USALS on Openbox S9

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cyberham

cyberham

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jun 16, 2010
4,932
3,511
Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia
USALS used to work well on my S9. It doesn't work at all anymore. However I always use diseqc commands to move the dish anyway so USALS not working doesn't really matter. The dish is exactly on the arc and the motor automatically turns to all receivable satellites from 15W through 121W.

Since it's a rainy day, I thought I would explore why USALS no longer works. I don't want to mess up my manually stored positions, but it would be nice for USALS to work so I could hunt for new satellites since I now have a better LNB installed. I have my exact latitude and longitude entered in the S9.

It vaguely seems that in past I could get either USALS to work, or diseqc aiming to work, but not both at the same time. I've wondered if this was an S9 firmware bug.

Where should I begin to troubleshoot USALS?
 
I haven't had a SG-2100 motor for over 5 years, but when I had one, I always had USALS problems with it. It worked fine with Diseqc 1.2, so that's how I used it. The manual on the motor DID NOT claim USALS compliance, and I have always suspected that THAT was the simple answer. First thing I'd do is check your motor manual or motor box to see if your motor is supposed to work with USALS. Perhaps yours is an older production model, and just doesn't have the interface logic for being a reliable USALS performer. I have never had a USALS problem, except with that SG-2100 motor .
:)
 
Remember that there are SG2100 motors sold by the same distributor, but manufactured by different factories. seems that some of these motors have had a great track record, but others have had tons of issues.

For the record: We have several SG2100 motors on the roof of our warehouse installed for 8+ years that operate flawlessly on USALS.
 
Referring to the original box and manual, I see no mention of USALS at all. The box says: "Specially Designed for Receiver with DiSEqC 1.2". Even the manual title is "DiSEqC 1.2 Motorized H-H Motor". Other than talking about 1.2 in the manual, the only reference to an alternate moving method is to use GAAPS (Global Automatic Antenna Position System) with reference to a GAAPS calculator on a web page. I notice using this calculator calculates the wrong azimuth values which doesn't raise confidence. Perhaps this motor doesn't support USALS. Though since it did work at one time, I now suspect that using 1.2 commands may overwrite USALS values (somewhere) and vice versa. That seems to have always happened so I couldn't get both to work at the same time.
 
My suspicion is that IF you move your dish to True south, re-initialize the motor , Power cycle the receiver, you may have SOME success with USALS. I believe that I even had to restore defaults on my Mercury II, at the time, to get USALS working again on my now-departed SG2100 .
 
Yes, I've done that in past. I removed the dish reflector so I could precisely see the motor dial, physically zeroed the motor, then reset the motor using a paper clip (standard tool in my toolbox) inserted in a small hole in the motor to press the reset button. After restarting the receiver, then USALS seemed to work. But as I slowly began to set up the 1.2 positions hoping to have both systems functional, I would lose the USALS settings. I went through this whole process a couple of times. I'm going to leave well enough alone and stick with 1.2.
 
I lost the usals accuracy on my Openbox and I reset everything and it worked again. I can't figure out how to setup the diseqc settings with it however. I would try resetting the firmware on the box if it is not too big of a hassle. Maybe the memory just needs to be reset in the box.
 
cyberham said:
Yes, I've done that in past. I removed the dish reflector so I could precisely see the motor dial, physically zeroed the motor, then reset the motor using a paper clip (standard tool in my toolbox) inserted in a small hole in the motor to press the reset button. After restarting the receiver, then USALS seemed to work. But as I slowly began to set up the 1.2 positions hoping to have both systems functional, I would lose the USALS settings. I went through this whole process a couple of times. I'm going to leave well enough alone and stick with 1.2.
Click to expand...

Considering my past experience and yours with this motor, I'd say that sounds like the least frustrating course of action. :) My two DG-380's, STAB HH120 and STAB hh90 all were/are stellar USALS performers, if you ever want to go shopping. :)
 
Ha, it's quite funny. I just tried messing now with lat / long settings and started to get USALS working. But sure enough it wiped out (or changed) my 1.2 settings. I'm going back to 1.2 settings and will leave it. I must use 1.2 for some of the settings since I have a circular LNB offset beside my linear LNB. Also, for the extreme sats on the edge (for example, 15W) USALS may not work anyway. Also, I'll return to this subject when I get my new receiver (probably microHD).

Now that I know this FTA stuff is a keeper, my longer term plan is to get a 1.2m dish, probably upgrading to a better motor at that time.
 
Look at your instruction booklet, it should say how far east and west the motor will operate. If I remember correctly, mine is supposed to work 75 degrees either direction. If you are in NS, you might be able to get it to go to 15w, just not sure how accurate it will be.
 
This motor can physically travel + and - 70 degrees to the hardware stops per its manual. When the motor is centered for me at due south, I use diseqc 1.2 commands to go to 15W by the motor moving 58 degrees to the east and to 125W by moving 69 degrees to the west. No USALS range is specified since the motor manual doesn't discuss that function.
 
DiSEqC 1.2 motors are capable of responding to USALS commands, but most are not fully USALS compliant. Inexpensive motors rarely will publish that they operate with USALS as they have not purchased the license and cannot legally incorporate or advertise USALS function.

These motors instead will state that they are "Go To X" compatible. In this mode the motor receives and positions based on commands issued by the receiver, but do not incorporate the handshake command verification back to the receiver. Fully implemented, USALS is a two way communication protocol between the receiver and an external device. "Go To X" is a one way communication without return verification. Both USALS and "Go To X" will control a DiSEqC 1.2 motor, but with reduced reliability.

Motors do not have a USALS range. The motor's range is the physical limits of motor travel (which can be usually increased by +\- 10 additional degrees by removing the adjustable mechanical stops). The USALS range is determined by the calculation range provided by the receiver.
 
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This is exactly how my manual reads with many mentions of Go To X. So why is the calculated USALS range less than the physical movement range? I've heard USALS will only calculate about + and - 60 degrees or less? Isn't it time to update the USALS calculation?
 
If your receiver limits USALS calculations to +\-60 degrees, it is due to the implementation of calculation by either the chipset or the firmware. This range limititation is not due to the USALS protocol.

From a practical standpoint, mechanical tolerances of the motor, mount and dish builds and installations variances make near horizon aiming better suited for manual setting and fine tuning with DiSEqC 1.2. The spacing between satellites gets tighter near the ends of the arc and motorized system hardware tolerances and aiming errors are amplified during near horizon satellite tuning.
 
One comment about the Openbox manual - maybe its better than having nothing but but the manual I got with my S10 was the same as what was in the box with the S9's I looked at. The pictures in the manual were not my S10 (or the S9 for the one in the S9 box.). It appears the manual was simply generic and perhaps written for someone's prior model and not updated at all for the features of newer STB's. I found I had to rely on what was on the packaging and in the firmware menus and other than the basic stuff like how to turn it on, avoid the manual all together. The cardboard box for both the S9 and S10 claimed USALS as a feature.

I'd thnk it fair to say if an S9 or S10 has USALS in its firmware menus, then its intended to be USALS capable (compliant or not). Having said that, the USALS on my S10 is crap (inaccurate, random etc.) so its only Diseq 1.2 for me. Now maybe its slop in the motor but I am more confident in its ability to respond to commands than I am in the Openbox giving them.
 
Brian indicates both motor and receiver must support USALS for the function to work reliably. How do you know the receiver is causing your problems? I agree the manual is terrible. But I don't use it so it doesn't matter.
 
oblio said:
One comment about the Openbox manual - maybe its better than having nothing but but the manual I got with my S10 was the same as what was in the box with the S9's I looked at. The pictures in the manual were not my S10 (or the S9 for the one in the S9 box.). It appears the manual was simply generic and perhaps written for someone's prior model and not updated at all for the features of newer STB's. I found I had to rely on what was on the packaging and in the firmware menus and other than the basic stuff like how to turn it on, avoid the manual all together. The cardboard box for both the S9 and S10 claimed USALS as a feature.

I'd thnk it fair to say if an S9 or S10 has USALS in its firmware menus, then its intended to be USALS capable (compliant or not). Having said that, the USALS on my S10 is crap (inaccurate, random etc.) so its only Diseq 1.2 for me. Now maybe its slop in the motor but I am more confident in its ability to respond to commands than I am in the Openbox giving them.
Click to expand...

Wonder whether the USALS problems are firmware related, rather than hardware. My Solomend 800 ( s9 type) is rock solid with USALS. If they still built the Solomend 800 PVR, as well as the first ones that came out, they'd be a current favorite , I have no doubt.
:)
 
USALS errors are most likely to be firmware related in the STB. I have yet to develop on a chipset that did not provide solid USALS capabilities. Firmware implementation by developers is another story.

Several hacker boxes and even PCI card software packages have been released with non-functioning USALS control. The hardware and chipset supported USALS, but it was not implemented in the firmware.
 
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