TIVO vs E*

**MikeD-C05** · 11-08-2008 07:15 PM

Charlie's stubborn ass cheapness.

**Zero327** · 11-08-2008 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by MikeD-C05

Charlie's stubborn ass cheapness.

I'm with Chuck on this one. You don't threaten me, try to extort me, put a legal gun to my head and then expect to get paid off so you can walk with my cash and I get your crap stock... I'd spend twice as much as it would cost to buy them, to put them in the ground...

**Greg Bimson** · 11-08-2008 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Zero327

I'm with Chuck on this one. You don't threaten me, try to extort me, put a legal gun to my head and then expect to get paid off so you can walk with my cash and I get your crap stock...

Except that DISH/SATS was found guilty of breaking the law, via infringement of a patent. It isn't extortion if you are guilty.

**CuriousMark** · 11-08-2008 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by jacmyoung

I agree with what Greg said, only to add that if judge rules DISH not in contempt, and tells TiVo they must seek a new trial on the new design around, the whole case will come to a conclusion even faster

If Dish is ruled not in contempt and also ruled more than colorably different, then TiVo would have to file for a finding of infringement via the doctrine of equivalents on the hardware and software claims. Things would go back into discovery mode and a new trial would be scheduled. And the case would go on and on and on. Unless as, jacmyoung seems to be suggesting, TiVo Decides to throw in the towel at that point and simply quit, then it would all be completely over.

**vampz26** · 11-09-2008 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by jacmyoung

I agree with what Greg said, only to add that if judge rules DISH not in contempt, and tells TiVo they must seek a new trial on the new design around, the whole case will come to a conclusion even faster

I think I asked this before but don't recall if you answered...

Are you still an E* sub? I thought you dumped them after being with both providers for a while...

**Zero327** · 11-09-2008 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Greg Bimson

Except that DISH/SATS was found guilty of breaking the law, via infringement of a patent. It isn't extortion if you are guilty.

Yeah yeah... and in a Texas courtroom OJ would be innocent.

**DishSubLA** · 11-09-2008 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by jclewter79

I am not very well versed in these things so, I will ask. Since tivo is a publicly traded company, what would stop E* from buying a controlling amount of their stock?

Poison Pills. Now, Tivo could allow Ergan to be a "major investor" in the company, as he is in many other companies, without giving up control to Ergan. However, Tivo probably wants too much money for our thrifty Ergan. Also, conditions could be attached to any investment such as Dish paying for advertising or other costs. "Hell, no," one can imagine Eran saying. Tivo is in the process of shedding it's hardware business and becoming a strictly software provider--to major satellite and cable companies, and everything for Tivo is really riding on this case and it looks like it may take years to resolve. Dish is the one with the financial resources to let this drag on for years; Tivo is sill on life support and won't last that long.

**DishSubLA** · 11-09-2008 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by CuriousMark

If Dish is ruled not in contempt and also ruled more than colorably different, then TiVo would have to file for a finding of infringement via the doctrine of equivalents on the hardware and software claims. Things would go back into discovery mode and a new trial would be scheduled. And the case would go on and on and on. Unless as, jacmyoung seems to be suggesting, TiVo Decides to throw in the towel at that point and simply quit, then it would all be completely over.

That is exactly what Dish lawyers strategy has been all along. This thing may never get resolved to Tivo's satisfaction, and Ergan is stubborn and believes he did not infringe (as supported by his experts and lawyers) and is willing to fight all the way to prove it, if he has to do so. The irony in all this is that in the end, regardless of who gets the "favorable" judgment, there very well could be some kind of deal between Dish and Tivo. Each is trying to force the other to the bargaining table with the upper-hand. The problem is, Tivo probably wants too much money, and Ergan is offering to little for Tivo's taste. This has years to go, and Dish can easily outlast Tivo in prolonged leagal battle. Even the judge sees it going to new trial, as evidenced by his comments cited in an earlier post.

**jacmyoung** · 11-09-2008 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by CuriousMark

If Dish is ruled not in contempt and also ruled more than colorably different, then TiVo would have to file for a finding of infringement via the doctrine of equivalents on the hardware and software claims. Things would go back into discovery mode and a new trial would be scheduled. And the case would go on and on and on. Unless as, jacmyoung seems to be suggesting, TiVo Decides to throw in the towel at that point and simply quit, then it would all be completely over.

What I meant was even if TiVo does not throw in the towel, it will still be the end of this case. TiVo can go after the new design around, but it will have to be a new trial, independent of the current case.

BTW, the only way DISH may be found not in contempt is if the new design around is found more than colorably different. If one read the 9/4 transcript carefully, noticed the Q/A between the judge and the E*'s attorney on this issue.

The judge forced him to admit even with the design around, E* could still be found in contempt, how so? As the judge said, if the design around was only colorable.

If there were another reason to find E* in contempt, the judge would have mentioned it at that point, but he only pointed out that single reason E* might still be found in contempt.

The TiVo's "face of the order" violation has no ground to stand if the design around is more than colorable.

Now there is certainly the chance the judge finds E* not in contempt on the face, but still grants TiVo's wish of a further discovery on the new design around to determine the colorable difference issue, my bet is it is not likely because the judge on 9/4 repeatedly asked TiVo's attorney what if he found E* not in violation and TiVo had to seek a "new action" either in the DE court, or in his court again, what did that leave you TiVo?

But even if another discovery is granted, if what E* described of its new design around is indeed true, there is no way it can be only colorable. The difference between the new and the old design is so substantial I do not have any doubt it no longer infringes.

The only exception will be if E* was making this whole design around up, or the actual software code is not nearly as what they described.

**jacmyoung** · 11-09-2008 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by vampz26

I think I asked this before but don't recall if you answered...

Are you still an E* sub? I thought you dumped them after being with both providers for a while...

Why do you want to know?