Tivo sanction request against Echostar uncovered: $1Billion

**jacmyoung** · 07-14-2009 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by rockymtnhigh

...Simple. Return to the status quo. ...

What is that status quo we are talking about? That whether E* is in contempt is no longer a sure thing? On 6/2/09 E* was in contempt, on 6/3/09 that order was stayed.

I know currently there is no injunction in effect, which is a lot different than back before 6/3/09 when there was actaully an injunction in effect. Depending on what time period we are talking about, the status quo is very different.

**jacmyoung** · 07-14-2009 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Greg Bimson

The Amended Final Judgment and Permanent Injunction somewhat covered all three items. It certainly mentions the finding of contempt, as well as the enjoining of DISH/SATS and the requiring of DISH/SATS to take certain steps in light of the contempt finding...

This is interesting, after rereading both "the order" and the appeals court's stay order, I must agree with you "the order" referred to the one you just specified above. But then I noticed aside from the three items specifically noted by the appeals court, "the order" above also said:

This Court retains jurisdiction over Defendants to enforce any and all aspects of this Judgment and Permanent Injunction, including the award of monetary sanctions for EchoStar’s contempt of this Court’s injunction.

The Court further retains jurisdiction to award Plaintiff amounts for supplemental damages, interest, costs, attorneys fees and such other or further relief as may be just and proper.

Now like you, I am no lawyer so can't say for sure, but common sense tells me if the order is stayed, everything in it is stayed, that includes the "jurisdictions" claimed by the order?

**tedb3rd** · 07-14-2009 10:36 PM

If Tivo had a billion dollars (If Tivo had a billion dollars)
They'd buy your looooooooove! (and they'd be rich!)

**tornado** · 07-15-2009 01:00 AM

1 Billion Dollars is a lot of money.

**vampz26** · 07-15-2009 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by tornado

1 Billion Dollars is a lot of money.

The sin of greed knows no limits....

**DishSubLA** · 07-15-2009 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by MikeD-C05

Okay DISHSUBLA that being said, do you see DISH /Echostar paying Tivo to license the software eventually? Because I don't see any other option unless Tivo goes under over night.

Yes, Dish will probably have to pay Tivo pretty much what they want, but by that time, Tivo and Dish will be far more interested in putting together a deal that would be successful and not injurious to the other. This means that Dish might agree to offer a Dish box with a Tivo interface, in exchange for a lower payment for Dish's potentially patent violating boxes. Tivo just has to prevail in this matter to get everyone else to cow, not a billion dollar award. However . . .

If anyone is prepared to avoid the Tivo montly bill no matter how audacious, it is Ergan, and he could have something up his sleeve: something as outrageous as having to pay Tivo in the short term, but in the meantime begin an immediate and accelerated DVR exchange of all named violating DVR's with the ViP's not named in the original suit. Yes, it would take time--and money--but not the forever that Dish would otherwise have to pay Tivo if no such exchange took place. And for Ergan it is also the point, in his view, that if a company, such as Tivo, knows, in truth, that Dish is not violating patents, they aren't going to succeed by fooling a jury (who are out of their depth, as we all are, relating to nether world computer software language and mathematics, and could only authoritatively cite, in several direct quotes in newspaper articles, the fact that Tivo left one their boxes with Dish: Dish had lousy DishPlayer 1000--software by Microsoft--then Dish produces new, well-working DVR, therefore, Dish must have used the Tivo software. But they seem to have omitted from the logic the tons of $$ Dish spent shuttling Linux software and Broadcomm engineers--who also had to know of the nefarious plot--to and fro Denver) and winning over the good guys.

Part of this extended legal road is due to the personality of Ergen, who always believes in going a sportsmen's "all the way" to the Supreme Court, if necessary, but, in fact, has settled lawsuits in the past, so it is not true that Ergan "never" settles. But Charlie cannot be blamed for his taking the legal court fight route: Tivo's terms are that the other party pay for all promotion and marketing--well, EVERYTHING--to get their "product" to the consumer whilst Tivo magnanimously hands-over the software sitting on the shelf. Oh, and while the other party pays for everything else, they also get to send in that monthly check to Tivo for using its software.

If Tivo had been reasonable, Dish would have settled, just as Dish had settled other such lawsuits, TV Guide Gemstar being one example. Although, it would not be unfair to say that Dish may not have been willing to compromise as they otherwise may have, felling a gun to their head. But it is clear that Tivo agreements are a Win, Win situation for Tivo, Tivo, and not for Dish or any other company that has a decent DVR product.

**Stargazer** · 07-15-2009 01:46 AM

$2 Billion = $140 per subscriber ($6 per month for two years) at 15 million subscribers. Not all subscribers have DVR service (maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 4) so it could take many years to break even just on the fees that they currently get for their DVR service. It is still a loss because they would have to pay the fee in the meantime to Tivo losing that additional revenue plus lose what they have collected over the last several years.

**vampz26** · 07-15-2009 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Stargazer

$2 Billion = $140 per subscriber ($6 per month for two years) at 15 million subscribers. Not all subscribers have DVR service (maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 4) so it could take many years to break even just on the fees that they currently get for their DVR service. It is still a loss because they would have to pay the fee in the meantime to Tivo losing that additional revenue plus lose what they have collected over the last several years.

Thats what happens when you don't complete in the market and pretend you invented it...

If Tivo built a competitive product that actually stood the test of competition...things would be different, wouldn't they?

Tivo's failures are Tivos own fault...

Expecting Dish to pay for their failure is the crime...

**Tyralak** · 07-15-2009 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by vampz26

Thats what happens when you don't complete in the market and pretend you invented it...

If Tivo built a competitive product that actually stood the test of competition...things would be different, wouldn't they?

Tivo's failures are Tivos own fault...

Expecting Dish to pay for their failure is the crime...

**Mike0616** · 07-15-2009 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by vampz26

Hey...considering how antiquated and corrupt things are, abolishment may not be a bad idea! Seriously, we are due for a complete overhaul of the system and that right soon!

So stealing is OK? That is what the court has held that E* has been doing, call it what you want, its stealing. Or is it OK only when E* is doing it? It amazes me that people are all for putting other people in jail for theft, but when its E* doing it, its ok.

How would you like it if you worked and couldn't get paid for it, every time that you did something someone stole everything you spent your money on and you never saw anything from it? If you would like that, please leave your address and will see if someone can't accommodate you.