Thread: NBA 2008-09 Season

Since we're debating LeBron vs. D-Wade for MVP, let me give you a very substantial reason why I think LeBron is clearly the run away choice......

1. LeBron James is having the best season in modern NBA history.

This may seem like a preposterous statement, highly subjective without reasonable supporting evidence. But no, it is real and can be backed up, and his pursuit of history ought to be followed as this season develops. Right now, James is even performing at a higher level statistically than Michael Jordan ever did!

I credit an important statistic that is essentially an equalizer in comparing NBA players. That stat is known as PER or "Player Efficiency Rating".

PER factors in positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. Then it deducts negative plays such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. It also counts stats on a per-minute basis and factors in the pace or number of possessions per game. This is so players are not penalized for being on teams that play slower.

You can look at LeBron's stat line this season and see he's averaging 27.7 points, 6.7 rebounds and 6.7 assists. These numbers all represent a drop from last season and that may lead some to deduce he's not playing as well.

In fact, there already is a bit of a groundswell for Dwyane Wade, who is having a remarkable comeback season with the Miami Heat, to be the early Most Valuable Player favorite as he's taken over the scoring lead from James this season.

But look at the PER statistic and see just what James is doing.

Because he's shooting the best percentages of his career from the field (51 percent) and the foul line (79 percent), his steals are up and turnovers are down, all in significantly fewer minutes, James is having a monster season in terms of efficiency.

His PER is 32.82 after 36 games. What does that mean? Well, for one, he's about 10 percent better than any other player in the league. New Orleans' Chris Paul is second at just over 30. Last season, James led the NBA with a 29.23 PER, which was still one of the best ever.

The highest rating of all time belongs to Jordan, who had a 31.71 PER in 1987-88. PER stats go back to 1973-74, when stats like offensive rebounds, steals and blocks were first kept.



Sure, these are just numbers and cannot account for overall defense, leadership ability, and intensity. But nobody is questioning James on any of those these days, either.

........I rest my case my friend. As myself and 20,000+ fans chanted last Friday night at Quicken Loans Arena: "M-V.-P" ...."M-V-P" ....."M-V-P"!!!!

Two questions...

1. Do you think the Cavs would trade Lebron for Wade even up?

2. Do you think the Heat would trade Wade for Lebron even up?

Take contracts, etc., out of the equation and assume the teams are only trying to do their best to win this year and next year.

I think it's pretty clear.


Sandra

Originally Posted by HD MM

Since we're debating LeBron vs. D-Wade for MVP, let me give you a very substantial reason why I think LeBron is clearly the run away choice......

1. LeBron James is having the best season in modern NBA history.

This may seem like a preposterous statement, highly subjective without reasonable supporting evidence. But no, it is real and can be backed up, and his pursuit of history ought to be followed as this season develops. Right now, James is even performing at a higher level statistically than Michael Jordan ever did!

I credit an important statistic that is essentially an equalizer in comparing NBA players. That stat is known as PER or "Player Efficiency Rating".

PER factors in positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. Then it deducts negative plays such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. It also counts stats on a per-minute basis and factors in the pace or number of possessions per game. This is so players are not penalized for being on teams that play slower.

You can look at LeBron's stat line this season and see he's averaging 27.7 points, 6.7 rebounds and 6.7 assists. These numbers all represent a drop from last season and that may lead some to deduce he's not playing as well.

In fact, there already is a bit of a groundswell for Dwyane Wade, who is having a remarkable comeback season with the Miami Heat, to be the early Most Valuable Player favorite as he's taken over the scoring lead from James this season.

But look at the PER statistic and see just what James is doing.

Because he's shooting the best percentages of his career from the field (51 percent) and the foul line (79 percent), his steals are up and turnovers are down, all in significantly fewer minutes, James is having a monster season in terms of efficiency.

His PER is 32.82 after 36 games. What does that mean? Well, for one, he's about 10 percent better than any other player in the league. New Orleans' Chris Paul is second at just over 30. Last season, James led the NBA with a 29.23 PER, which was still one of the best ever.

The highest rating of all time belongs to Jordan, who had a 31.71 PER in 1987-88. PER stats go back to 1973-74, when stats like offensive rebounds, steals and blocks were first kept.

Sure, these are just numbers and cannot account for overall defense, leadership ability, and intensity. But nobody is questioning James on any of those these days, either.

........I rest my case my friend. As myself and 20,000+ fans chanted last Friday night at Quicken Loans Arena: "M-V.-P" ...."M-V-P" ....."M-V-P"!!!!

I agree, to THIS POINT, that LeBron is the MVP.

But to label him "clearly the run away choice" is a bit hyperbolic, IMO.

Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce are all in the rear view mirror.

Originally Posted by SandraC

Two questions...

1. Do you think the Cavs would trade Lebron for Wade even up?

2. Do you think the Heat would trade Wade for Lebron even up?

Take contracts, etc., out of the equation and assume the teams are only trying to do their best to win this year and next year.

I think it's pretty clear.


Sandra

Well stated.

Originally Posted by HD MM

You seriously don't remember the Cavs prior to LeBron?

Yes....but that was then....we are talking NOW....right NOW...the Cavs would have a better than 50-50 chance of making the playoffs. NOW, if the Heat do NOT have Wade...they MAY win 20 games.

...and "a good player...even a great player"??!! Seriously....SERIOUSLY??!! He is EASILY one of the TOP 3 players IN THE WORLD. The order of WHO is best depends on WHO YOU LIKE...or who you DON'T LIKE.

I hate to interrupt this fascinating D-Wade cs. LBJ discussion, but...

Detroit not looking so hot- 3 losses in their last 4 games.

IMO, Pistons are in trouble- they have no chance to catch Cleveland for the division title. They may have to do something they'r not used to in the playoffs- play as the road team.

Pistons are only a half-game ahead of Atlanta for fourth- IMO, they looking like a team that is one-and-done.

Originally Posted by salsadancer7

...and "a good player...even a great player"??!! Seriously....SERIOUSLY??!! He is EASILY one of the TOP 3 players IN THE WORLD. The order of WHO is best depends on WHO YOU LIKE...or who you DON'T LIKE.

Wade is in the discussion, but is not EASILY one of the top three players in the world. It's partly because of his height.

There are a lot of others who are also part of that discussion. Wade is just one of them.

Again...can the Cavs win the championship right now? Yes.

Trade Lebron for Wade and can Wade lead the Cavs to the championship? No way.

Same goes for Kobe Bryant, so Wade is third at best...he's in the discussion for third, anyway.


Sandra

Originally Posted by SabresRule

Pistons are only a half-game ahead of Atlanta for fourth- IMO, they looking like a team that is one-and-done.

No surprise, that's their current point guard's M.O.


Sandra

Originally Posted by HD MM

Since we're debating LeBron vs. D-Wade for MVP, let me give you a very substantial reason why I think LeBron is clearly the run away choice......

1. LeBron James is having the best season in modern NBA history.

According to Lebron James. Have him win the NBA championship, win Defensive Player of the Year, lead his team to the Best record in the NBA AND win NBA Finals MVP...and then come talk to me. Until then, he is have a GREAT year....

This may seem like a preposterous statement, highly subjective without reasonable supporting evidence. But no, it is real and can be backed up, and his pursuit of history ought to be followed as this season develops. Right now, James is even performing at a higher level statistically than Michael Jordan ever did!

Read my 1st answer....

I credit an important statistic that is essentially an equalizer in comparing NBA players. That stat is known as PER or "Player Efficiency Rating".

PER factors in positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. Then it deducts negative plays such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. It also counts stats on a per-minute basis and factors in the pace or number of possessions per game. This is so players are not penalized for being on teams that play slower.

You can look at LeBron's stat line this season and see he's averaging 27.7 points, 6.7 rebounds and 6.7 assists. These numbers all represent a drop from last season and that may lead some to deduce he's not playing as well.

In fact, there already is a bit of a groundswell for Dwyane Wade, who is having a remarkable comeback season with the Miami Heat, to be the early Most Valuable Player favorite as he's taken over the scoring lead from James this season.

But look at the PER statistic and see just what James is doing.

Because he's shooting the best percentages of his career from the field (51 percent) and the foul line (79 percent), his steals are up and turnovers are down, all in significantly fewer minutes, James is having a monster season in terms of efficiency.

His PER is 32.82 after 36 games. What does that mean? Well, for one, he's about 10 percent better than any other player in the league. New Orleans' Chris Paul is second at just over 30. Last season, James led the NBA with a 29.23 PER, which was still one of the best ever.

The highest rating of all time belongs to Jordan, who had a 31.71 PER in 1987-88. PER stats go back to 1973-74, when stats like offensive rebounds, steals and blocks were first kept.

Sure, these are just numbers and cannot account for overall defense, leadership ability, and intensity. But nobody is questioning James on any of those these days, either.

........I rest my case my friend. As myself and 20,000+ fans chanted last Friday night at Quicken Loans Arena: "M-V.-P" ...."M-V-P" ....."M-V-P"!!!!

...Oh and by the way, when the Heat beat the Lakers a few weeks back in Miami...we had just as many people saying the same thing....

And I am sure, the same could be said about Pierce in Boston and a few in other areas as well with their local stud. So people chanting what the HOME TEAM thinks means ABOSLUTLEY NOTHING....I suppose if they chanted YOUR NAME followed by the phrase...."is a tool"...does that mean it's true?