Thread: Experience with the Prof 7300 PC card

Grimgnaw - I'm not casting any doubt on your overall assessment of the Prof 7300 vs. Pansat 9200HD. But you cannot compare signal levels and quality between two different units. The scales are completely arbitrary for each and are in no way calibrated to indicate the same level of reception for the same numerical value.

I do not have a 7300, but the key component in it is the CX24116 demod. It happens to be the same chip used in the previous generation DVB World 2104, which I do have. I also have a Pansat 9200HD (with the newer DVB-S2 plus card) and the Prof 7301 and 7500. Interestingly, the 9200HD S2+ card and the 7301 and 7500 all use the STV0903 demod. The Pansat only uses this demod for S2 reception and S/S2 scanning (which also picks up plain S); the 9200HD has a fairly old demod for DVB-S reception and S-only scanning.

A comparison of sensitivity and ability to lock difficult signals is very easy. My DVB World 2104 clearly outperforms my 9200HD for DVB-S reception. As the 2104 demod is the same as in the Prof 7300, it is not surprising that you are seeing the same difference. However the Prof 7301 is much better than the 2104 for DVB-S or DVB-S2 reception. Because the 9200HD S2+ card has the same demod as the 7301, it's also not surprising that I see little difference in performance between the 9200HD and 7301 for DVB-S2 reception. The previous S2 add-on card (no plus) for the 9200HD was not very good at all and ranked behind the 2104, and presumably the 7300.

pendragon - While the basis of those figures likely differs between the Pansat and the 7300 (and cannot be compared precisely ) each set does indicate their builder's confidence in what is seen and what is derived from the signal. The relatively small difference in level correlates with the fact they are provided the same signal and the gross difference in the Quality measure (positively) correlates with the fact that the Pansat produced digital noise while the 7300 had a solid pictures for the indicated satellite. Of course, from what you said, the fact that these are "S" signals, only implies the 7300 has a better front end than the Pansat original ("S") front end.

Also now, based on what you said, the Pansat 9200hd with the + card (using the STV0903) should be able to produce a picture on some marginal "S2" channels where the 7300 cannot. By gradually moving the dish off of the optimal direction one should be able to test this thesis for a comparison of "S2" demodulation capabilities. The CBS channels on Galaxy 28 may be one reasonable target.

Grimgnaw - maybe I'm just a cynic, but I wonder if some of the receiver vendors or PC software driver developers adjust their SQ percentage scales to make the unsuspecting believe their new products are better than the prior generation. In most cases where I've seen the code, these scales are monotonically related to CNR, and not to a BER threshold or something similar that could take into account the overall quality of the lock, normalized for the signal particulars (CNR, SR, bits per symbol, FEC, etc.).

When I was testing the Prof 7301/7500 last fall against my other PC tuners, I did some spot checks on my Pansat 9200HD S2+ card with S2 signals. It seemed to lock about the same as the Profs I was testing. I also compared the S2+ card blindscanning against the code I was writing for the 7301/7500. They were fairly similar, although I believe the S2+ card can be beat with better software.

First, I must mention that the Prof 7301 and the DVB-S2+ upgrade for the Pansat 9200hd have a common "front end" demod chip (credits are below). Thus, this comparison is actually between a Prof 7300 and the Panast 9200hd with its DVB-S2+ upgrade.

The first “front end” comparison of the Pansat 9200hd (wi the S2+) and the Prof 7300 was with NBC Central, DVB-S2 (H.264) on AMC18 (105W) TP 3780 H SR 30k. The results of this test was not what I expected in that the Pansat could not even provide a stable smooth picture even when the dish was well aligned. It had a stutter whereas the Prof 7300 using the DivX H264 codec was well behaved. This fault was likely a function of the Pansat codec and not a function of signal strength.

The second front end comparison of the Pansat 9200hd (wi the S2+) and the Prof 7300 was with Universal Sports, DVB-S2 (MPEG) also on AMC18 (105W) TP 3780 H SR 30k. To degrade the signal the polarity of the feedhorn was changed from the horizontal position by 5 degree increments and at 20 deg both pictures froze and at 10 deg both were well behaved. At 15 degrees off of horizontal the Pansat continued to be smooth while the Prof 7300 progressed in discrete increments. A coarse MPG of this is at the following link where the Pansat is shown on a CRT on the right side and the 7300 on the left on a lcd:


UnivSportMPEGComparison

You may have to download this file to your computer for playing if your internet download speed is insufficient to provide a smooth picture on the right side.

The above is, as espoused by pendragon in an earlier post and also alluded to by zamar23, evidence that the STV0903 demod (used on the Pansat S2+ addon and the Prof 7301) constitutes a better “front end” than the CX24116 which is used on the 7300. Thanks to pendragon for, in effect, alerting me to the fact that this chip was in my Pansat S2+ unit and, in effect, just waiting to be compared with my 7300.

Of course, the degree of improvement provided by this "intermediate stage" in the signal chain is, as I mentioned earlier, likely small compared to that of substituting a phase lock loop lnb for the DRO type. Nevertheless it is real unless someone can show that the implementation of this chip in the S2+ upgrade is better than in the 7301.

I need a list of mobo that works FINE with 730x Prof card.A list of mobo's that we should avoid it'll be great too
What kind of CPU requires 730x card?

BestReards
DoktorOfSat

Originally Posted by doktorofsat

I need a list of mobo that works FINE with 730x Prof card.A list of mobo's that we should avoid it'll be great too
What kind of CPU requires 730x card?

BestReards
DoktorOfSat

I would suggest any cpu found on the following chart:

PassMark Intel vs AMD CPU Benchmarks - High End

After you choose a cpu then any motherboard that can handle it will do the trick with a couple Gigs of ram. My cpu has just fallen off the bottom of that chart in the last month but is still quite sufficient.

The most effort will be in the acquisition and installation of video and audio codecs. Google search for the following names for such:
DivX (excellent one for H.264)
Etymonix (excellent for 4:2:2)
Cyberlink
Intervideo
Dscaler
Elecard
ffdshow
Blaze

Many are free.

One thing you must realize is that the use of a DVB tuner card requires considerably more effort in getting established than using a set top box but they are certainly far more versatile and less costly (if you ignore the cost of the computer). The one thing you still need a set top box for is blind scanning.

The STV0903 demod in the 7301/7500/S2+ card also does better on plain DVB-S compared to the CX24116. Unfortunately the Pansat 9200HD uses its built-in DVB-S demod for DVB-S signals so one cannot take much advantage of this fact. However the S2+ demod is used for blindscanning in "S2 mode", which finds both S and S2 signals.

The improvement offered by the newer generation demods is significantly more than switching from a DRO to a PLL LNB. This last statement does depend on comparing good quality DRO LNBs. A Norsat 8115 (DRO) should only do a tiny fraction of a dB worse than a Norsat 3115 (PLL) on high-rate DVB-S2 8PSK signals. The PLL advantage would be more for 16PSK and 32PSK, but we're not there yet.

Originally Posted by pendragon

Unfortunately the Pansat 9200HD uses its built-in DVB-S demod for DVB-S signals so one cannot take much advantage of this fact.

On the contrary, one can use the DVB-S2+ tuner (on a Pansat 9200hd) for the DVB-S signals. To demonstrate this one only needs to set up a second transponder identical to the one used for a given DBV-S signal and change only the tuner to be used in that second TP.

For instance, push MENU, INSTALLATION, SATELLITE SETUP, EDIT TP/SATELLITE, choose the satellite of interest, EDIT TP, NEW, and create a transponder identical in every respect to one used for the DVB-S signal TP and alter only the TUNER TYPE to DVB-S2.

Then push MENU, INSTALLATION, SATELLITE SETUP, ADVANCED & TP SCAN where you can switch back and forth between those two transponders to see the change in the QUALITY between the different tuners.

Of course, you need to have the antenna and polarity pointed at the satellite of interest and it has to be a live transponder.

Great observation. Based on your tests it seems Pansat set up the STV0903 demod to lock to to anything close in frequency, and perhaps SR. Very nice, although it does prevent one from deducing the actual signal parameters like was possible in the past.