Satellite Motor Actuator Sensor .. Who the heck knows.

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iBoston

iBoston

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jul 15, 2014
2,604
2,151
North Central
If you have been following me at all, you know i have had an ongoing issue with my actuator not keeping track... The problem is actually getting worse, and its driving me NUTS. I have to figure out what is wrong.

Here is the issue : I am always am short WEST. I guess that makes it easier for me to lock a bird, as i always know which way to nudge the dish. But it is getting so bad, i have to hit the Diseqc move command about 8-10 times to get back on bird. (again, always to the West).

Nothing is loose on the dish. Heck, i have welded just about everything. I have the ASC1 and a Venture MaxiBall. I have the dish grounded to the House Panel Ground. I am using shielded wire. I even have a capacitor between m1/m2 at the motor. Where the heck do i look? Bad cable? (2 years old) Bad ASC1??? Bad senor in the Actuator??? Something else???

I maybe hallucinating, but i do believe the problem is getting progressively worse.

%#$#@ :censored

HELP!!
 
Your shielded wire, where or what end is grounded? It should ONLY be grounded on the actuator end.

It's also possible that the reed switch inside the actuator is being interfered with in some way, that's causing miscounts.

Do you have another actuator you can substitute for a test? That could tell you a LOT, in a very short period of time.
 
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primestar31 said:
Your shielded wire, where or what end is grounded? It should ONLY be grounded on the actuator end.

It's also possible that the reed switch inside the actuator is being interfered with in some way, that's causing miscounts.

Do you have another actuator you can substitute for a test? That could tell you a LOT, in a very short period of time.
Click to expand...


I thought the shielded wire was supposed to be shielded on the driver ASC1 side? That is where it is shielded. I have it grounded to the house ground line.
 
Typically, I ground the shield only on the controller side and leave open on the actuator side. Suggest that it be connected to the controller GND terminal. Grounding on the structure side is typically less problematic.

If the problem only happens when driving one direction and is getting worse, there is likely an increase in rf noise. Could be associated with increased motor load when driving west? Also could be failing reed switch, though this is not likely as the miscounts should in theory happen in either direction. Someone recently mentioned that a dirty contact on anEast/West mechanical switch was producing error counts. Unlikely to be an ASC1 issue as it is simply counting the cycles as presented and would not be affected by direction of travel. Running a servo? If so, notice any servo stutter when the polarity changes or while the dish moves? Servo motors can cause considerable rf noise. Do you have a scope to see if noise is present and increases when driving west?

Since you already have a capacitor across the motor terminals to filter typical noise, you might changing values or different suppression circuit.

Has the wiring been compromised?I would start by running a temporary sensor wire to test.
 
iBoston said:
If you have been following me at all, you know i have had an ongoing issue with my actuator not keeping track... The problem is actually getting worse, and its driving me NUTS. I have to figure out what is wrong.

Here is the issue : I am always am short WEST. I guess that makes it easier for me to lock a bird, as i always know which way to nudge the dish. But it is getting so bad, i have to hit the Diseqc move command about 8-10 times to get back on bird. (again, always to the West).

Nothing is loose on the dish. Heck, i have welded just about everything. I have the ASC1 and a Venture MaxiBall. I have the dish grounded to the House Panel Ground. I am using shielded wire. I even have a capacitor between m1/m2 at the motor. Where the heck do i look? Bad cable? (2 years old) Bad ASC1??? Bad senor in the Actuator??? Something else???

I maybe hallucinating, but i do believe the problem is getting progressively worse.

%#$#@ :censored

HELP!!
Click to expand...

I know you said everything is tight at the dish, but have you considered wear and tear on the acme nut inside the actuator tube? On the end of the tube closest to the dish, there's an acme nut through which the lead screw runs. Some actuators, especially Von Weise, uses nylon in the construction of this component and over time the wear on the threads progressively gets worse, leading to the dish land slightly off. I've seen them actually wear so bad that the threads gave way letting the dish fall against the pole.

Something else is dirty electricity. The electric where I live is so bad I had to install a line conditioner. Not only does it regulate the voltage, it filters and cleans up the electric before it reaches my equipment. Any device that keeps count is susceptible line spikes, EMI/RFI interference. I like pulled my hair out trying to eliminate ground loops in my security system. A refrigerator, freezer or other device utilizing motors can reek havoc on devices that utilize reed switches, hall effect sensors or optical sensors to keep track of numeric counts.

It may be somewhere to start if you haven't considered this already. I know what a pain these problems can be, and expecting the power company to fix their problem is like expecting the sun to reverse direction. As Titanium mentioned, a scope would be useful. That way you could monitor it when the dish is moving in order to see what's amiss with the power. You may also want to check the cycle rate if you have a scope on it. I've seen it vary considerably in some areas around here. Hope this helps.
 
Wear and tear should NOT be an issue. The actuator is less than 4 months old. I will double check the wires under the entertainment center, but the ASC1 should already be hooked into a line conditioner that i bought for most of my expensive electronics about 5 years ago (including our fridge)

I do NOT have a servo.

Yea, I will try to run a tap to see if its the servo wires. I don't have any additional shielded wire i can use unless i can use an RG6 cable? Otherwise, ill have to buy something.. Any suggestions on that? Ebay Links?

I thought about the sensor, but why in the world would east/west make a difference with that??? Right?? Its just spikes when the magnet goes by.. Of course, i would think the same thing with the sensor wires too???

The actuator mount is on the west side of the dish. I rarely push the dish past East 87, and it still does the problem, so I wouldn't think its motor strain.
 
18/2 shielded cable is available by the foot at most hardware stores. Sold typically for home security applications. Home Depot sells it for .27 ft. or on a reel. Available in stranded (I prefer) or solid.
 
I ground mine on the actuator side, just because that appears to help more in cases of increased RF noise. At least it has for me.

Much as I love Venture actuators, and I seriously doubt there's anything wrong with it, installing a temp spare actuator would tell him the most, in the shortest period of time. Perhaps he doesn't have a spare available. I myself keep 3 around at all times. You never know...

For trying new wire, I use this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerrowire-500-ft-22-2-Grey-Security-Alarm-Wire-225-0022J/202206431
 
iBoston said:
Wear and tear should NOT be an issue. The actuator is less than 4 months old. I will double check the wires under the entertainment center, but the ASC1 should already be hooked into a line conditioner that i bought for most of my expensive electronics about 5 years ago (including our fridge)

I do NOT have a servo.

Yea, I will try to run a tap to see if its the servo wires. I don't have any additional shielded wire i can use unless i can use an RG6 cable? Otherwise, ill have to buy something.. Any suggestions on that? Ebay Links?

I thought about the sensor, but why in the world would east/west make a difference with that??? Right?? Its just spikes when the magnet goes by.. Of course, i would think the same thing with the sensor wires too???

The actuator mount is on the west side of the dish. I rarely push the dish past East 87, and it still does the problem, so I wouldn't think its motor strain.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've covered nearly everything. Does your satellite cable by any chance run near to the power entrance for your house? If a cable is positioned just right near a power drop, the cable going to the dish can act like a secondary coil in a transformer. I know it sounds impossible, but a single wire running parallel to a power cable or wire carrying a load can create enough stray voltage to make electronics go bonkers.

I know a guy who got the crap knocked out of him taking ahold of a length of copper pipe hanging in his garage. As it turned out, they had just installed a 720KV power line across the road from his house. The copper pipe was hanging parallel to the power line. At this point with everything you've done, it's a fishing expedition to locate the problem.
 
1 - check for excessive play in the actuator action. Push/ pull the dish trying to extend the actuator, and pull to retract. Any movement of the actuator inner tube? (My almost 30 yr old Von Weisse has this somewhat)
2 - Open the actuator and watch the magnet wheel. Does it get closer to the sensor going one direction, and move away when going the other direction? Might just have to shim the switch.
 
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The only thing our stores around here keep stocked are the 'Order Forms' . I bought some 18/2 shielded alarm cable on Ebay.. Ill get it in a few days. There is no play when pushing/pulling. That was a good idea watching the magnet wheel. Ill order another actuator. I need another one anyway for when i repair my other 12' dish.

The cable might run parallel with a 12/2 romex line that feeds the outside, but that outside outlet is never used. Wouldn't you have to have current running through it to interfere??
 
iBoston said:
Wouldn't you have to have current running through it to interfere??
Click to expand...
Normally yes, but if they is enough moisture in the wire or outlet to cause it to have have micro arcs, it would cause interference.
Turn the breaker off feeding the outside outlet.
 
I was wrong. It is not sharing space with a powered line, just RG6 cables. Okay, i got the new wire today, and ran it. I used the old line to pull through the new line. It's in and running. Give me a couple days now to find out if its keeping any better track now. Cross your fingers...
 
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Well $%^$@ :no

Problem is STILL there!!!!!!!!!! I went through the trouble of re-setting all satellites between 83 and 139. I then went back to 91w and i was off by 7 nudges. Same exact problem.

I am almost at the end of my rope.

I have two ASC1. I am going to try swapping them out to see if that makes any difference. If that doesn't do anything, I have a new venture actuator coming soon, and ill throw that one in to see if that makes a difference. I've had this problem so long, I have almost given up on Cband. I am SOO tired of resyncing the birds. :mad
 
Back to basics. I am sure you posted this a some point in some thread but....
The pole that is in the ground, is it cemented really well?
Is it a good stout pole?
Is it still perfectly plumb over time?
Does OD of the pole fit the ID of the dish mount good and tight?
 
KE4EST said:
Back to basics. I am sure you posted this a some point in some thread but....
The pole that is in the ground, is it cemented really well?
Is it a good stout pole?
Is it still perfectly plumb over time?
Does OD of the pole fit the ID of the dish mount good and tight?
Click to expand...

I will go double check everything to make sure its still plumb. I am sure it is, but at this point, ill check EVERYTHING. It is in a boatload of concrete that goes down over 4 feet deep below the frost line and about 5x5 foot block. As for everything else, ill get back with you.

But, it tracks the arc perfectly. I can get very good quality from 37.5w all the way to 139. I would believe that if the pole was leaning or pole mount issues, that i would not have the great arc tracking.
 
Yes, I assumed you most likely did a proper job on the concrete. I am just thinking out loud, since you still are having a count issue.
Reason I asked, was when I had one of those $69 specials, 6 footers up. The mount needed a 2 5/8 inch post. Could not find one anywhere.
So I had wrapped a 2 3/8 pole with metal flashing and tried shims and everything. If I got it pretty tight it would be fine, but it wouldn't take a few days and it would be off a few clicks again.
 
What voltage does the ASC1 drive the actuator with? Is it possible the actuator runs too fast and that some "counts" are being skipped because they're coming at too high of frequency? Not too high of frequency for the ASC1 but too quick for the actuator contacts to keep up with making-breaking? You mentioned that this usually only happens in one direction (correct?), is it missing counts in the lightly loaded direction because the actuator is running faster "downhill"?

If you have a large resistor, like ~10? 10W or a 12V automotive light bulb (1156 or 1157) to temporarily wire in series to the motor, you can slow it down to see if the counts return.

Could it be a weak magnet in the count wheel? Weak reed switch?

Just thinking out loud...
 
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Does anyone else find merit in Gpflepsen's post? I did notice that the ASC1 drives the VENTURE motor much faster than the old motor. There might be something to that. How would i wire in a permanent solution to slow down the motor movement? Ebay link?
 
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