Thread: Newb ???

Originally Posted by bhelms

Being a EE and bench tech by training and experience, I agree with your observations with one exception, explained below, actually one you observed as well. In general, a unit that has made it past the "infant mortality" stage, with or without help, is very likely to live a long, trouble-free life after that. In a sense, the "original owner" has given the unit a good burn-in up to the trouble point, and probably exercised many if not most of the options and features as well. I mentioned in another post in this subforum that I seriously considered a returned 805 at CC that was listed at $750 and could probably be had for about $500, that is until I learned it was thought to have a "mystery problem", and that's where my skepticism/experience kicks-in!

In my present line of work I am responsible for tracking data from repair centers that handle our somewhat sophisticated multimedia delivery platforms and distribution equipment. It is amazing how many are entered into the database as "NTFs" !! To be sure a fair percentage are there by error on the customers' parts, for a variety of issues that are fundamentally that they don't understand how the units should operate. But to be sure - and this is where my bench experience comes into play - there is a finite number of units in that group that truly DO have problems that are intermittent or only appear under certain operating conditions or in specific combinations of interfaces many of which cannot be duplicated on the bench. The more complex the system, the more likely such problems are. So the tech sets them up, runs them for a bit, doesn't detect any problems, "returns them to spec.", and sends them back out unrepaired.

There is some probabability that can happen with any kind of equipment including the A/V stuff of which we're so all so fond! I'm still quite willing to take my chances as long as I can return the unit for a full refund/exchange if something like that happens. In my experience it's only happened twice, both with units purchased from Sears. But otherwise my experience with "second chance" equipment has also been excellent! And I agree, "new" stuff should be so reliable! If one can look past some wear and tear, perhaps a missing box or accessory, the recycled equipment pool is a great place to save some money and gain a long-term loyal "servant" as well!

Good luck with yours, but like you I'm almost certain you won't have any problems...!

Yeah, I'm a EE as well, with 30+ years experience in product development, mostly electronic instruments for HP/Agilent. I'm currently doing embedded firmware for the electrical power distribution system for the new Boeing 787.

I've also done my time on reliability tracking and second level customer support. We all would rotate through these jobs occassionally and the experience was very valuable when we went back into the design lab.

Actually, I helped institute a three strikes policy for VXI Instrument cards where we tracked repair history on individual cards. We would pull a card out of rotation after the third NTF on the thoery that it was likely marginal in field systems, although it would pass in the lab. You can get into situations where stuff fails because the interfaces are at opposite ends of the margins, although everything is within specs. However you need to be careful in complex systems, as techs generally r&r units until it works, and you need to expect NTFs in situations like that. So you look at what else is coming back as well and what problems were found.

As far as how this applies to the average consumer stuff, we both agree that refurb is probably more reliable than new stock. I am not talking about unchecked stuff on the BB return 'bargain' counter. That stuff is zombie stock and is never worth it after factoring in the missing parts, unknown problems, and 'all sales final' nature.

At any rate, I'm preaching to the choir here, and nobody else cares, so I'll quit.