Thread: Pioneer steps up with 1.3a compatiblity!

Teachsac and I live in the same town but I'm on the poorer side of the tracks as the song goes. Just kidding. Anyway, I'm cheap.

I'm looking at a budget of $700 -$900 to replace my old Pioneer 1014 which just started going bananas turning on and off at will etc. So rather than fix this $300 AV I thought I'd look for something now.

Since I'm cheap, I'm looking for an AV that will provide all the available and near future audio features of HDDVD ( I have the first one out) and my PS3 BU playback. It looks like both of these will do that and nothing now available from Pioneer or Yamaha will.

What are the short comings of the Onkyo to a Demon or top model Pioneer to make them worth spending $1M to $2M on them.

I have a bookshelf Klipsch Cinema 8 System with 2 extra bookshelf speakers making it a 7.1 setup.

Originally Posted by swade

Teachsac and I live in the same town but I'm on the poorer side of the tracks as the song goes. Just kidding. Anyway, I'm cheap.

I'm looking at a budget of $700 -$900 to replace my old Pioneer 1014 which just started going bananas turning on and off at will etc. So rather than fix this $300 AV I thought I'd look for something now.

Since I'm cheap, I'm looking for an AV that will provide all the available and near future audio features of HDDVD ( I have the first one out) and my PS3 BU playback. It looks like both of these will do that and nothing now available from Pioneer or Yamaha will.

What are the short comings of the Onkyo to a Demon or top model Pioneer to make them worth spending $1M to $2M on them.

I have a bookshelf Klipsch Cinema 8 System with 2 extra bookshelf speakers making it a 7.1 setup.

Hola Bud

For $599 the Onkyo TX-SR605 looks like a pretty decent buy and future proof. HAven't heard one, though. At one point in time decades ago, Onkyo used to produce some top of the line components. Fry's should have them when they do come out.

S~

Originally Posted by JoeSp

Then explain why manufacturer's are coming out with AVRs that decode these codecs?

One scenario: purists audiophiles don't give a rats ass about all the "additional" features on the disks and want to watch just the movie.

Originally Posted by JoeSp

You really think a player will give you the control over the audio codec as well as an AVR?

Are you convinced it won't?

Originally Posted by JoeSp

The idea of the players not being able to pass the native signals to the AVR comes from the possiblity of the PS3 not being able to do that (maybe)..

Huh? The "decoding and mixing in the player" issue is format agnostic - it applies to both BD and HD.

Originally Posted by JoeSp

As a matter of fact no article has stated without a doubt (facts that prove otherwise) that the PS3 cannot pass native signals..

It might. But then you would have to decode, mix and encode again to pass over HDMI digitally.
You can't mix unless decoded. You can't send over HDMI unless encoded.
Did you look at the DTS site?

Originally Posted by JoeSp

When these new AVRs come out we all might be pleasantly surprised.

Surprised by what? What isn't sent to the AVR can't be decoded by it - can we agree on that?

Diogen

Did they just forget to mention it or have the gone an removed WMA-HD support? Which according to some is the best out there right now

WMA-Pro (multichannel WMA) is not mandatory is either of the hidef formats.
It is optional for a secondary video stream only (PiP).

What isn't mandatory rarely gets implemented in mainstream products.

The Elite series of the Pioneer AVRs can decode WMA-Pro (received over SPDIF) for years, since the first WMV-HD disks.

When playing HD DVD on XBox360 using its add-on, the console can encode the soundtrack into WMA-Pro (using the most recent update).
In case the original track is lossless, this could be the best way of digitally transferring the sound to your AVR.

Purists would still insist on avoiding D-A-D transcoding.

Diogen.

I've been getting an edumacation in HDMI receivers the past couple of weeks, since I bought a PS3 and need to upgrade to a receiver with HDMI audio so I can enjoy those PCM tracks on Blu-ray.

One problem is my HDTV only has DVI for digital input. The set is less than 3 years old, I'm really happy with it and not upgrading for a while. The DVI connection is HDCP compliant, my HD DVD & PS3 are both satisfied with it.

My first try was a Sony STR-DG710, a new line of receivers with 710,810 & 910 models. Not HDMI 1.3, but the specs say all 3 models support 1080p video & multi-channel HDMI audio. I picked up a 710 from Best Buy on sale for $255. I couldn't get HDMI audio to work at all, and then I notice a page in the manual say says "We do not recommend the use of an HDMI to DVI conversion cable. Doing so may result in the video and or audio not working properly".

The video was fine, just no audio. I dig through he manual and find the option to turn off audio for the HDMI out. Still no go. So, I hook the PS3 up via component for display, and I get audio! OK, I pop in "Crank" and select the PCM track - I only get 2 channel stereo, the same as I was with digital optical on my old receiever! So I got into the PS3 menu and find the "automatic" setting for HDMI audio to query the receiver. Yep, it comes back saying the device can accept DTS & DD in 5.1, but only only 2 channel PCM. I dig through the manual and find the setting to set decoding priority from "automatic" to PCM only. I query with the PS3 again - now the DTS & DD are gone, but still only 2 channel PCM.

The POS went back to BB the next day, and I recommend avoiding these Sony receivers like the plague.

While I plan on going with the Onkyo 605 for future proofing with HDMI 1.3 & DTS HD-MA decoding, but I bought a 604 from CC to "try out" and make sure it works with my DVI. I don't normally abuse the chain store's 30 return policy, but disparate times call for disparate measures.

OK, Onkyo does it right - by default the audio is off on for HDMI output, and it works fine with my DVI connection. I've had it for a few days now, and it works perfectly with my HD DVD & PS3 players on HDMI, and the multi-channel PCM rocks. But one disappointment is the volume level. My "old" receiver is a 6 yr. Sony 5.1 channel, with 100 watts per channel. The Onkyo 604 is 90 watts oer channel, 7.1 channel, but I'm only using 5.1 speakers. The power level between 100 & 90 watts per channel should only be 10%, right? Well, on my old Sony I usually had the volume level around 50%; 65% was rockin' the house. On the Onkyo, I have to crank it up to 70 to 80% volume to have decent volume. On the TrueHD audio on the Letters from Iwa Jima HD DVD, and maxed it out at 100% and it was just adequate. If I ever cranked my old Sony up to 100% I'd have had shattered windows and broken speakers.

So, now I'm thinking I need to go with an Onkyo 675 or 805 to get 100 - 110 watts per channel. Is it the HDMI audio the results in such lower volume levels, or are Onkyo receivers somehow less powerful?

EDIT: I figured it out. I had just run the "auto-configuration" with the included microphone. It did a nice job, but in digging through the manual I decided to dig into the "Advanced Settings". The volume level of each speaker can be set from -15db to +15db. Auto-configuration had set every speaker from -5 to -10db! Using the test tones, I increased the speakers from +5 to +12db. Oh yeah, now I get volume!

Is there a setting in the Onkyo that allows for differant ohms settings for your speakers? If you have it set to low (4 when it should be 8) that might explain your low volume output.

Originally Posted by CochiseGuy

The power level between 100 & 90 watts per channel should only be 10%, right?

While the voltage difference should be about 10%, the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) difference is about 3%.

Make sure that the receiver didn't find its way into "night mode".

Originally Posted by JoeSp

Is there a setting in the Onkyo that allows for differant ohms settings for your speakers? If you have it set to low (4 when it should be 8) that might explain your low volume output.

Yes, there is a menu to select speaker ohms settings. By default, it is set to 8 ohms, which matches my speakers.

Originally Posted by harshness

While the voltage difference should be about 10%, the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) difference is about 3%.

Make sure that the receiver didn't find its way into "night mode".

Nope, it was the "auto setup" with included microphone that set each speaker down from -5 to -10 db. When I manually set each speaker from +5 to +10db using test tones, it pretty much matches up with my old 100 watt receiver - 55% volume is plenty, 65% is rocking the house.

I decided to stick with the Onkyo 604; I found it online for just over $300. I think the HDMI 1.3 on the 605+ models is a bunch of hype for $200+ more.