Tivo hearing today?

**Thomas22** · 09-08-2008 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tokafatty

Oh, so the validity of Tivo's patents, which is what Echostar's appeal to the 2005 ruling was based on, is "a procedural error made by the judge"? Interesting.

There wasn't a single allegation of patent invalidity in the appeal nor would it have been proper. The facts of a case are argued in court in front of a judge and/or jury. They provide a judgment. An appeals court doesn't hear more facts. That part is over with. An appeals court just looks at whether mistakes were made such as whether evidence was wrongfully disallowed by the judge.

**Hall** · 09-08-2008 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tokafatty

No good defense... A good defense...

Remember, we're talking about Dish's attorneys... Their track record hasn't been the greatest in the last few years.

**kstuart** · 09-08-2008 04:23 PM

The Forums here usually consist of various people arguing, each of whom maybe understands about 60-70% of the situation.

In contrast, this thread consists of people arguing who understand about 5-10% of the situation.

**aquaman67** · 09-08-2008 06:00 PM

Why argue about who's right or wrong.

Patents scmatants.

It's going to come down to what it always comes down to...MONEY.

The only question is how much.

E* will say "It looks like we're gonna lose we'll give you $XX million."

or

Tivo will say "It looks like we're gonna lose so we'll take $X million."

Remember the Blackberry mess a few years ago?

That's what it's going to come down to...

**jacmyoung** · 09-08-2008 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by navychop

There are no MPEG-4-only DVRs that I've heard of. The MPEG-4 receivers also receive MPEG-2, since there are many channels still in MPEG-2. No point in producing limited capability boxes just for EA.

And I doubt there are ten million plus receivers out there just waiting to be shipped out.

Eastern Arc is an all MPEG4 service, I think the new receivers manufactured for this new service are MPEG4 only?

As far as the expected ruling, all the DISH DVR users have to understand is there are many TiVo investors or followers all over trying to scare people off.

Relax and enjoy your DVR service, nothing will happen. Unless of course all the satellites fall off the sky.

**Thomas22** · 09-08-2008 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by jacmyoung

Eastern Arc is an all MPEG4 service, I think the new receivers manufactured for this new service are MPEG4 only?

TiVo's patent doesn't mention any particular version of MPEG. I guess it looks impressive to post buzz words though. Carry on.

**jacmyoung** · 09-08-2008 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thomas22

TiVo's patent doesn't mention any particular version of MPEG. I guess it looks impressive to post buzz words though. Carry on.

TiVo better do something now, if they wait till DISH is not in contempt ruling is out, their leverage will be much less.

Where is the other TiVo guy? I remember him saying 5/30, then 6/08, then 9/4, did he say anything about 10/1 now?

He also said delay was good after his predictions went bad, as he put it the judge was delaying so to teach DISH a lesson, that the more delay the more DISH would pay.

Last I checked no one was even talking about damages after 4/08. So what was that about delaying for more money?

**Thomas22** · 09-09-2008 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by aquaman67

It looks like we're gonna loose

10 flagrant grammar mistakes that make you look stupid - ZDNet.co.uk

**navychop** · 09-09-2008 09:08 PM

"Eastern Arc is an all MPEG4 service, I think the new receivers manufactured for this new service are MPEG4 only?"

I gather you mean future receivers might be MPEG-4 only. Currently, I believe all the MPEG-4 chipsets also do MPEG-2, so there would be no savings there. However, I suppose they might one day produce such a chipset, especially if there are license fee savings to be had.

But I doubt that today there is much to be saved, and having receivers that won't work on Western Arc would increase costs. Especially if someone was set up for EA, then it was discovered that LOS issues arose at installation, or a year later (tree growth). Having to swap out equipment is expensive.

We aren't going to lose DVR functionality. Even if Tivo somehow wins. I suspect that if Tivo loses, they might not be in business long enough to ever produce those D* HD Tivo boxes.

**mike123abc** · 09-10-2008 02:15 PM

Even TiVo seemed to indicate that the new DVR software did not infringe. The Judge is going to have to decide based on past case law if that is enough to comply with the injunction. If he decides it was enough then he will also have to decide exactly how much Dish owes TiVo since Dish did have a period of time where they were infringing on the patent after the jury verdict and before the new software.