Hearst Television Inc. blacks out DISH customers in 26 markets
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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i will tell you my story, I have used Dish network for a long time, I used them 2 years ago for a 2 year contract and then took some time off, I was lead to believe because I fullfilled this comitment that when I restarted Dish that I was no longer under the rule, so this last month I wanted to cancel my services and was told that i couldn't, Honesty means a lot to me and back in the day Dish was way better then the other with services, but lately it seem Dish is outsourcing their help and getting dis-honest operators! So in 9 months I will close my service and never use them again! I mean I have used them for like 10+ years but no more! So my advice to Dish would be get some REAL AMERICAN OPERATORS! But as for me it's way to late! I am done!
Are you saying that the time you spent away, was time you were counting towards the commitment? If it is paused, it has never counted towards the commitment.
You misunderstand me Bruno. My point is Dish could use the PSIP guide data, they don't have to pay anyone to use it, it's been around since DTV with no changes, but Dish REFUSES to help their customers. Now, why do you think they'd do that? The software must not be too difficult since it's on every TV. Granted, it's not 7 days, but isn't a couple hours better than displaying "Digital Service"?
Once again you have no clue what you are talking about. Dish's software has never read the PSIP stream. There is no magic switch for the to turn it on.
Unless you are volunteering to write it for them.
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So PSIP guide data, which has been in existence since DTV began over a decade ago, and is able to be displayed by every TV manufacturer, is beyond Dish's technical ability to handle? Is that what you believe? If that's the case, Dish has some serious problems.Once again you have no clue what you are talking about. Dish's software has never read the PSIP stream. There is no magic switch for the to turn it on.
Unless you are volunteering to write it for them.
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ETA: I know Dish's software has never read the PSIP stream. I've never claimed it does. I think Dish saying they're "looking out for the customers" and then refusing to read the PSIP stream is hypocritical. Think about the OTA stations people get with no guide data (with no dispute in the equation). Why does Dish refuse to read the PSIP guide data?
Well I guess directv and every cable operator that supports OTA has serious problems too.
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Sorry, I did misunderstood your post. That would be NICE if DISH could use the PSIP data but when the last time you heard about DISH being NICE. I TOTALLY agree that DISH REFUSES to help their customers. Losing CBS was a bigger deal than ABC. Don't record that much on ABC.
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Well if DISH would allow through software ,the ability to use two of the new usb ota dongles, that splits it in to two ota channels that can be recorded at the same time, you would get 4 ota channels. Simple fix once they enable the ota dongle to record two ota channels at the same time. Would also lessen the need to give in to the ota channels when they try to extort more money at contract renewal time. As long as they keep the guide information and or enable the receiver to read Psip data , which I have been asking for years for them to do. Then you could also get guide information for the sub channels that they don't carry guide information for . The other suggestion I had is to use TITAN TV app in the hoppers for ota channels and we could get full guide information for us to 2 weeks through the internet for our receivers.I would like the Hopper 4 have 4 built in OTA tuners.
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I have switched back and forth between Dish and Directv a couple of times. My anecdotal experience is Dish has been worse about conflicts with non-network channels (Charlie seems to relish these fights) and both about equal with the locals fights. I had locals disputes with both (in one case, with the same locals provider.)
When Dish or Directv in good faith offers to retroactively pay the new fees to the locals provider, and the locals owner turns it down, that tips it in favor of the satellite provider IMO.
What I have done when this happens to my locals is send emails to all of the local advertisers and copy the local network owner, state why I am holding the locals network owner as the one using me as blackmail (e.g. "since Dish has offered to pay the new rates retroactively once agreed upon, there is no reason for Hearst to refuse to allow Dish to show our local channels during this dispute other than to use me as blackmail, knowing most viewers will not dig into the details but will just call Dish and complain that they can't get Channel X, and for these reasons I want you to know that the money you are spending on advertising on this channel are no longer being viewed by the xx thousand subscribers to Dish in this area. So you are getting far less views of your local commercials and I assume you are not paying less for these ads during this dispute. Also, be aware that, due to Hearst trying to use me as blackmail to get what they want, by refusing to allow Dish to show the channel during this fight, I now will no longer watch any local news or local programming on Channel X even when this is over, and I am organizing as many viewers as I can in our area who are effected by this to do the same - thus you will probably get more bang for your buck by moving your advertising dollars to the other locals in this area."
Believe it or not, I've gotten a LOT of replies from the advertisers, most of whom had no idea their advertising was suddenly reaching far fewer viewers,and in two cases I actually had two big advertises in the area send me a reply copying the owner of the locals that they would be moving their ads until the dispute was over.
It may be small ripples in a big pond, but at least I did what I could.
When Dish or Directv in good faith offers to retroactively pay the new fees to the locals provider, and the locals owner turns it down, that tips it in favor of the satellite provider IMO.
What I have done when this happens to my locals is send emails to all of the local advertisers and copy the local network owner, state why I am holding the locals network owner as the one using me as blackmail (e.g. "since Dish has offered to pay the new rates retroactively once agreed upon, there is no reason for Hearst to refuse to allow Dish to show our local channels during this dispute other than to use me as blackmail, knowing most viewers will not dig into the details but will just call Dish and complain that they can't get Channel X, and for these reasons I want you to know that the money you are spending on advertising on this channel are no longer being viewed by the xx thousand subscribers to Dish in this area. So you are getting far less views of your local commercials and I assume you are not paying less for these ads during this dispute. Also, be aware that, due to Hearst trying to use me as blackmail to get what they want, by refusing to allow Dish to show the channel during this fight, I now will no longer watch any local news or local programming on Channel X even when this is over, and I am organizing as many viewers as I can in our area who are effected by this to do the same - thus you will probably get more bang for your buck by moving your advertising dollars to the other locals in this area."
Believe it or not, I've gotten a LOT of replies from the advertisers, most of whom had no idea their advertising was suddenly reaching far fewer viewers,and in two cases I actually had two big advertises in the area send me a reply copying the owner of the locals that they would be moving their ads until the dispute was over.
It may be small ripples in a big pond, but at least I did what I could.
Dish sure knows (or has hired someone) about using PSIP Data. I still use their DTV PAL DVR which is an only OTA device. It used to have a TVGUIDE EPG over CBS station but lost that several years ago. It is now only PSIP . Have had Dish for 20 years but got the OTA dvr because needed more local dvring than the current 722k could provide. I am using that for my ABC programing and guide info. Maybe I'll just Flex pack with out LOCALS and avoid the constant PITA.
Does Direct have OTA tuners on board? Do cable operators? If so, and they're not utilizing PSIP guide if internet guide isn't available, yes, I feel they're doing a disservice to their subscribers.
Apparently you either work for one of these greedy locals or have some other vested interest or bias. If you're making money from it well more power to you but the bottom line is that most everybody has a hard time being extorted for something that others can get for free over the air. It's that simple.
I don't think anybody would complain about paying a reasonable stipend to cover costs and provide a small profit for the local channels for satellite or cable delivery but this greed is getting ridiculous. They've taken something that was meant to be free OTA and have turned it into a multi billion dollar profit center and they still don't know when enough is enough. That just ain't right.
No better than DISH receivers last, probably not many DTV PAL out there. Are DTV PAL using PSIP? If so DISH, must have the technology.
Dcubed Quote...I still use their DTV PAL DVR which is an only OTA device. It used to have a TVGUIDE EPG over CBS station but lost that several years ago. It is now only PSIP.
The other thing I look at in these disputes is the relative profit margins of the companies involved. As a private company, it is difficult to find financial data for them, but they have reported record profits the last 2 years running, while Dish's profit margin hovers around a meager 9%.
There are still Pal DVRs out there. There is still discussions going on I. The PAL thread on AVS. I have 3. Still have 2 here in Broken Arrow. They were backups to my TiVo, until I moved the TiVo to cable. I spent weeks, several years ago talking to all the local engineers asking the stations to send out more than 12-24 hrs of psip data. All the engineers were nice and very helpful, except the ones from Cox for FOX23 and MY41. They called me everyday while making adjustments to their streams until they had a happy balance and 3 days of guide data going out. Still working fine today except for the 2 Cox stations still only send out 12-18hrs and the leasea KWHB currently has nothing going out. They fix it one week and the next it is broken again.
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You must have never owned a business, 9% profit after all costs is pretty great, for example, average mark up from wholesale is double, say the item costs $50, sell at $100, sometimes it is less, sometimes more, out of that $50 profit you have to pay rent/mortgage, labor, insurance, other costs in running a business-phones, internet, supplies, etc, etc.
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Yeah, one example, Ford has averaged about 5% net profit (simple definition, how much you've got left after all expenses except for common stock dividends have been taken out of your revenues.) Pharmaceutical companies are assumed to be high profit margin with the top ten averaging about 18% (Astra Zeneca is about 10%.) The highest profit margin of all car companies is Hyundi (surprisingly) at about 10% - Toyota is about 7, Honda is about 5%, BMW is 7%. Exxon is around 8%, BP around 6%.
I think this data is about a year or two old, but it gives you the general range that the top companies run at.
I think this data is about a year or two old, but it gives you the general range that the top companies run at.
That's why I've said "relative". Most media companies are solidly in the double digits in profit margin (12-15%), some as high as 20%. I was just pointing out that because I couldn't get an accurate number for Hearst, I could only go on the anecdotal information of "record numbers".
Don't know why everyone is talking about other industries, except maybe to introduce a strawman.
I've made no secret that I feel locals should get paid retrans money. I've also made no secret that locals can ask for too much. No one here knows what the stations are getting paid/asking for, so I don't know if they've crossed that line. I've posted before on how I think the negotiations should happen. I don't think locals are blameless, but I also don't think Dish is either.
FWIW, free OTA is still out there. Many people on this forum admit to being able to use it.
