RG59/U Cable

strak82 · Jan 8, 2011

Hey,

You guys have all been really helpful with my last forum post. My new home is prewired with RG59/U to the outside for a satellite (the previous owner had a Dish 500) I know, it's cheaper cable and not sufficient, I wouldn't have installed it myself, but it was here when I moved in, so I'm stuck with it. Anyway rewiring is going to be a really expensive deal and I was just curious as to whether or not the RG59/U will work, at least temporally, for a Dish 1000.4 setup to a Dish 222k receiver (I guess it worked for the Dish 500 system they had). Anyway please don't flame me, I know it's crappy cable, it's cheap and that I should go rewire right away, etc etc, but I just want to know if it will work for now. Thanks again guys.

boba · Jan 8, 2011

Yes it will work for now. How well and how long only time will tell. Rg59 comes in different qualities just like RG6 does and length is a big factor with RG59 you haven't provided either and probably can't.

dishcomm · Jan 8, 2011

strak82 said:
Hey,

You guys have all been really helpful with my last forum post. My new home is prewired with RG59/U to the outside for a satellite (the previous owner had a Dish 500) I know, it's cheaper cable and not sufficient, I wouldn't have installed it myself, but it was here when I moved in, so I'm stuck with it. Anyway rewiring is going to be a really expensive deal and I was just curious as to whether or not the RG59/U will work, at least temporally, for a Dish 1000.4 setup to a Dish 222k receiver (I guess it worked for the Dish 500 system they had). Anyway please don't flame me, I know it's crappy cable, it's cheap and that I should go rewire right away, etc etc, but I just want to know if it will work for now. Thanks again guys.

Save yourself the headaches and run new RG-6.....
It isn't all that expensive...
Here's the deal. Order up a Dish Mover install. The tech will come gnash his teeth and install new RG-6 cabling and it won't cost you a dime.
Sucks sideways for the tech if the house is built funky, but like they always told us, "it is what it is"...
If you're a good American, you'll help out the tech immensely by moving all furniture out of his way. If the attic must be accessed, make sure you move all belongings away from the work areas. Same goes for the basement if applicable. Garage as well.

TheKrell · Jan 8, 2011

It may work; it may not. I was running RG59 for several years from my DishPro switch in the attic about 30' to a wall plate, 2 barrels, and 2 shorter segments of RG6. Surprised it worked for bandstacked signals, but it did. The Dish 1000.4 is also bandstacked. If your previous owner was running legacy LNBs on his D500, this uses half the bandwidth as DishPro gear. Good luck!

dish5150 · Jan 8, 2011

dishcomm said:
Save yourself the headaches and run new RG-6.....
It isn't all that expensive...
Here's the deal. Order up a Dish Mover install. The tech will come gnash his teeth and install new RG-6 cabling and it won't cost you a dime.
Sucks sideways for the tech if the house is built funky, but like they always told us, "it is what it is"...
If you're a good American, you'll help out the tech immensely by moving all furniture out of his way. If the attic must be accessed, make sure you move all belongings away from the work areas. Same goes for the basement if applicable. Garage as well.

technically the customer HAS to move all their furniture beforehand, we're not furniture movers. most of the time i will move customer's furniture, especially if it's an old lady. However, if they seem like a (you know what) I'm not touching crap and rescheduling the job because 9 out of 10 times those guys call to claim damage to get something for free (the most pos scumbag type people out there). moral of the story, be kind to the tech and he will return the favor. customers are always required to move furniture, even the tv.

edit- back to the op's question, you can have tv 2 run off the 59 since tv 2 is rf (radio frequency). rg59 for the tv 1 is asking for problems. sat is different than cable where low voltage is sent thru the cable from the receiver to power the lnb.

teh_duke · Jan 8, 2011

dishcomm said:
Save yourself the headaches and run new RG-6.....
If you're a good American, you'll help out the tech immensely by moving all furniture out of his way. If the attic must be accessed, make sure you move all belongings away from the work areas. Same goes for the basement if applicable. Garage as well.

And tip your tech...

I've used RG59 many times. As long as the total length of the wire that is 59 is under 80' then it should hold the signal just fine. Just remember that walls can add up to 12' of length to a cable. Meaning, going up the wall outside, and then down the wall to the jack, you have 24' already. If you travel a floor, you added another 12'. So if you have a two story house, you have 12' + 12' just to get into the attic, and 12' + 12' to get into the living room wall, plus add 25'-50' to get from one wall to the other (this is if the living room isn't on the other side of the outside wall the cable comes out at.

kjlued · Jan 9, 2011

I don't know about Dish techs but Direct Techs are not required to run new cables for RG59 prewired homes.
That being said, I have used RG59 with both D* SWM and MRV successfully (which is a very sensitive system).

Now, what you could do to insure the tech runs new lines is cut all the old ones flush at the entry point.
However, this could be two edged if the room where you want the cable ran is some place he can not get a cable too.

Best way to do it is just leave what is there and offer the tech some money if he runs all new lines and does a good job of it.
Tell him you want all "home runs" where all the cables converge back to a single point.
This way it will be able to handle all future systems in case you change.

johnwadams · Jan 9, 2011

Running a 612 on RG 59 with no problem. I have a 2 story house and a new run inside the wall would be a real pain if not impossible.
I did pull a new run of RG 6 for a 722 since that box was in an easy location to get at. Mt RG 59 is about a 70' run.

dvrexpander · Jan 9, 2011

Yes, move furniture but I can tell you this right now, if I was the tech that rolled up to see this and there wasn't a easy way to run new wire to the location and you expected me to wall fish and whatever else I'd say no go... for one I'm most likely going to lose money spending all the extra time doing all that if I do switch it out, or if I don't I risk you (the customer) letting a inspector in thus seeing what was used and I fail a QAS regardless what I wrote on the paperwork or what you (the customer) signed off on...why? Well the inspectors are aholes and our offices are greedy bunch of losers.

Yep..this job sounds like a disaster waiting to happen!

DishSubLA · Jan 9, 2011

kjlued said:
I don't know about Dish techs but Direct Techs are not required to run new cables for RG59 prewired homes.
That being said, I have used RG59 with both D* SWM and MRV successfully (which is a very sensitive system).

Now, what you could do to insure the tech runs new lines is cut all the old ones flush at the entry point.
However, this could be two edged if the room where you want the cable ran is some place he can not get a cable too.

Best way to do it is just leave what is there and offer the tech some money if he runs all new lines and does a good job of it.
Tell him you want all "home runs" where all the cables converge back to a single point.
This way it will be able to handle all future systems in case you change.

I can't find it now, but I do remember a Dish notice that a tech can test the installed cable in a home, and if it works (even RG59), they can use it and not have to install new RG6. This did apply to DishPro, as well. It was some years ago. Of course, the preference is always RG6 whenever possible.

I can add that I am now over 10 years on RG59--from switches to boxes--with all DishPro equipment with no issues. The cable company installed the last RG59 because the old ones were leaking signal the digital channels (only 3 we had then) were pixalating. It is under the house, but they must have installed superior RG59 at their cost.

Haysoos · Jan 9, 2011

Nope, it is required to replace any 59 cable between the dish and the receiver. Backfeeds are fine to use 59, but at least according to our Certified Quality Job Aid that is supposed to be replaced too.

I'm with DVRExpander, I wouldn't be doing any wall fishes unless they were extremely easy. I'll wrap and run.

kjlued · Jan 10, 2011

Sucks for you guys.
They let us slide with RG59 even if it isn't pre-wired.

TimberWolf · Jan 10, 2011

If the main line to the rec can be replaced in a reasonable amount of time, the installer will, especially if you are willing to help.

There are some lines that simply cannot be replaced without exterior reruns and new entry points. Don't even worry about the line to TV2, that will run off just about anything.

DishSubLA · Jan 10, 2011

OK, it makes sense that about replacing RG59 and Dish requiring RG6. Of course, I bet there a millions of lazy contractor installs who went ahead and used existing RG59, such as my install. The guy just didn't want to hassle it at all.

jimdandyvi · Jan 11, 2011

Using RG 6 won't overcome the problems caused by poor craftsmanship.

Damage caused by pounding cable clamps to tight or using stables, small radius bends, splices and in my opinion most importantly not using top quality connecdtors and/or installing them correctly will negate any advantages gained from rerunning properly installed RG 59 with RG 6. For long cable runs using RG 6 or RG 11 is much more important.

All things being equal I would love all my runs to be with quad shield RG 6 with Digicon or equivalent connectors. In fact my installation has RG 6 from the dish to the switch and then the existing 66% braid RG 59 was run to both receivers. Digicon F connectors were used everywhere.

When I was working for the cable company the first thing a tech did when he was called out on service call for poor pictures was to replace the connectors. There was even a bounty for every whip they confiscated from a customer that had those ever handy push on F fittings.

If your pictures are good then what type of cable was used isn't a big issue. Worry about the connectors more than the cable.

Jim

dish5150 · Jan 11, 2011

DishSubLA said:
OK, it makes sense that about replacing RG59 and Dish requiring RG6. Of course, I bet there a millions of lazy contractor installs who went ahead and used existing RG59, such as my install. The guy just didn't want to hassle it at all.

Yep, rule of thumb most subcontractors don't do good work (no matter who they work for, dish, directv, comcast etc). They're required to buy their own material and get paid per job so they will do the least amount of work as possible and use the least amount of material. I hate how dish uses them, they think they save money but in the long run an in house tech has to go out and redo the whole job costing more money. Not to mention customers bad mouth bad installs and the first impression is the lasting impression. Never let a 3rd party subcontractor into your house, reschedule if you have to, in the long run it will save you tons of greif!

dish5150 · Jan 11, 2011

jimdandyvi said:
Using RG 6 won't overcome the problems caused by poor craftsmanship.

Damage caused by pounding cable clamps to tight or using stables, small radius bends, splices and in my opinion most importantly not using top quality connecdtors and/or installing them correctly will negate any advantages gained from rerunning properly installed RG 59 with RG 6. For long cable runs using RG 6 or RG 11 is much more important.

All things being equal I would love all my runs to be with quad shield RG 6 with Digicon or equivalent connectors. In fact my installation has RG 6 from the dish to the switch and then the existing 66% braid RG 59 was run to both receivers. Digicon F connectors were used everywhere.

When I was working for the cable company the first thing a tech did when he was called out on service call for poor pictures was to replace the connectors. There was even a bounty for every whip they confiscated from a customer that had those ever handy push on F fittings.

If your pictures are good then what type of cable was used isn't a big issue. Worry about the connectors more than the cable.

Jim

You're wrong Jim, I too worked for a cable co. As I mentioned before, cable and sat are completely different systems, rg59 and rg6 make a huge difference in satellite, we don't use RF like cable. Sat uses low voltage to power the lnb, rg59 will burn out. I've been to tc's where the customer swore up and down his rg59 was fine, replaced all the fittings, diplexer, lnb, etc. I had to run a hot drop from the lnb with rg6 to the reciever to prove my point. Rg59 can work but it will not last, that's the bottom line.

jckm78 · Jan 11, 2011

dish5150 said:
Yep, rule of thumb most subcontractors don't do good work (no matter who they work for, dish, directv, comcast etc). They're required to buy their own material and get paid per job so they will do the least amount of work as possible and use the least amount of material. I hate how dish uses them, they think they save money but in the long run an in house tech has to go out and redo the whole job costing more money. Not to mention customers bad mouth bad installs and the first impression is the lasting impression. Never let a 3rd party subcontractor into your house, reschedule if you have to, in the long run it will save you tons of greif!

I resent this statement!

Frank7004 · Jan 11, 2011

He said most...not all. Unfortunally, I agree.

jckm78 · Jan 12, 2011

Frank7004 said:
He said most...not all. Unfortunally, I agree.

actually, I'm in-house. I used to be a sub. When I was a sub, I saw alot of sh!tty jobs that is done by in-house too. Probably most in-house do a good job,but the bad ones cause the most TC or repeat calls. The jobs that are done right, you never see because it never need fixing. It holds true for subs and in-house. When I went to in-house, the in-house tech always complain about redoing a subs job. When I'm a sub, the subs complain about in-house tech's job too.

I guess some offending sub techs reason is more job more money, so they take short cuts.
and some offending in-house techs reason is more job more bonus money and better stack rank, so they take short cuts.

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