Thread: Two subs vs one

I currently have a 12" Klispch sub-12, but was considering a good deal on two energy esw-8's.

The Sub-12 is rated to 24hz and the 8's to 36, but I wonder if having two spread out will sound better?

Originally Posted by elwaylite

The Sub-12 is rated to 24hz and the 8's to 36, but I wonder if having two spread out will sound better?

You generally don't "hear" subs -- you feel them.

Conventional subwoofer wisdom holds that more drivers only makes the sound louder, not better.

Consider adding some of these for more umpf ...
Shakers

Originally Posted by harshness

You generally don't "hear" subs -- you feel them.

Conventional subwoofer wisdom holds that more drivers only makes the sound louder, not better.

If you aren't hearing the sub, you have SUBSTANTIAL hearing loss, your quotation notwithstanding. No pun intended, BTW.

I did some more reading and you have to look at decibels. The two 8s are only 100 decibels, while the 12 is 117. Simple decision.

Originally Posted by raoul5788

If you aren't hearing the sub, you have SUBSTANTIAL hearing loss, your quotation notwithstanding. No pun intended, BTW.

I'd say it was the other way around. If you are HEARING the sub, it is running at too high a cutoff frequency, or you are using the sub to extend some wussy little satellite speakers that don't have bass. There is a place for satellite/sub systems, but I don't consider that a true subwoofer. It is a woofer, and usually I can tell exactly where the sound is coming from.

A good sub is meant to work below 60 Hz and is meant to be felt, not heard.

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I currently have a 12" Klispch sub-12, but was considering a good deal on two energy esw-8's.

The Sub-12 is rated to 24hz and the 8's to 36, but I wonder if having two spread out will sound better?

Multiple subs are used to flatten the frequency response over a larger area. If that is your goal get another sub identical to your existing one. If you go with two of those 8 inch subs you will lose the output you currently have in the 24hz to 36hz range. So to me you are taking a step backwards.

Originally Posted by jayn_j

I'd say it was the other way around. If you are HEARING the sub, it is running at too high a cutoff frequency, or you are using the sub to extend some wussy little satellite speakers that don't have bass. There is a place for satellite/sub systems, but I don't consider that a true subwoofer. It is a woofer, and usually I can tell exactly where the sound is coming from.

A good sub is meant to work below 60 Hz and is meant to be felt, not heard.

I'd say you should hear the frequencies the sub is producing, but not be able to localize them or know they are coming from the sub. Subs should blend with the other speakers such that you don't even know you have subs, it sounds as though bass is coming from your other speakers.

Originally Posted by primetimeguy

I'd say you should hear the frequencies the sub is producing, but not be able to localize them or know they are coming from the sub. Subs should blend with the other speakers such that you don't even know you have subs, it sounds as though bass is coming from your other speakers.

We can probably get into audio geek territory pretty quickly. I guess it depends on the system you have put together. My opinion is that the system you describe is one where the sub is used to extend the bass of small bookshelf speakers. The main speakers are designed to drop off around 100 Hz or so, and the sub is used to fill in the bass below that. The thoery is that bass is non-directional to the human ear and you can't locate the source. Unfortunately for me, I am able to localize bass down to 60-80Hz, so I hear this sort of sub kick in and immediately notice where it is coming from. It is annoying to me to hear a motor start up on the left speaker and hear the lower frequency component comin right of center.

I'm not trying to knock satellite/sub systems in particular. They work in a lot of situations. I have one myself in my family room. We don't do critical viewing or listening up there, and keeping the speakers small was a consideration. However, down in the theater, I find I much prefer full range main speakers. I run Klipsch KG-4s down there with a 10" woofer and clean bass down to about 50 Hz. ON that system, I fill in the sub duties with a Velodyne RF-12a, which has its own 1200 W amp. I set the cutoff at the receiver and sub lower, to mostly give a boost below 50 Hz. The effect on my system is smooth bass at frequencies you generally hear coming from the main speakers, and sounds you feel coming from the sub. When the sub kicks in, it mostly shows up as a pressure in your chest.

I was trying to differentiate between the two types of system philosophy in my earlier post, but didn't do a very good job. My understanding is that Jason/Elway has a system closer to mine, as he upgraded main speakers a few months ago, so my comments were directed that way. Jason, I am not a big fan of dual subs, unless you are very careful on placement and matching. It doesn't seem to make much difference in smaller rooms. In larger rooms, it can improve sound by lowering the reflection time from the far wall. Most people who do it recommend placing the subs in the middle of the front and back walls, and place them some distance from the wall. If you look at this picture of my HT setup, you can see that my sub is about 18" off the screen wall. The room is only 13x20' and I don't feel it will help much to add the second sub though.