to do the engineering to perfect it. I don't see how that encourages innovation.

I've long wondered why the "Time Warp" patent isn't thrown out on false claims: It does not, in fact, warp time, it only records TV.

**pez419** · 10-06-2008 10:13 PM

I'm glad I jumped from the Dish boat a while back, it seems like it keeps getting worse for Charlie and the gang.

**Bruno** · 10-06-2008 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by 8bitbytes

Dish should buy Tivo and be done with it.

I agree with YOU......Bruno

**tastim** · 10-06-2008 11:30 PM

Dish isn't going anywhere.... christ people... upwards of 13 million subscribers!

A lot of you fail to realize that the majority of subscribers don't even know about this lawsuit. Us satellite nerds have for a long time.... but the average TV watcher just continues to watch "So You Think You Can Dance" and "House" and doesn't give a flying rat's crap about this "news". This subscriber is not going anywhere.

Sure, it's going to hurt profit margins to an extent... but keep things in perspective.... this company has had 104 MILLION dollars rotting in an escrow account for years and is launching satellites every time a window of launch space becomes available.... any company with that kind of expendable cash flow is not in danger of going out of business any time soon.

**Bruno** · 10-06-2008 11:37 PM

How many Blackberrys did they shut off...They just have to pay the price and you know it would be passed on....to us the customers.

**Drone35** · 10-07-2008 03:10 AM

If Dish new they were probably going to lose in the TIVO case why didn't they pay in 06' now they haft to pay interest too, what a well run company! lol This would have put a new Satellite up for sure! Dish were is ur head!

**jacmyoung** · 10-07-2008 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Drone35

If Dish new they were probably going to lose in the TIVO case why didn't they pay in 06' now they haft to pay interest too, what a well run company! lol This would have put a new Satellite up for sure! Dish were is ur head!

E* had already "paid" the $74 million, by putting the money in the escrow two years ago, that is why now the amount is $104 million, after the interest. Only that now the money will finally go to TiVo, yes including the interest.

Why buy TiVo when E* has a design around? Once there is no contempt, TiVo will be worth very little.