MOXI for OTA or Dish users?

[netdecal]

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Has anyone heard any rumors that MOXI might be developing a DVR for satellite or OTA users?

[DishSubLA]

No. Moxie will not go down that road as it would be too expensive with insufficient returns. Similar reasons why TiVo did not make their Series 3 HD boxes compatible with satellite: too expensive. TiVo kept the OTA option (analog and digital) because they were already getting monthly fees (billing system up and running) to pay for the high quality, in-depth guide data from Tribune Media, and TiVo was already established with OTA users who expected such a feature in the Series 3 boxes. The quality of the free PSIP data varies by DMA/Markert and, in some cities, is quite unreliable for consistently reliable DVR recordings, as some DTVPal DVR by Dish Network users in some cities have experienced.

No, current models of Moxie are not capable of receiving OTA digital broadcast channels. The DTVPal DVR by Dish Network only receives digital OTA and digital OTA High Definition, but, ASFAIK, does not use Name Based Recording, but instead uses hard times only, like the old 501's before they were made capable of NBR. It is, however, free of any monthly charges.

I should add that Moxie will work with FiOS. This is because once FiOS reaches your home, it is then distributed with coaxial cable throughout your house using the CableLabs specification. In other words, once FiOS reaches your home, it becomes cable TV just like your local cable co.

The current Moxie HD product, which I do like as an alternative to TiVo with no monthly charges, isn't for everyone and has some very important caveats:

1. The Moxie HD DVR will receive digital cable channels ONLY, no analog cable and, of course, no digital OTA. However, you can purchase for $129 an external device that will allow Moxie HD to record only ONE analog cable channel, but really, after spending big $$$ for the box in the first place, let's just agree to a "No, Moxie doesn't support analog cable." If one needs the analog cable and digital OTA right out of the box (recording 2 analog cable channels), then TiVo HD, HDXL is it.

2. The new Moxie HD 3 tuner model--a beautiful idea costing a lot of extra money-- will, in some cable systems, only be able to use 2 of its 3 tuners if a cable system is using SDV and the concomitant SDV adapter.

3. The preference of TiVo or Moxie is going to be extremely subjective as each has its advantages and disadvantages which some consider very significant, when compared, but the Moxie does have all of its GUI in High-Def, and quite a lot of people are swayed by that and its superior Multi-room viewing solution.

If Moxie had offered a digital OTA, I would have gotten that instead of my TiVo Series 3. This means that it really is pretty much only TiVo with the sophisticated digital OTA option as I find DTVPal DVR by Dish Network's lack of Name Based Recording to be, to me, unacceptable, although many users of that product are satisfied with that compromise.

[DishSubLA]

I thought I would do a pre-emptive strike and explain why it is too expensive for 3rd parties such as TiVo and Moxie to design boxes to work with Direc TV and Dish Network. And, no, the content providers do NOT like component or high-quality/HD inputs for recording on STB's. This is why neither Moxie nor TiVo designed their HD boxes with cabled inputs like TiVo's earlier series for recording from a satellite output to an input on the TiVo or Moxie. It seems content owners have succeeded in eliminating almost every device with a component input.

Why too expensive for 3rd party satellite DVR's?:

Unlike cable TV that has a specification from CableLabs that essentially means all cable cos. use the same specification, satellite has no such common or industry specification. This means it would be very expensive for 3rd parties to design equipment that would work for both DBS companies, and most likely NO company would make such equipment because the economies aren't so good unless there is standardization, like for cable TV. While at its foundation DBS technology is the same, how Direc TV and Dish Network handle the challenge of looking at several satellites and support multiple single and dual tuners boxes in one home is VERY different. Direc TV''s SWM system (Channel Stacking Switch) and Dish Network's DishPro technology (Band Translation Switch) are completely different and incompatible. Also incompatible is the platform each uses for SD with Direc using its proprietary DSS while Dish uses DVB (for HD both use DVB). Furthermore, both companies now use other satellite bands in additions to DBS: Direc using Ka sats for HD while Dish uses a Ku FSS sat for internationals (Dish also used it in the past for other Dish services.)

Now, you can see with all those hardware and software differences, the economies and unpredictability of technology change from either company and the need to future-proof--adding more cost for a 3rd party--the boxes to Direc and Dish specifications (Dish downloaded Turbo Coding on its HD boxes well after those boxes had been out in many homes, but that requires the proper chip, and other hardware that had to built-in ahead of time otherwise a lot of people with improper 3rd party boxes would have no longer been able to view Dish HDTV) makes a 3rd party see that it is too expensive and not enough return to even bother to manufacture boxes that can work with either or both DBS company. There was a TV that did have Direc TV reception capability built into it some years ago, but no such product like it has emerged since.

As for FiOS, while it is a Fiber to the Home (or Premises) system, the last "mile" of distribution throughout your home is done using coaxial cable using the CableLabs specification. Meaning that after FiOS is delivered to your home, it then is translated into cable TV just like your local cable company's specifications. That is why TiVo and Moxie will work with Verizon's FiOS.

AT&T Uverse uses IP (yet another specification to deal with as a 3rd party) and is NOT compatible with TiVo or Moxie, which are designed for the CableLabs specification (and NTSC and ATSC in the case of TiVo Series 3 HD boxes).

[netdecal]

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of the DTVPal DVR before. It looks like that may be the way I go. I have some concerns about guide but other than that it looks like just what I was after.

[DishSubLA]

Originally Posted by netdecal

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of the DTVPal DVR before. It looks like that may be the way I go. I have some concerns about guide but other than that it looks like just what I was after.

Good. The only reason I got the TiVo Series 3 was because I really needed (and wanted) Name Based Recording. Otherwise, I would have gotten the DTVPal DVR--if more units had been available, as well. Users who understand it is a bare-bones DVR (with no monthly fee--Yeaaaa!) do like the product very much, as I'm sure I would have had it had NBR. Unfortunately, I really do depend on NBR on my TiVo Series 3.

The only place I know of that is currently selling the DTVPal DVR is Sears dot com, their on-line store. Perhaps others can share where else the DTVPal DVR is avaialble. Good luck; I hope you find what you are looking for.