I received my official letter today.

[jegrant]

Well - I appreciate seeing this letter. I'm glad it was posted. I'm glad "Dominion" sent it out. I find it interesting that they now choose to use the brand name of Dominion when communicating directly with customers, only to deliver bad news. The letter certainly attempts to make it clear (for legal reasons, I would assume) that the new "Sky Angel IPTV" is claimed to be an entirely different operation, rather than a continuation of the Dominion Sky Angel DBS platform.

I really appreciate the frank explanation of the situation. Had this information merely been posted as an open letter to subscribers on the SA* website, roughly six months ago, this forum could have avoided much of the speculation, and what was at times rather heated commentary that has filled this little section of SatelliteGuys.US.

Given the situation with Dish, however, and the apparent willingness of SA* to use legal remedies when necessary, it seems odd that SA* would not have attempted to appeal to the FCC to force E* into arbitration, rather than allowing E* to essentially price SA* out of the satellite business. It seems to me that this could certainly be perceived as behavior on the part of E* that maintains a oligopoly.



The thing that really bothers me about this, as well, is that it's obvious to anyone that SA* is very little threat to either E* or D* in the consumer satellite business, as they simply refuse to offer a great deal of the secular programming that many homes would like to buy. The only thing SA* directly competes with is the low-priced Family packages offered by other providers. And, its continued existence showed that there was room for a smaller DBS provider. I guess there's no room anymore.

[RedSavina]

You know the irony here is that I love my Tivos. Can't use 'em for IPTV or for GloryStar. And if I sever with DBS all they'll be good for is OTA broadcasts, which SA was supposed to be an alternative to. And any more even just the daily news is so full of celebrity mumbo jumbo and claims of global warming and other politically correct indoctrination that I'm not even sure I want to record that anymore.

I know it's not a TIVO, let alone the TIVO you already own, but you can get an FTA receiver with DVR capabilities. The main issue is the program guide.

I know the folks over and SatelliteAV (dba Glorystar) are working on the electronic program guide issue. The also offer a DVR receiver. Hopefully they will be able to offer a DVR receiver with EPG support for the Glorystar service in the near future.

[lumpkin666]

catkoko, I think it's interesting that you bash SkyAngel for using IPTV that is not widely available everywhere, when the similar arguments could have been said way back when Bob was proposing that everyone could have their own satellite dish.. the technology was not as widespread as it is now... just like Highspeed internet will be in another 5-10 years. You're missing the boat here on this issue..internet broadcast can already reach billions more people around the world than a single satellite hanging over the USA can... and highspeed internet is reaching everywhere very quickly due to community projects/etc bringing highspeed into a variety of previously unreachable areas.. it will be there, don't doubt that.

[dahenny]

The bottom line is VISION. Someone once said, "If the dream is big enough, the facts don't matter", meaning that Johnson Sr.'s vision was so strong, that he would have found a way to build that satellite. WHY?...because he also utilized his faith.

After reading the letter, it became obvious to me that Jr. doesn't really carry the vision of his father. Instead, he hires all of the so called experts to come in and tell him that "it can't be done".

As I see it Bob was trying to bring the gospel and TV to those in rural, often poor areas who otherwise had none. The original vision was an angel, descending and spreading to the "corners" of the earth or something along those lines. If the poor could get TV, even "Christian" They would have considered it.

That undoubtidly is the worst explanation/analogy that I've heard thus far. Statistically speaking, poorer peoples have a greater spirituality than people with means. The rich, or well off, are some of the most difficult people to reach with the gospel.

Bob's mission, among other things, was to give Christians an alternative to secular TV.

[Scroll]

I know it's not a TIVO, let alone the TIVO you already own, but you can get an FTA receiver with DVR capabilities. The main issue is the program guide.

I know the folks over and SatelliteAV (dba Glorystar) are working on the electronic program guide issue. The also offer a DVR receiver. Hopefully they will be able to offer a DVR receiver with EPG support for the Glorystar service in the near future.

Yes, I had read about some of those possibilities. There's also a post in the Tivo Community forum that offers a glimmer of hope that IPTV may be somewhat Tivo supported on S1/ S2 stbs.

Given the situation with Dish, however, and the apparent willingness of SA* to use legal remedies when necessary, it seems odd that SA* would not have attempted to appeal to the FCC to force E* into arbitration, rather than allowing E* to essentially price SA* out of the satellite business. It seems to me that this could certainly be perceived as behavior on the part of E* that maintains a oligopoly.

As I read that paragraph it sounded more like the bigger issue was with new SA ONLY subscribers getting a 1st time box. I'm not certain how much the rent on the bird played a factor but from the sounds of it the assumption was that people wouldn't pay $350 which is apparently the unsubsidized cost of a new box. But perhaps there was a bit more to it that we lowly subscribers were not privy to?


I think the FCC appeal might have been one way to go. A loosly similar argument worked for MCI to open up 3rd party long distance, after all. Plus there are other arguments that could be made. But I figure they saw the legal battle as too costly, which is why they decided it was easier to switch than fight. Still, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for Echostar. They may have every legal right to discourage SA but as a consumer I also have every legal right to my opinion - and to share that opinion - that they should have been more accomodating and that their choices caused me a financial hardship as a customer.

But as others have said Dominion has known about this for a long time and being silent until the last possible moment is troubling to me. We don't even have a firm cutoff date, only that by March 31 for certain service will be gone.


Funny that a Dish CSR hinted to me months ago as much as has now been revealed but I thought the rep was misinformed about the IPTV service. We all know level 1 CSRs are "usually" the last to know anything. Remember when Dish started charging an access fee if you didn't suscribe to other package programming? Guess that was the writing on the wall. I sent an email to SA at that time and received no response.

But if Dish knew about it and could talk about it why wouldn't Dominion? Was it that they wanted every last possible subscription fee or an 11th hour attempt to rescue the DBS option? We may never know!

[jashobeam]

I contacted Dish. As SA subscribers we will not be eligible for the deep discounts of Dish even though we never received Dish programming. All of us have a Dish customer number. The only way out is if your spouse did not have their name and Social Security number added to the SA account. I think both our names were on it. I was told the start up costs to "upgrade" and get Dish were around $300. We are most likely going with DirecTV now. It seems they have added family friendly channels to their 250 package.

[catkoko]

if you read their lovely little, enclosed brochure (page 6)this has been planned since MAY 2006! 1 1/2 YEARS

has anyone purchased a lifetime or 10 year during this time period?

the "special offer " free box, 18 month committment, is the same offered to anyone, nothing special for lifetime members

If I had wanted to make a "donation" I would have done so. I paid for a LIFETIME membership although sky angel seems to want to consider my $$$ a gift

For what its worth the FCC says to file a complaint with the FTC. At this poiint it won't change the outcome.

I guess what each now has to decide is do you walk or fight them?

[jegrant]

As I read that paragraph it sounded more like the bigger issue was with new SA ONLY subscribers getting a 1st time box. I'm not certain how much the rent on the bird played a factor but from the sounds of it the assumption was that people wouldn't pay $350 which is apparently the unsubsidized cost of a new box. But perhaps there was a bit more to it that we lowly subscribers were not privy to?

Funny that a Dish CSR hinted to me months ago as much as has now been revealed but I thought the rep was misinformed about the IPTV service. We all know level 1 CSRs are "usually" the last to know anything. Remember when Dish started charging an access fee if you didn't suscribe to other package programming? Guess that was the writing on the wall. I sent an email to SA at that time and received no response.

But if Dish knew about it and could talk about it why wouldn't Dominion? Was it that they wanted every last possible subscription fee or an 11th hour attempt to rescue the DBS option? We may never know!

From my reading of the Dominion letter above, it seems that the $350-400 did indeed refer to the cost of an unsubsidized E* receiver that new SA* customers would be required to purchase. And therefore, since SA* customers were previously allowed to purchase subsidized receivers, this represents a price increase on the part of E* in my opinion. Admittedly, no one knows how many SA* subs there are, but how many subsidized receivers could SA* customers realistically have purchased, and how many of them actually bought no DISH programming at all?

To me, I think SA* actually helped market DISH in some ways, because those who were interested in getting a satellite dish for SA*, who might not have otherwise considered a dish at all, were then much more open to buying a secular package from DISH, as it was completely integrated on the same satellite receiver and everything.

I know at least one DISH customer who is an SA* lifetimer, and because DISH had SA*, he also dumped cable TV and now buys the DISH Everything Pack, and has for years. Had DirecTV been the host to SA*, he might well have gone with DirectTV.

[catkoko]

You can go into any radio shack as well as a few others as well and buy a dish receiver for under $100! they did say $350 was for receiver and installation. People are taking sky angel at their word, unfortunately we can not do so any more.

If someone already has a dish receiver and an 18" dish I bleive all they need is a 20" dish 500 dish to receive programming via dish.

[finsrn]

The real problem I see with Sky Angel is that there aren't enough Christian people willing to pay a premium for Christian content. It simply comes down to convictions. Seems to be a problem with the church today in general. The general consensus was something like this...sure, Sky Angel sounds good, but don't expect me to give up my other 200 secular channels for it and be good and well sure that I'm not going to pay a dollar MORE for it. Perhaps this is what Mr. Johnson failed to anticipate. When it comes down to it, too many people are content to keep paying their monthly cable tithe no matter what or whom it supports.

Sky Angel was great for my family and I considered the decision to subscribe one of the best I have made. I live in a rural area and there is no way I can get the bandwidth to make the IPTV work. Not sure what I'm going to do now...