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Satellite pole sight for KU?

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by Gray Hair, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    In attempting to come up with a plan to install my FTA KU setup. I need guidance in figuring out where to put my pole. Primarily at the moment to figure out how much coax to order for installation. It appears that it could be minimum of 75ft or maybe as much as 150 ft. Preferably order all needed things at one time to save shipping.

    Last fall the week after satellites and sun were following same arc I attempted to follow the sun with my thumb as somebody on the site had suggested. It appeared that 125W would not be assessable from being behind trees, and all satellites from 30W would be available. Now when I get down to hard figuring I find dishpointer pictures from sight small and not quite at the same angle, as I would picture them.

    If I get farther from the house and back I could loose 30W unless I start topping fruit trees and topping pine trees.

    I have used a compass and it shows about the same place as dishpointer for 125W. I used the Site Check Tool, Satellite Elevation Finder for aligning satellites from the Glorystar site, with it I show 125W accessible above top of tree. I put a straw on the same device and end up with the top of trees showing inside the straw.

    Site Check Tool, Satellite Elevation Finder
    Page 40
    http://www.glorystar.tv/portal/11/documents/GloryTwinMercV6_ENG.pdf

    I would like to do the range from at least 30W to 125W. I would like to do this job of pole and coax installation once. I would like to order my coax with everything else to save on shipping. Not aware of any good coax locally. The D system was here, seemed the copper clad ends were always rusting off.

    At the moment still doing the best I can to use the sight checker for the moon. http://gjullien.fr/satellite.htm
    Don’t see any way to print it out. Is there a way to print it out?
    I don’t see anything that it indicates it is accurate. There is not any listing for azimuth (magn) 246.1, 237.5 (true), or Elevation 25.1 for 125W, if I did it correctly.

    I have noticed someone posted following the moon with the Naval charts. I believe the one I found was for 11:40AM, so that would not work.

    I’ve been working on this for several weeks and it is starting to get frustrating.


    Seems like somebody had suggested installing a KU satellite without motor, use a support of some kind to keep the dish from dropping down the pole. Was it a muffler clamp or something else?


    Thoughts and ideas?

    Thanks!
     
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  2. turbosat

    turbosat SatelliteGuys Family

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    Installing without a motor is probably a good idea, if it's your first install. Finding that first satellite signal, and learning how much ( how little, that is) to move your fixed dish to hit that next satellite is very helpful. Once you know how it works, and if you can hit the satellites you want to watch, then decide if you have the right location. I've moved several of my dishes more than once, uprooting a ku dish pole is cake compared to doing the c-band dish poles! So unless you're in solid rock, don't worry, its not that hard to replant the pole. Get your compass out, and find due south, and look left and right of that. If you have pretty good sight of the sky then that is a good beginning. The dish will drop in elevation as you go both east and west of due south, but not that much. Overgrown with trees here also, and some are too big to cut. Or good trees like black walnut. Keep us posted on your progress. I would love to have done all mine once, too, but unless you have a big flat field to put the dishes in, there's always a chance of having to move them.
     
    #2
  3. polgyver

    polgyver Active SatelliteGuys Member

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    Position of the Moon can also show the arc, 26 times a year, alternatively every 10 and 17 days, approximately. There is a web site, which is hosted by US Navy, and you could find it by googling "sun or moon altitude azimuth table". You can input West Virginia, and a city (I tried Morgantown). Choose "Moon", 1-minute interval. Before this, find out co-ordinates for satellites of interest for you using Dishpointer (I found that Galaxy 19, 97W, is on azimuth 205.7 and altitude 40.9 for Morgantown). You can try different days on Navy site, searching always for azimuth first, and checking what is Moon altitude for this azimuth. I found that on July 14, Sunday, the Moon, at hour/minute 19.31, will be at very close azimuth and its altitude will be 40.3 - pretty close to this sat.97 W. It will be visible 38% of Moon's face. Hopefully the weather will be good... Next Moon rendez-vous - July 24 or 25 (for these days, some interpolation of altitude is needed - the Moon face is visible as 1/2 degree. Cheers, polgyver
     
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  4. Lone Gunman

    Lone Gunman Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member

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    FYI, while copper plated steel coax "may" not be the best to use, you can somewhat limit the rust involved by coating your coax connections with Vaseline petroleum jelly when assembling everything used outside. I've done this for years (even with solid copper core coax) and never used a crimp coax end to date, screw on's only. Never seen a problem associated with this practice either as the Vaseline keeps moisture (corrosion) out of the connection.

    As usual though, your mileage may vary! ;)
     
    #4
  5. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    Updat

    Thanks to all!

    125 w I believe is the only satellite that is in question. It is on a combination of hill, tree’s, and dipping of arc.

    “Do I live in an open field” No, I live almost on the top of a hill with a hill and trees at where 125W is. All from even before 30W up to 125W has a rather clear shot, mostly because of the highness in the middle of arc for satellites, especially 97W. In fact there is a picture of that hill, and trees in the OTA section: http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/311589-OTA-complications
    The picture behind the OTA antenna contains the area where 125W would be, but hopefully a wee bit higher than the trees.

    Polgyver
    Thanks for the ideas it made it possible to understand the Navy sight better and how to reduce search time for 125W.

    I don’t see myself moving this satellite pole after installing pole, drenching pipe for coax of 75 to 100 plus feet, if I can get all but 125W.
     
    #5
  6. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    Thoughts

    polgyver
    "Position of the Moon can also show the arc, 26 times a year, alternatively every 10 and 17 days, approximately. There is a web site, which is hosted by US Navy, and you could find it by googling "sun or moon altitude azimuth table". You can input West Virginia, and a city (I tried Morgantown). Choose "Moon", 1-minute interval. Before this, find out co-ordinates for satellites of interest for you using Dishpointer (I found that Galaxy 19, 97W, is on azimuth 205.7 and altitude 40.9 for Morgantown). You can try different days on Navy site, searching always for azimuth first, and checking what is Moon altitude for this azimuth. I found that on July 14, Sunday, the Moon, at hour/minute 19.31, will be at very close azimuth and its altitude will be 40.3 - pretty close to this sat.97 W. It will be visible 38% of Moon's face. Hopefully the weather will be good... Next Moon rendez-vous - July 24 or 25 (for these days, some interpolation of altitude is needed - the Moon face is visible as 1/2 degree. Cheers, polgyver "


    I checked out 97W about 10 min late, but moon was so high it will not be an issue.

    In attempting to get 125W location of moon to match I used the
    same location. For some reasons have been unable to use
    Latitude & Longitude, Navy’s agenda responds “Error in input
    longitude”.

    In using the location previous used came up with (for 125W) July 25 at 6:58 AM Altitude of 27.4, Azimuth of 237.4 & 6:59 Altitude of 27.2, Azimuth of 237.6.

    August 25,2013 19:34AM Altitude 25.7, Azimuth 237.5.

    Elevation 25.1, Altitude 237.5, for 125W on Dishponiter.com.

    So the above moon choices should work.

    "turbosat"
    In the part about relocating KU system, I like rv1pop idea about using a portable pallet to set up systems in the right place first time, using water in milk jugs as ballast (I would consider 5 gal. buckets). Also liked his idea of using a 36” pipe wrench to slow down movement in adjusting satellite dish. Always wondered how I would manage that one.

    So wondering about the pallet, possibilities of ordering more coax than needed. I have the dish 500 parts but don’t know if plate will attach to a 36” GeosatPro dish, or if I am asking for trouble.

    I have not received any input on what to put on the pole to keep the dish from dropping while adjusting. While the idea was gleamed from this sight, I did not remember what they had recommended, I had mentioned a muffler clamp but that was defiantly what Brian had recommended for the bottom of the pole to keep it from turning. I also believe the muffler clamp holding the dish may crush the pipe and distort the alignment unless cement is added inside. As best I can remember those were the recommendations.

    "Lone Gunman"
    In the idea of using Vaseline on connections that was impressive the results you have received. I was thinking about using dielectric grease this time, but never envisioned the results you have received.

    Thoughts?
     
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  7. turbosat

    turbosat SatelliteGuys Family

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    Muffler clamp wouldn't crush the bottom of the pipe unless you tighten it too much, probably a good idea to keep the pole from possibly twisting in the wind. I hardly ever do it here because the wind hardly blows enough to tip over a empty dixie cup. Well, except when we get tornados, in which case the dish will be the last thing I worry about!
    *If you find you can't get 125 after you install, then maybe be watching for a 2nd dish to aim at it, if its a must-have for you. There's other places to see pbs, like 87w, or 103-Cband.
     
    #7
  8. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    Holding dish up

    How do people support their KU satellite on the pole, without motor, to be able to adjust the dish to different locations without having to constantly hold dish up in place?

    Due to cloud cover this morning I only got a short view of the moon, but the height of moon was a surprise. So I may be in the clear for W125 in the several options of places available that I was considering.

    In the last several years of watching TV generally PBS has been the station to watch consistently, because of poor OTA reception. So PBS with additional channels would be desirable, for news, and informational programs. I am just not familiar with the other stations yet, new journey.
     
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  9. jorgek

    jorgek SatelliteGuys Family

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    KU dishes typically have a bolt through the top of the sleeve that fits over the pole which prevents the dish from sliding down the pole. When you attach the dish to a motor then you do have the issue of the motor and dish assembly sliding down the pole. However all you have to do in this case is snug up the bolts to the pole that supports the assembly.
     
    #9
  10. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    Thanks!
     
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  11. Gray Hair

    Gray Hair Thread Starter Member

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    Microhd use with OTA hook up to TV?

    Would like to know if I need to order anything special with microHD system to combine TV hookup with OTA system?

    Have Zinwell Converter Model ZAT –970A (digital to Analog).
    RCA console type TV bought in 89 with RCA cable connections. RCA connection cables presently plugged into rarely used DVD player.


    Thoughts?
     
    #11
  12. Tron

    Tron SatelliteGuys Family

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    You can use a diplexer to combine OTA and FTA into one cable. I wouldn't recommend it though, since you need one to combine the signals and one to separate them. Each introduces significant loss.
     
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