Tivo sanction request against Echostar uncovered: $1Billion

[AdamGott]

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Originally Posted by philhu

I agree that the Tivo GUI interface is 'dated' It has not been updated since Series 1 but that is not the point here.

BTW, The Tivo interface is going to look beautiful in a few months. I mean, georgeous!

And I LOVE THE REMOTE. The original Peanut. If it is so bad, how come Harmony and most others now make Peanut remotes? You must hate all of them then. You must love the old square 1980's type remote, BOXY and big. Mmmmmmm

I am surprised that TIVO did not patent the remote (e.g. the entire patent would read 'A remote control that has curves in the middle.'). Then they could be suing everyone else in the home entertainment field...

[vampz26]

Originally Posted by AdamGott

I am surprised that TIVO did not patent the remote (e.g. the entire patent would read 'A remote control that has curves in the middle.'). Then they could be suing everyone else in the home entertainment field...

I guess it beats actually working for a living.

[Curtis0620]

Originally Posted by vampz26

I guess it beats actually working for a living.

So the R&D time spent on the product doesn't count. TiVo didn't have the benefit of stealing it from someone else, like DISH did.

[JimK2]

Originally Posted by Greg Bimson

Again, TiVo met with DISH/SATS in 1999 regarding the possibility of making DVR's for Dish Network. TiVo even left a prototype there. I invite people to look up the court transcripts.

Then somehow, the Media Switch ended up within all DVR's manufactured by DISH/SATS.

Alas, this is OFF-TOPIC, so I'd appreciate we get this back on topic.

Media Switch = analog

Dan Minnick, vice president of software for EchoStar. Minnick also testified that there was no media switch. He also testified that after Echostar’s engineers met with TiVo’s engineers “early on”, they followed-up with Echostar’s inhouse counsel, Kerry Miller and that Miller gave them a verbal legal opinion over the telephone that Echostar did not infringe TiVo’s patent Minnick said “We know we don’t have a media switch because we broadcast in MPEG, we have no need for software that will convert (television signals) to MPEG.

Tivo pick a small town of Marshall, Texas, population 23,000, for their suit and U.S. District Judge David Folsom that doesn't understand technology that well.

U.S. Judge David Folsom yesterday denied that request and a hearing is scheduled for July 28 in Marshall, Texas.

[Curtis0620]

They are clueless.

[vampz26]

Originally Posted by Curtis0620

So the R&D time spent on the product doesn't count. TiVo didn't have the benefit of stealing it from someone else, like DISH did.

Sure...its already been established that Tivo STOLE from replay...

...and I would have to say the real hard work in R and D was done by DishNetwork to produce a VASTLY superior product.

Which is why Tivo is looking to steal the true innovation from Dish.

Slapping a video capture card in a linux box based on an idea stolen from Replay is hardly R and D. Lol.

[CuriousMark]

Originally Posted by JimK2

Media Switch = analog

No, it is and always was purely digital.

Dan Minnick, vice president of software for EchoStar. Minnick also testified that there was no media switch. He also testified that after Echostar’s engineers met with TiVo’s engineers “early on”, they followed-up with Echostar’s inhouse counsel, Kerry Miller and that Miller gave them a verbal legal opinion over the telephone that Echostar did not infringe TiVo’s patent Minnick said “We know we don’t have a media switch because we broadcast in MPEG, we have no need for software that will convert (television signals) to MPEG.

Thus demonstrating a lack of understanding of the patent. Dan and the counsel probably needed to do a little more homework back then, or knowingly chose to misunderstand the patent in order to bolster their own belief that they were OK. Unfortunately for Dan, at trial that belief was proved wrong.

Tivo pick a small town of Marshall, Texas, population 23,000, for their suit and U.S. District Judge David Folsom that doesn't understand technology that well.

You forgot that TiVo also bought a cow at the local county fair.

TiVo most likely picked that town because of its reputation for handling these kinds of trials quickly which minimized lawyer costs. At the time, litigation costs were a big issue for TiVo, though not for Dish.

[jacmyoung]

Originally Posted by CuriousMark

...You forgot that TiVo also bought a cow at the local county fair.

TiVo most likely picked that town because of its reputation for handling these kinds of trials quickly which minimized lawyer costs. At the time, litigation costs were a big issue for TiVo, though not for Dish.

Please, TiVo picked that town like every other patentee did back then, because up to that point that little town's juries had the reputation of siding with the patentees 100% of the time, that was why.

But after the TiVo v. E* case, the tide began to turn. Several defendants, including E*, began to win their patent cases. One of the reasons they began to win the cases was because they changed their strategy.

Before then, most defendants tried to convince the jury of two things, no infringment, and the patent was not valid anyway even if infringement was true. That two pronged approach confused the jury in that little town, they were straight thinkers, they did not understand why one would first argue no I did not infringe, but then even if I infringed, the patent was not valid anyway. That strategy undermined the defendants' credibility.

If you do not infringe, then prove you do not, if the patent is not valid, then prove it is not, don't throw both at us, we are not lawyers.

E* changed their strategy the same year they lost the TiVo v. E* case, and won their case against Forgent, by convincing the jury only one thing, the Forgent patent was invalid, without ever trying to also prove to the jury they did not infringe.

Several other defendants in other patent cases did the same and won their cases. Since then, that little town became less and less of a favorite spot for the patentees.

As for TiVo buying a cow at that town, how much do you want to bet they did so after they got drunk in the parties at the local bars after winning their case? Funny you even mentioned it.

[rockymtnhigh]

Guys, you have beat this horse dead. It is no longer about the topic of the request for the sanction. We are done playing these stupid petty games. This one is closed, until there is more NEWS, and we will reopen a thread again to discuss it.