My HOA is fining me $100 / day b/c of my DISH! HELP!!!

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

My HOA is currently fining me $100 / day for not taking down my DTV dish. The HOA covenants state that architectural approval must be obtained before any dishes can be installed. To make a long story short, I put up the with w/o their approval, and the committee declined the location. I have a triple LMB dish, and b/c i has to look at 3 birds, there's no where else to put the dish. Even the guy form the HOA later on admits it can be moved, and needs to be covered by shrubs.

I have read all the FCC an OTARD Rules, it seems I am covered under their rules, and the covenants of the HOA are illegal.

Does anyone know what I need to do to get this HOA off my back? I miss by DTV, and today is day 1

For any of you that want more details and have 20 minutes to read this email conversation I've been having w/ the HOA manager, it's simply amazing:
You have to read this from the bottom up:
http://www.ghost-eyes.com/temp/dish.htm

Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated. I have been told to get a lawyer and go to court, I’d rather not spend the money. I have the time to fight this, but not a lot of interest in spending money on this ordeal.

lou_do · Apr 5, 2007

amrit50 said:
My HOA is currently fining me $100 / day for not taking down my DTV dish. The HOA covenants state that architectural approval must be obtained before any dishes can be installed. To make a long story short, I put up the with w/o their approval, and the committee declined the location. I have a triple LMB dish, and b/c i has to look at 3 birds, there's no where else to put the dish. Even the guy form the HOA later on admits it can be moved, and needs to be covered by shrubs.

I have read all the FCC an OTARD Rules, it seems I am covered under their rules, and the covenants of the HOA are illegal.

Does anyone know what I need to do to get this HOA off my back? I miss by DTV, and today is day 1

For any of you that want more details and have 20 minutes to read this email conversation I've been having w/ the HOA manager, it's simply amazing:
You have to read this from the bottom up:
http://www.ghost-eyes.com/temp/dish.htm

Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated. I have been told to get a lawyer and go to court, I’d rather not spend the money. I have the time to fight this, but not a lot of interest in spending money on this ordeal.

Boy, does your story sound familiar. We had that same sort of rule in our community, put their by the builders. I advised the ARC committee of which I am a member of, that we had to change that covenant, regarding satellite dishes and antennas. They wanted to know why, and I advised them it was against the law. So they asked our attorney to look at it and he advised the way it was written it truly was against the law. So we re-wrote the covenant to comply with the FCC law it now reads:

Section 26. Antennae, Aerials and Satellite Dishes.

The Federal Communications Commission has published rules which govern the right of homeowners to receive programming from direct broadcast satellites (DBS), multi-channel, multipoint distribution (wireless cable) service (MMDS) and television broadcast stations (TVBS). The Association is prohibited from the following:
(1) Restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennae to receive video programming as well as satellite dishes which are less than thirty-nine (39) inches in diameter.
(2) Restrictions that unreasonably delay or prevent, or unreasonably increase the cost of, the installation, maintenance or use of such antennae, or which preclude the reception of an acceptable quality signal.

The Association does have the right to regulate the above-described telecommunications equipment with respect to landscaping and safety. When possible, all exterior antennae or aerials shall be placed in the rear or side yard, in such a manner as to be as unobtrusive as possible. Any matter of safety will be handled on a case by case basis by the Association.

Any homeowner who wishes to install an antenna or a satellite dish should submit a sketch showing its location relative to the home to the Architectural Control Review Committee.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Print a copy of this and take it to the Association's attorney and have him check your covenants to make sure they comply with it: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

damaged · Apr 5, 2007

You should consult a lawyer, and if you don't want to pay for one, study up on law and have at it, and never take legal advice off an internet forum without consulting a real lawyer.

richiephx · Apr 5, 2007

Here's a link I found on DBS Talk..... http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

kdarcangelis870 · Apr 5, 2007

Fight it until the end!!!!!!!! These Nazi HOA's have absolutely no legal standing in your current situation. If they were to take this case to court it would most likely be thrown out due to the FCC's Otard ruling. I would carefully document all letters, e-mail, and phone calls from these nazi's and file a countersuit for harassment! Good Luck!

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

lou_do said:
Print a copy of this and take it to the Association's attorney and have him check your covenants to make sure they comply with it: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

I think this is my best option...guys, thanks for all the replys.

charper1 · Apr 5, 2007

Sounds like they are not fighting you because of the dish itself but because you failed to turn in the correct notification for home improvement BEFOREHAND; am I wrong?

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

charper1 said:
Sounds like they are not fighting you because of the dish itself but because you failed to turn in the correct notification for home improvement BEFOREHAND; am I wrong?

Maybe...but I turned in the notification and they declined the location, stating that it must be moved, and that in 9 years, he had never heard of a dish that could not be mounted on top of a house.

damaged · Apr 5, 2007

The OP has already violated good faith by putting up the dish without asking, perhaps if he invoked the OTARD before doing what he did, it might have helped (again, this poster, like others, simply do NOT provide enough information to be able to judge if the OTARD can be useful, he will either have to have an understanding of the OTARD document, make sure that all conditions are met, and that exceptions (if any) apply (or not) to his case, then he has to know how to present it in a manner which is consistant with the OTARDs intent, or hire someone who can (a lawyer).

The OTARD is NOT a blanket carte blanche to be able to do anything you want without going through the proper channels, and it has many exceptions that could negate any legal right the OP thinks they have to put up a dish.

Frankly if he signed something stating that he agrees to ask the HOA before doing anything like this, he may not have a leg to stand on as far as the fines go.

My non-lawyer advice (other than getting a real lawyer), take down the dish NOW, so no more fines are accrued, then try and make nice, perhaps they will waive the fines, _then_ you can talk about the OTARD.

charper1 · Apr 5, 2007

Yep, you violated the the terms of the CONTRACT you signed by putting up ANYTHING without prior approval; so as stated they are not fighting your right to a dish, they are forcing you to comply with the rules as expected. Sorry, but this is another hastily bust on an HOA, when that is not who is at fault; sorry to say.

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

Ya you guys are right, I'll go talk to the HOA lawyer tomorrow and see what he says. I have read the entire OTARD rules, I am under those rules in every circumstance. I am 100% covered by those rules. I actually told them about the OTARD at the 1st hearing, and they were like, you don't wanna go to court over this...

damaged · Apr 5, 2007

amrit50 said:
Ya you guys are right, i'll go talk to the HOA lawyer tomorrow and see what he says. I have read the entire OTARD rules, I am under those rules in every circumstance. I am 100% covered by those rules.

Good luck, and please do not take my posts as trying to poopoo on your parade, but this kind of thing can get sticky, and for the record, I think any property/home owner should be able to put their dish anywhere they want (within reason of course, and without violating someone elses rights), sadly, todays world is not so simple.

Keep us posted.

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

damaged said:
Good luck, and please do not take my posts as trying to poopoo on your parade, but this kind of thing can get sticky, and for the record, I think any property/home owner should be able to put their dish anywhere they want (within reason of course, and without violating someone elses rights), sadly, todays world is not so simple.

Keep us posted.

No offense taken, an honest, thoughful post is most important.

psnarula · Apr 5, 2007

charper1 said:
you violated the the terms of the CONTRACT you signed by putting up ANYTHING without prior approval

but if otard says i can put up a dish anywhere i want isn't it the case that HOA rules which limit where a dish can be placed are illegal?

charper1 · Apr 5, 2007

psnarula said:
but if otard says i can put up a dish anywhere i want isn't it the case that HOA rules which limit where a dish can be placed are illegal?

As I read it, they can limit as long as they are not (whats the correct word) totally inhibiting your ability to reception. Damaged is that the correct phrasing? They also have the right to require you to get pre-approval for additions, and if you skip that approval process; then you are surely looking at a tough way to go.

damaged · Apr 5, 2007

psnarula said:
but if otard says i can put up a dish anywhere i want isn't it the case that HOA rules which limit where a dish can be placed are illegal?

If the OTARD covers your situation, their lawyer will try and scare you, the ONLY way to call this bluff is to, yep, hire a lawyer, perhaps you could find others who are in the same situation (under the same HOA) as they could chip-in on a lawyer.

damaged · Apr 5, 2007

charper1 said:
As I read it, they can limit as long as they are not (whats the correct word) totally inhibiting your ability to reception. Damaged is that the correct phrasing?

Right, if the HOA can prove that there is a way to comply with THIER rules AND get your reception, then you _must_ meet them halfway by obeying their rules, as long as their rule does NOT inhibit you from getting a signal, you must comply with any existing HOA rules, ONLY when their request/rule results in you NOT getting a signal (this must be proved), could the OTARD even be invoked, to summarize, the OTARD does NOT say, 'you can put it anywhere you want'.

charper1 · Apr 5, 2007

Damaged: That is exactly what I thought. Thanks!

Amrit50: don't get caught up in all these other HOA haters and the "you can do anything you want all the time" rhetoric. All that will do is cause you MORE problems down the road and those guys will not be there to help you. 99% of all HOAs are good and do the right thing; the remaining 1% generally just do not know the rules as most are simple home owners just like you me; and yes, there are a few that are just plain asses. But all we need to do is weed THOSE out, not damn ALL HOAs.

lou_do · Apr 5, 2007

amrit50 said:
Maybe...but I turned in the notification and they declined the location, stating that it must be moved, and that in 9 years, he had never heard of a dish that could not be mounted on top of a house.

If they request you put it on the back of the house, and it is possible to do so, you have to. If putting it on the back of the house, is going to cause the satellites to be obstructed by trees, then, they have to allow you to put it where you have a clear view of the satellites.

If you didn't know you had to fill out paperwork, to install a dish and have done it after, most HOA ARC committees will except that as an excuse, if you comply, by filling out what is needed, as soon as you are told. But you must remember it is your responsibility, as a home owner, to know what your convenants are. Some HOA are more lax about letting you go back and correct after the fact others are not.

amrit50 · Apr 5, 2007

damaged said:
Right, if the HOA can prove that there is a way to comply with THIER rules AND get your reception, then you _must_ meet them halfway by obeying their rules, as long as their rule does NOT inhibit you from getting a signal, you must comply by the existing HOA rule, ONLY when their request/rule results in you NOT getting a signal (this must be proved), could the OTARD even be invoked, to summarize, the OTARD does NOT say, 'you can put it anywhere you want'.

I have a signed letter from DTV stating that there is NO other location to put the dish. I would have moved it if i could...believe me.

My HOA is fining me $100 / day b/c of my DISH! HELP!!!

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