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- 05-07-2009 03:52 PM #41
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Do you actually have to sub to bell to get this or can you pick up a bell receiver on ebay and start getting this service automatically? What I dont understand is why these channels arent available in the us anyhow.
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- 05-07-2009 03:52 PM # ADS
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- 05-07-2009 03:59 PM #42
from the sounds of the CRTC hearing, there will be hundreds of channels available on Ka band on Nimiq 4 for free. However, any one person will only receive 5 or so of their local channels.
So I assume that you would need a Bell receiver (an FTA receiver likely wont work), and it would need to be authorized by Bell so that you only receive your locals, and not other locals. But time will tell.
In the mean time, lets see if we can find any feeds on 82W while they test the technology.
- 05-07-2009 04:04 PM #43
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I am still wondering if Bell will have any terms and conditions for freesat, such as requiring a phone line to be hooked up. I also wonder if they will allow 2 or 3 receivers at one house for the free service. It will be interesting to read the fine print on this deal.
- 05-07-2009 04:12 PM #44
In the 1 hour CRTC hearing, I think they mentioned something about mulitple receivers - judging by the nature of the discusion with the CRTC, I think multiple receivers wont be an issue. The whole idea of this freesat is to provide free access to local channels for all Canadians.
And does anyone know if the Ka band on Nimiq 4 is on spotbeams? I believe part of the nature of Ka is spotbeams to free up bandwidth, so if this is the case it's possible it wont be encrypted... not likely though.
- 05-07-2009 04:32 PM #45
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Just a thought. One possible reason for the freesat to be in the clear is if Bell pays the Nagravision folks a license fee for every channel that is encrypted. They may not want to pay to scramble channels that they are giving away for free?
- 05-07-2009 05:16 PM #46
If that's the case, that they pay per channel encrypted, then odds would be very good for us to get it unencrypted.
No business is in business to lose money. They gotta make money somehow. And if they're giving it away, they're making money somehow. The devil will be in the details, somewhere. Most likely on the receiver and install, and then an opportunity to sub people. The local cable company shows all channels that can be subscribed to in the program guide whether or not you're subscribed. That way people will know what they're missing, and have to have it.Winegard 1M on a Sadoun DG380 HH motor at 63.5W
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- 05-07-2009 07:02 PM #47
I would doubt that it would not be encrypted. Bell would want to try to upsell anyone using the service. It might end up free for the end users, but they would want to sell their receivers that can only be used for the freesat service or their paid service. Why let the consumer use a receiver that they might use to receive other signals. Who would pay the cost.... why the bradcasters that want their signal on the satellite and there would probably be an administration fee as well for them to manage the service. To the end user it might be freesat, but to Bell its selling their service. Also, what is the list price of those receivers.... not the subsidised price?
- 05-07-2009 07:12 PM #48
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Well if that is all they are talking about I'll stick to OTA, since going Bell's route would cost me more money with no extra channels. I can get all 4 of my local channels over the air with rabbit ears in my basement apartment even if they are a bit fuzzy. Since I have use of the yard I can see an outdoor antenna going up to get them better rather than spending several hundred more to get them in overcompressed quality on bell's equipment. Since all my OTA channels are on VHF, I can design and build my own antenna for less than $50.Right near the beginning it mentions Ka band as the technology. Existing bell customers would need a new antenna to 'downgrade' to the Ka system, or to receive it in addition to there existing Bell programing.
11:00 - every local station into every local community. (somewhere they mention the back haul cost for the local station to get there signal to Bell is paid for by the local station, and would use terrestrial back haul.
31:50 - use an existing Bell STB - cost to new customer would be $350-$400CDN + installation. The proposed date for freesat to be available is Q3-2010.
I think that this has to do more with Bell getting the locals for free than anything else. It will help people who are in fringe areas, but if anyone lives within 20 miles of the transmitting towers they would we better off as is.
- 05-07-2009 07:21 PM #49
Will the broadcasters keep their OTA antenna's if they use the freesat service? What happens to your rabbit ears and fuzzy picture after the digital transition? I have lost quite a few channels due to the switch from VHF to UHF and the extremely weak signals of the digital signals.
- 06-25-2009 06:57 PM #50
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A rather long copy and paste from the
Friends of Canadian broadcasting website
with a few more details fleshed out.
I think the estimate cost of $500 for subscriber equipment (installed) is going to be a deal breaker for many people, what kind of gear would need to cost that much?
It looks like they are proposing to use existing Bell receivers with some sort of CAM or card and a new dish/LNB.
I don't know much about KA band but presumably the antenna would be no larger than KU band, probably smaller. How much would rain and snow affect the higher KA band frequency?
Its going to be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Re: Broadcasting Notice of Consultation CRTC 2009-113 Licence Renewals for Private Conventional Television Stations: Comments on Bell Television's "FreeSat" Proposal
May 10, 2009
Mr. Robert A. Morin
Secretary General
Canadian Radio-television and
Telecommunications Commission
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N2
Dear Mr. Morin:
During our presentation to the Commission on May 6, 2009, Vice-Chair Arpin asked me to file comments regarding the Bell Television "FreeSat" proposal.
At the outset, we wish to congratulate the Commission for providing leadership on the issue of Canada's conversion to over-the-air digital television. In contrast, we note with regret that the Government of Canada has yet to respond to the Digital Task Force report which was submitted to the Department of Canadian Heritage in 1997. Canada is required by treaty to abandon broadcasting transmission on the relevant VHF and UHF television spectrum by 2011. Thus far, the government has announced no subsidy to assist analog households to acquire converters. Nor has the government offered to assist broadcasters with the substantial cost of digital conversion.
If the FreeSat proposal were to be launched, Bell representatives have estimated that consumers would need to purchase a satellite dish and converter equipment at a cost in the order of $350-400 per household (plus installation). We ask the Commission to bear in mind that one reason why almost 10% of Canadians receive their signals over the air is because they cannot afford to subscribe to a cable or satellite distributor. The FreeSat proposal needs to be examined in this context.
In our submission, FRIENDS advocated on behalf of the three million Canadians who rely on OTA reception. Canadian Media Research Inc. has found that "given the slowing trend in the past 4‐5 years, it seems unlikely that the OTA segment will decline by much in coming years" and the CMRI study also indicates that 26% of OTA viewers cannot afford the BDU charges. In other words, OTA viewing by millions of Canadians will continue to be a feature of our audio‐visual system well into the future.
Cities with OTA viewing exceeding the Canadian average include: Windsor (27%), Saskatoon (15%), Montreal (14%), Quebec and Sherbrooke (13%). Even in cities with a lower proportion of OTA viewing, the number of viewers is substantial, for example: Toronto (477,000), Vancouver (138,000), Edmonton (113,000), and Ottawa (111,000). CMRI also reports that, even in households subscribing to a BDU service, not all television sets are hooked up to the cable/satellite service. OTA viewing accounted for 25% of TVO's audience in 2006, 16% for CBC‐TV, 14% for CTV and 8% for Global.
We understand that the proposed FreeSat service would provide a minimum of five local and regionally relevant stations to communities across Canada which would otherwise no longer receive over-the-air television signals after the conversion to digital transmission had been completed and where local broadcasters have chosen not to build an OTA digital transmitter.
Reception of these standard definition digital signals would be provided free to consumers who spent $500 to replace their OTA antenna with a KA band satellite dish and a set top box, which would be authorized to receive the FreeSat service. Customers would also be responsible for the cost of installation, if required. Bell would utilize a specifically designed FreeSat dish but the set-top box would come from Bell's existing stock.
While FreeSat customers would not be required to subscribe to any of Bell Television's services, the FreeSat dish would be capable of receiving many Bell Television services. These would be available to the FreeSat customer at additional cost should the customer choose to subscriber to these services. Conversely, if existing Bell Television customers wished to downgrade to the FreeSat service, they would be able to do so by replacing their current equipment with the FreeSat equipment, also at their expense.
Assuming timely acceptance of all terms of the FreeSat proposal, it is estimated that the service could be up and running by the end of September 2010, well in advance of the Commission's target digital completion date of August 31, 2011.
The cost of back hauling the local signals to the Bell Television uplink facility in Toronto would be borne by the individual station group or, where applicable, the independent station.
Bell Television would operate the FreeSat service on a cost recovery basis1 only, with the following costs recouped from monies that Bell would otherwise have paid to the Local Programming Improvement Fund (LPIF) including:
* Start-up costs for FreeSat
* $1 million for bandwidth costs annually
* Customer care
* Cost of software for the dishes
* Annual maintenance costs
* Warranty repairs to boxes and equipment
* Cost and maintenance of the head end equipment and security system
* Broadcasters would be expected to give up their rights to distant signal revenue
Bell Television has estimated that, other than startup and bandwidth costs, all other costs would equal $50 per household per year, or $4 million per year based on the 80,000 subscribers that Bell projects for FreeSat. The offer to implement FreeSat service is contingent on Bell Television's overall contribution to Canadian programming (Canadian Television Fund, Bell Fund, small market programming fund and the LPIF) not exceeding 6% in the aggregate, as well as successful resolution of the distant signal negotiations with the station groups.
Maintaining a conduit by which current over-the-air homes can continue to receive their local signals is an important public policy issue, and FRIENDS applauds Bell Television's initiative in proposing FreeSat. In many communities we consider that the introduction of FreeSat could result in many homes getting an even better selection of television choice than they currently enjoy.
We note, with regret, however, that in many cases Bell Television does not seem to envisage including regional services such as TV Ontario or comparable educational broadcasters, apparently because their signals are regional, rather than local. We believe that provincial educational broadcasters' signals are already delivered to the Bell uplink facility. We recommend that Bell Television amend its proposal to include the provincial educational broadcaster, where it exists, as part of the FreeSat package of channels.
FRIENDS' primary concern is for the 3,000,000 Canadians who now receive their television signals over-the-air, as well as the overall impact that acceptance of this proposal would have on resources in the LPIF.
Considering that approximately 900,000 households' access to television reception may be curtailed by digital conversion, we recognize that many are located in urban areas where they have access to cable monopoly services but choose not to subscribe. FreeSat will probably not appeal to those households, including residents of large apartment and condominium buildings (multiple unit dwellings). Rather, we consider that FreeSat will be an attractive option to some residents of rural communities who can afford the initial capital outlay.
Analog households in most larger urban communities will have access to OTA digital signals, and therefore will be able to utilize a simple digital convertor box to watch television. As I mentioned to Vice Chair Arpin on May 6, FreeSat is a misnomer, as it would cost $500 to install. And, while it has promise in rural and smaller urban areas to help relatively affluent families, it does not address the issue of the other 90% of Canadians who currently receive analog signals over the air.
Yours sincerely,
Ian Morrison
Spokesperson
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