FAQ Legacy/Dishpro/DPPlus Conversation Thread

[bcshields]

Hello everyone. The mods have gotten together and we decided to put together a few FAQ threads, but we want your input. The main thread is above, which is stuck, and will remain the pure version of the FAQ. There will be a few more topics as we go along. I thought this would be a good one to start out.

Let's discuss the topic here and we'll add or subtract whatever we need on the stuck thread above.

[bcshields]

Here is a copy of the FAQ

FAQ: Everything you wanted to know about Legacy VS Dishpro VS DishProPlus

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The first thing you need to know when trying to understand the difference between the three technologies is the biology of a length of cable.

The outer jacket is basically there to look pretty and keep water out. The outer conductor, or braid, is designed to keep radio frequencies from interfering with the center conductor. The braid is functionally useless for grounding purposes when it comes to anything stronger than a radio frequency, EMP. The foil helps with EMP but it basically keeps the braid from ripping up the insulation when the cable flexes and bends.
All of this is designed to protect the center conductor. This thin strip of copper is your complete satellite dish communications system. Inside this wire is a whole new world.

Think of the above chart as a frequency cross-section of the center conductor. Legacy receivers and LNBF's send signals back and forth in the 900-1450MHz range. Dishpro uses two frequency ranges at the same time, both the 900-1450 and the 1450-2150 range to communicate back and forth. Dishpro is a brand name for a "stacked" frequency system.

Dishpro Plus uses the 'stacked' technology to eliminate the need to extra wires. With the use of a frequency splitter, Dishpro Plus uses one tuner in the otherwise labeled 'Legacy' range, while using the higher frequency for all of the communications between the second tuner and LNBF. To do this, Dishpro Plus uses a little more voltage when compared to DishPro and Legacy technologies.

The different technologies also have different wire range limitations. Without power boosting via a power inserter, Legacy is limited to 150 wire feet between receiver and LNBF. Dishpro is limited to 200 feet. Dishpro Plus is limited depending on the type of receiver involved. Legacy receivers limit DPP to 150 feet (when another receiver is connected), and Dishpro receivers are limited to 200 feet.

What type of LNBF's and switches that are to be used depends on what type of receiver is being used.

Legacy receivers: Legacy LNBF's and switches OR Dishpro Plus LNBF's IF more than 2 receivers are connected. Can also be attached to ports 2, 3 or 4 of a DPP44 switch. (The power inserter interferes)

DishPro receivers: All LNBF's and switches. DishPro receivers are backwards compatible with Legacy LNBF's and switches.

DishPro Plus Dual Tuners: With one cable, DPP LNBF's and switches only when used with a DPP Separator. Legacy and Dishpro LNBF's and switches will work only if a wire is run to each tuner.

[SimpleSimon]

Legacy receivers and LNBF's send signals back and forth in the 900-1450MHz range. Dishpro uses two frequency ranges at the same time, both the 900-1450 and the 1450-2150 range to communicate back and forth.

Legacy LNBF's send signals to the receivers in the 900-1450MHz range. Dishpro LNBFs use two frequency ranges at the same time, both the 900-1450 (for odd transponders) and the 1650-2150 range (for even transponders) to send signals to the receivers.

Legacy receivers send control signals to switches using a 22KHz tone, and use voltage switching between 13VDC (odd transponders) and 18VDC (even transponders) to control the selected LNBF. DishPro receivers are always running at 18VDC and use only the 22KHz data path to send control commands.

Note that the high-band starts at SIXteen-fifty MHz, not Fourteen-fifty. The attached frequency chart should be updated, too.
====================

Dishpro Plus uses the 'stacked' technology to eliminate the need to extra wires. With the use of a frequency splitter, Dishpro Plus uses one tuner in the otherwise labeled 'Legacy' range, while using the higher frequency for all of the communications between the second tuner and LNBF. To do this, Dishpro Plus uses a little more voltage when compared to DishPro and Legacy technologies.

Dishpro Plus uses the 'stacked' technology to eliminate the need to run an extra wire for the second tuner in a dual-tuner receiver. With the use of a frequency splitter known as a DPP Separator, Dishpro Plus uses one tuner to control all switching. That tuner receives signals in the otherwise labeled 'Legacy' range. The second tuner uses the higher frequency band. A significant difference between DP and DPPlus is that EITHER band can contain either odd or even transponders from any available LNBF.

I dropped the "higher voltage" statement because I can't find a reference to it in official docs.
====================

The different technologies also have different wire range limitations. Without power boosting via a power inserter, Legacy is limited to 150 wire feet between receiver and LNBF. Dishpro is limited to 200 feet. Dishpro Plus is limited depending on the type of receiver involved. Legacy receivers limit DPP to 150 feet (when another receiver is connected), and Dishpro receivers are limited to 200 feet.

The different technologies also have different wire range limitations. Without power boosting via a power inserter, Legacy receivers are limited to 150 wire feet between receiver and LNBF. Dishpro/DPPlus receivers are limited to 200 feet.

Just a simplification.
====================

Legacy receivers: Legacy LNBF's and switches OR Dishpro Plus LNBF's IF more than 2 receivers are connected. Can also be attached to ports 2, 3 or 4 of a DPP44 switch. (The power inserter interferes)

Legacy receivers: Legacy LNBF's and switches OR Dishpro Plus LNBF's IF more than 1 receiver is connected. Can also be attached to a DPP44 switch.

Changed "more than two". I can NOT find any restriction on attaching a Legacy box to DPP44 output port #1.
====================

DishPro Plus Dual Tuners: With one cable, DPP LNBF's and switches only when used with a DPP Separator. Legacy and Dishpro LNBF's and switches will work only if a wire is run to each tuner.

DishPro Plus Dual Tuners: Will work the same as DishPro, plus, when used with a DPPlus Separator, only one cable needs to be run between the receiver and the DPPlus switch or LNBF.
Legacy and Dishpro LNBF's and switches will work only if a separate wire is run to each tuner.

Change for clarity (IMO).

[bcshields]

Thanks Simon, I have edited the main document to reflect your changes.

I have somethig I wanted to throw out there.

Larrystotler pm'd me with a few changes.

The lower band is 950-1450Mhz. DP's upper band is the 1650-2150Mhz. It puts the evens there, and reverses them AFAIK. DP is called Band Stacked. Also, DP+ emplys Band-Translation(the technical term).

Also, legacy systems use 13 and 18Volt switching. 13 for odds, 18 for evens. DP is a constant 19.6Volts.

D* uses the 22khz tone to get the 119/110 Evens. E*'s legacy uses the 22khz tone with a digital component. DP uses disceq(sp?) v2.0 for satellite selection.

Max cable length for Legacy E* or D* is 125ft using RG6 copper-clad steel center conductor. Max with E* is 200 ft when using Solid Copper center conductor.

Do we want to get into the differences of voltage per odd/even transponder? My only worry is that if the info is too detailed, it'll get dry, but also that it'll help out people who wish to try to hack. Problem is I don't know what info is needed to hack so I'm not sure if it's too far or not.

What do you guys think?

[SimpleSimon]

Larry is saying pretty much what I did in my first correction section. He added some detail in cable lengths that sounds right. I think the voltage info is important - it'll help folks troubleshoot.

ALL of the info the three of us have posted IS public information. Sources are:

• E* install documents (which are far from secret)
• DiSEqC (that's the correct spelling and capitalization) is a trademarked signalling method, but also public info.
• and finally, E* patents (which are public) state this stuff too.

There's nothing here that a pirate could use. It's possible that it could give a sharp newbie enough info to try some inventive switching, but very few of them work.

Actually, tho, you DO have a point about "dry" or "too much". If this were a web page we could get a little fancy with dynamic links to hide or expose the extra detail as the reader desired. That goes back to what we've talked about before - a non-thread FAQ section of the site. Maybe this can grow in that direction.

[BobaBird]

Dishpro Plus uses one tuner in the otherwise labeled 'Legacy' range, while using the higher frequency for all of the communications between the second tuner and LNBF.

Is it the second tuner that does the communicating? I'm not sure, but I thought it was Tuner1. Also I believe the communication would actually be to the DPP switch which selectively stacks the signals from any of the connected LNBFs.

=========

Change Dishpro to DishPro throughout.
DiSEqC = Digital Satellite Equipment Control

=========

Dishpro Plus uses the 'stacked' technology to eliminate the need to extra wires.

Dishpro Plus selectively uses the 'stacked' technology to eliminate the need for a second wire to a dual tuner receiver.

IOW, pretty much what SS suggested.

[DPplus]

I am posting because I see there is a DishPro product some called DPplus, and the DPplus.com internet domain is being auctioned at AfterNIC.com. I thought some of the people here might want to know. The auction closes October 6th; you can follow the progress of the auction, or even bid, at
http://www.afternic.com/name.php?id=11038733

.

---Jordan Lee Wagner
617-953-6787
Wagner@NRHQ.com

[lakebum431]

Why the heck would we want to know that?

[gernskin]

Just wanted to add a little info I learned years ago about cable.
The signal actually travels on the void that the dialetric(?) filler creates.
thus the requirement for RG6 over RG59 because DPP uses the outer part of the filler to transmit the higher freq. or more freq at one time.
A hughes trainer told me he once removed the copper wire from the cable and the signal still traveled to the reciever, the copper wire was only used to change from odd to even transponders

Gern

[Pepper]

What Larry said about the even transponders being reversed, I believe is incorrect. I originally thought this was true as well until I did some experimentation with a FTA receiver and DishPro FSS LNBF.

Regarding hacking, some of this info would be as useful to them as it is to legit subscribers in getting the equipment connected, but that's all. What the scum are really interested in is the encryption. The cabling infrastructure has nothing to do with that.