Multi units satellite hookup design

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by Sadoun, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. Sadoun

    Sadoun Thread Starter SatelliteGuys Family

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    I have a potential customer interested in the following:

    He has 18 apartments that he wants to hookup for DirecTV, Dish Network, and Galaxy 25 service.

    He wants to give the tenants the option to choose which service to receive (only one of the pay service and the option of G25). Every unit has two TVs.

    He wants to consolidate the installation to a few dishes as possible. The farthest distance from the control room to any of the apartments is around 150ft.

    I have an idea on how he should design the network, but I would like to hear your suggestions.
     
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  2. Anole

    Anole SatelliteGuys Guru

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    I don't think the number of dishes is necessarily an issue.
    The number of cables to each unit might be, though.

    An important part of the equation, is where he's located, and which birds on Dish he needs to see.
    In some cases, Hi Def subscribers will need different satellites, and for locals, there's also a chance specific birds will need to be received.
    Oh, and being able to get International channels may require reception of yet another satellite.
    There's no good way to down-feed Dish with FTA, either.

    As to DirecTV, there are the Ka band birds for hi def, and the queer distribution frequencies they use through their switches.
    I'm pretty sure there's no way to combine this with any other service.

    Ya probably will get better response in the Installer Forum department, where the Dish and DirecTV guys who know their stuff can offer input.
     
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  3. Tron

    Tron SatelliteGuys Family

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    Might be best to offer a selection of FTA channels delivered to the individual apartment units via a headend configuration, similar to what is found in hotels, using modulators. The relative complexity of FTA receivers might present a problem to the end users.
     
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  4. Iceberg

    Iceberg The No Pain Train
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    Dish and FTA would be easy

    Dish Network if you use a Dish1000 (I assume you would use bigger dishes) but you could cascade a bunch of DP34's or DP44's 3 lines from the dish to the switch and cascade the switches.

    FTA you could use a dual LNB and a bunch of multiswitches. Maybe a 2x16 or use some high frequency splitters at the LNB to multiply those out. Or you have those 3x4 cascadable switches. Those would work too.

    DirecTV depends on which dish you get. If you use just the triple dish the multiswitches work the same way (4x8, 4x16 etc)
     
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  5. Sadoun

    Sadoun Thread Starter SatelliteGuys Family

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    I agree with Iceberg.

    The multi-units are located in California.

    Basically the control room (CR) where all the switches will be located will be the hookup point for each apt.

    Let's say Apt 1 wants FTA only, so in CR, cables coming from Apt A will be hooked up to FTA multiswitch.

    Apt #2 wants DirecTV, so cable coming from Apt 2 will be hooked up to DTV switch and so forth.

    Each unit would have to order it's own subscription with the pay service.
     
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  6. Iceberg

    Iceberg The No Pain Train
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    Oh I thought you it was being set up that each apt had basically 6 cables in the wall plate. 3 for each room (Direct/Dish/FTA).

    What happens if they want both Dish or Direct & FTA? How would that work? You would need 2 lines probably 3. Also if they want Dish or Direct the DVR's need 2 lines. Dish would be easier as a DPP44+ switch could do both tuners off one line and all they would need is a separator. But DirecTV you need two lines for the DVR unless you get to stackers/destackers and they can get SPENDY :)

    My opinion is I would run 3 lines to each cable jack. 2 for DBS (2 lines as a backup in case they want a DVR) and one for FTA. In the control room you could have all the FTA set up so there is no switching there. Everybody can have the option to have it. But the two lines for Dish/Direct you would have to wire up as need be.

    so in apt 1 if they want Dish, then wires 1a & 1b would go to Dish switch. If Apt 2 wants DirecTV and they have a DVR, then its 2a & 2b. If Apt 3 wants just G25 there would be no wiring to be moved as all apts would get that option.
     
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  7. Sadoun

    Sadoun Thread Starter SatelliteGuys Family

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    That makes sense.
     
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  8. Iceberg

    Iceberg The No Pain Train
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    Here is a quicky drawing...some things of note on there

    If you use a AT9 or slimline then you need 6x8 multiswitches

    Dish1000 might be better to do DPP44 switches for 2 reasons
    -if you have a dual tuner DVR then the separator is all that is needed and one cable coming to the apt. That saves on lines going there therefore not needing that many switches
    -DPP44 is powered and may be better if you cascade a bunch of them together

    FTA seems to be the easiest set up ;)
     

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  9. cracklincrotch

    cracklincrotch Active SatelliteGuys Member

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    What if you were to add another satellite or more to the FTA? Would you need two additional 2x16 multi switches for each sat added, and then a diseqc switch to go to each sat's 2x16 switch? Or would there be a simpler way to do that?
     
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  10. Iceberg

    Iceberg The No Pain Train
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    If they make a 4x16 switch out there you could use that if they added a 2nd satellite.

    If there isnt one out there, then you would uyse the same setup as DirecTV with a 4 way splitter on each output and run a line from each output to a 4x8 multiswitch
     
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  11. Buzzdar

    Buzzdar Active SatelliteGuys Member

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    Ok here is a question for ya Why cant an apartment Complex Pick a company like D* or E* and put one company's dish on the roof and if the tenant wants that company let them call and hook up that company but everyone using that one dish. Why do i have to see one company with 6 or more different dishes on an Apt building. why does everyone need there own dish?
     
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  12. mikekohl

    mikekohl Supporting Founder
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    It is often cheaper to install a simple antenna for each customer in many situations, than to deal with compensating for line losses, installing RG-11 cable after a couple hundred feet, or the added hardware needed to serve multiple units.
    The cost and complexity of going to a 16 output multiswitch and the added cable lengths might make the decision for something like eight units sharing a common dish and multiswitch. Install separate antenna systems and multiswitches for a certain number of units, given the economics of distance from the antenna location and hardware needed to do so.
     
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  13. Iceberg

    Iceberg The No Pain Train
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    I can think of one right off the top of my head and that was the apt complex wasn't thinking.
    Back in 2000 I use to live in a brand new apt complex that put a 36 or 48" dish on the roof for Dish Network. And if you wanted Dish you could talk to the landlord and they would set you up with one. There were 3 jacks in the house (one in LR and one in each BR)...so it sounded simple, right?

    well....there were some issues
    -they only had a dish at 119. So you couldn't get anything on 110
    -Even though the locals were through Dish at the time (the big 4), they wouldn't give them to us...they were on 110
    -they gave us a crappy 3000 receiver
    -they charged us 6.95 as a "maintenance" fee for the box & our locals (which came from an antenna so they were fuzzy)

    They built a new complex about 4 years ago and guess what they did? They still only put a 119 dish up (I can see it from the road). With people wanting stuff on 129 or even 110 (lots of Spanish speaking people in the town I live in) there are numerous dishes on poles on the decks.

    Unless its a new complex, its tough to completely redo the wiring in the walls as allot of complexes used RG59. Also you have to think of dual runs for the dual tuner DVR's
     
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