Tivo sanction request against Echostar uncovered: $1Billion

[Greg Bimson]

Again, TiVo met with DISH/SATS in 1999 regarding the possibility of making DVR's for Dish Network. TiVo even left a prototype there. I invite people to look up the court transcripts.



Then somehow, the Media Switch ended up within all DVR's manufactured by DISH/SATS.

Alas, this is OFF-TOPIC, so I'd appreciate we get this back on topic.

[philhu]

And for all of your diehard support, what do you get out of it?

I get to watch Dish BLEED Money because I hate their business practices and think that they are really operation on the other side of the fence legally, not just bending rules.

Dish deserves to be hit hard, for stalling and about 6-7 other cases they played hardball, just using the legal system to their own means.

I beleive in people/companies playing morally straight. Not using the law as a crutch

[DodgerKing]

I have never used a TIVO so I have no opinion on them. I know folks that have them LOVE them so thats not a bad thing.

I do feel that Dish's legal team could keep this case going for years, and I think that is what Tivo is affraid of.

I just wish they would settle and work together, that would be better for everyone.

I have them and HATE them. They have by far the worst designed interface, menus, and remote of any DVR. The most user unfriendly DVR OS.

[DodgerKing]

I would love to see TIVO software on the dish dvrs, hope my 612 is not shut off

No you wouldn't....Trust me. I have never used the VIPs, but from what I have seen others write and say, and have viewed, the VIP software and interface is many many times better than TiVO.

[philhu]

I have them and HATE them. They have by far the worst designed interface, menus, and remote of any DVR. The most user unfriendly DVR OS.

I agree that the Tivo GUI interface is 'dated' It has not been updated since Series 1 but that is not the point here.

BTW, The Tivo interface is going to look beautiful in a few months. I mean, georgeous!

And I LOVE THE REMOTE. The original Peanut. If it is so bad, how come Harmony and most others now make Peanut remotes? You must hate all of them then. You must love the old square 1980's type remote, BOXY and big. Mmmmmmm

[vampz26]

I get to watch Dish BLEED Money because I hate their business practices and think that they are really operation on the other side of the fence legally, not just bending rules.

Dish deserves to be hit hard, for stalling and about 6-7 other cases they played hardball, just using the legal system to their own means.

I beleive in people/companies playing morally straight. Not using the law as a crutch

Lol...and that is EXACTLY the same reason I hope Tivo burns to the bloody ground!

So you can continue down YOUR path of virtue and moral rightousness, and I will continue to profit by it.

I look forward to spending a small portion of my tivo profits on a beatiful 922 receiver that is vastly superior to anything Tivo has ever dreamed of. Thanks Tivo!

[vampz26]

Again, TiVo met with DISH/SATS in 1999 regarding the possibility of making DVR's for Dish Network. TiVo even left a prototype there. I invite people to look up the court transcripts.

Then somehow, the Media Switch ended up within all DVR's manufactured by DISH/SATS.

Alas, this is OFF-TOPIC, so I'd appreciate we get this back on topic.

Yes, urban legend. All urban legend. Tivo has tried to spin E*s exposure to a prototype into a case, but that's where it ends...all this morality play, conspiracy theory, and 'secret echostar plot' to steal from Tivo nonsense is where the urban legend begins...never happened.


...And please stop acting like a mod. Rocky is the mod and doing a damn fine job with no help from you!

[Greg Bimson]

Yes, urban legend. All urban legend. Tivo has tried to spin E*s exposure to a prototype into a case, but that's where it ends...all this morality play, conspiracy theory, and 'secret echostar plot' to steal from Tivo nonsense is where the urban legend begins...never happened.

Yet DISH/SATS admits there was a meeting and admits there was a prototype. Even
credible news organizations

have made mention of that meeting and the prototype. I guess among other redefinitions "urban legend" can be included.

...And please stop acting like a mod. Rocky is the mod and doing a damn fine job with no help from you!

If this were true you'd be on-topic Actually, I cannot blame the mods for something they can't control.

On-Topic: Judge Folsom denied DISH/SATS request to stay the contempt sanctions process. It will proceed, so that any awarded sanctions can also be stayed and appealed for review to the Court of Appeals.

[PrairieDog]

Charlie will screw around like he did with Sirius/XM and let DirecTV take over TiVo. Then he will be paying Liberty for the privilege. But yet, he wasted $$ on the spectrum auction and on Sling.

[david_jr]

Yes, Dish will probably have to pay Tivo pretty much what they want, but by that time, Tivo and Dish will be far more interested in putting together a deal that would be successful and not injurious to the other. This means that Dish might agree to offer a Dish box with a Tivo interface, in exchange for a lower payment for Dish's potentially patent violating boxes. Tivo just has to prevail in this matter to get everyone else to cow, not a billion dollar award. However . . .

If anyone is prepared to avoid the Tivo montly bill no matter how audacious, it is Ergan, and he could have something up his sleeve: something as outrageous as having to pay Tivo in the short term, but in the meantime begin an immediate and accelerated DVR exchange of all named violating DVR's with the ViP's not named in the original suit. Yes, it would take time--and money--but not the forever that Dish would otherwise have to pay Tivo if no such exchange took place. And for Ergan it is also the point, in his view, that if a company, such as Tivo, knows, in truth, that Dish is not violating patents, they aren't going to succeed by fooling a jury (who are out of their depth, as we all are, relating to nether world computer software language and mathematics, and could only authoritatively cite, in several direct quotes in newspaper articles, the fact that Tivo left one their boxes with Dish: Dish had lousy DishPlayer 1000--software by Microsoft--then Dish produces new, well-working DVR, therefore, Dish must have used the Tivo software. But they seem to have omitted from the logic the tons of $$ Dish spent shuttling Linux software and Broadcomm engineers--who also had to know of the nefarious plot--to and fro Denver) and winning over the good guys.

Part of this extended legal road is due to the personality of Ergen, who always believes in going a sportsmen's "all the way" to the Supreme Court, if necessary, but, in fact, has settled lawsuits in the past, so it is not true that Ergan "never" settles. But Charlie cannot be blamed for his taking the legal court fight route: Tivo's terms are that the other party pay for all promotion and marketing--well, EVERYTHING--to get their "product" to the consumer whilst Tivo magnanimously hands-over the software sitting on the shelf. Oh, and while the other party pays for everything else, they also get to send in that monthly check to Tivo for using its software.

If Tivo had been reasonable, Dish would have settled, just as Dish had settled other such lawsuits, TV Guide Gemstar being one example. Although, it would not be unfair to say that Dish may not have been willing to compromise as they otherwise may have, felling a gun to their head. But it is clear that Tivo agreements are a Win, Win situation for Tivo, Tivo, and not for Dish or any other company that has a decent DVR product.

Eloquently put DishSubLa! For these and many other reasons the 1B figure is completely outrageous. It is clear that Tivo is sending a message to all other DVR makers to pay what Tivo wants or you will face the same fate as E*. E* was not found guilty of stealing, they were found to infringe by a jury, which means the jury believed that it was more likely than not that their DVR used Tivo patented technology. That is a pretty low standard so I wouldn't call it stealing per se. E* appealed, won the hardware appeal, lost the software appeal and ended up paying over 100 mil in damages. E* spent a year working on a design around that they claim doesn't infringe, the judge disagreed and found contempt and there will be more damages if E* doesn't win its appeal. How do we go from 100 mil to a billion? The judge did not award legal fees or treble damages in the original case which usually indicates that the judge believes defendant did not act malisciously or in bad faith. Folsom wrote that EchoStar's early efforts to obtain legal opinions on its products vis-à-vis patent infringement "could demonstrate a lack of willfulness" in the infringement. This and the fact that E* worked very hard at a design around should preclude such a punitive award. Tivo's position of course is "there is NO design around possible." I think Judge Folsom is in the Tivo camp now. If the judge found them in contempt for not disabling DVR functionality immediately as ordered, if a design around was not allowed, why did he wait so long to issue the contempt order? Why not just find them in contempt as soon as the order was not followed? Why all the legal harranging for 9 months? And now a billion dollar penalty? Talk about a travesty of justice.