Samsung benefits even more off the Iphone X

I used MP3 players from Diamond Rio, Intel and Dell, which all preceded the iPod, and thought each of them was better. I went for the iPod because of it's larger capacity, but had I done my research and discovered you needed iTunes as the way to interface with the iPod, I never would have bought it. iTunes was without a doubt one of the worst PC applications I've ever had the displeasure of using and it was the worst media player I ever used. I ended up using a third party plug in for Winamp for syncing music with the iPod. What's wrong with good ole' drag and drop? A lot of the success of the iPod can be attributed to the success of the iTunes Music Store. I have a Sony Walkman Android based MP3 Player that completely destroys the iPod and the EQ settings don't distort the sound.

There was RIM with the Blackberry, there was HP and others with Windows Pocket PC phone prior to the iPhone. They didn't have traction because they weren't advertised. No one knew they existed except businesses and geeks. Apple marketed their devices and gained traction. Like I said Apple is just a marketing company, they design things for others to build using components that are sourced from some of their competitors and are wrapped up in a pretty package. That is all Apple is.

For computers, the entire tech world goes gaga every handful of years when Apple releases a new Mac Pro 'workstation'. I remember when they released that garbage can looking thing. You could easily get a CTO build of a comparable or better spec'd Dell Precision or HP Z Station for hundreds less and a wider variety of Core i7 and Xeon processors to chose from.

I have no attachment to Microsoft's non-OS related software. As a simple blue collar, redneck who enjoys technology, but not working in an office type setting, I have no love for MS Office and all the headaches it gives me. PowerPoint is just a way to put people to sleep, I couldn't use Excel to add 2 + 2 if my life depended on it, and Outlook may be fine for corporate email, but the rest of the nonsence forget about it. If I ever get to the point where I need a calendar to remind me to do something, I want to be taken out of this world. I'm kinda forced into learning this stuff. In the going on 5 years I've been in IT, I never once touched an Outlook calendar. Our new Sales Manager believes in all of this newfangled junk, wants calendar sharing, room calendars for conference rooms and classrooms, schedule overviews. While I have no problem setting up this stuff on the server side, I find it confusing as hell as on the user side. If I was his subordinate, I'd be fired instantly, because I would flat out refuse to put things in a calendar. My Outlook calendar is the thing I have in between my two ears.

If it wasn't for work, I wouldn't even use email for much of anything, I really have no need for it. I have a GMail account solely for Android and Google Services related stuff, I have an Outlook.com account solely for Xbox and other Microsoft related stuff like Windows Insider info. I'm lame and use my Time Warner email for things like Amazon, utilities and banking and I have an email address from HughesNet that I never check, plus a few throw away that go unchecked. Besides my two work email accounts, as of right now, all four of my email inboxes site 100% empty. I save nothing. I view what little email I get and delete it immediately. If it's important, which it hardly ever is, I'll print it to PDF and sick it on a flash drive.

I live for the behind the scenes stuff. I've used Microsoft SharePoint before, and think it is completely asinine from an end users perspective. But I would love configure and play with SharePoint Server one day. Just like I love playing with Exchange, but can't stand using Outlook.

navychop said:

When I ran two servers for my previous employer, I found supporting iPhones with MS Exchange trivial. MS phones- "too hard." Bizarre.

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You could fill a large wiki with what Microsoft does wrong or doesn't know about groupware. What is bizarre is that the industry is still putting up with Exchange.

PDAs did not cut it. I had one. Yuck!

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Apple proved that when the Newton went down in flames.

You think Microsoft would EVER have invented an iPhone? Not even with their 50,000 monkeys in a room approach

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Microsoft hasn't "invented" (nor innovated) much of anything in their long and storied history. They have only a couple of products that were developed mostly in-house. Much of their popular software was "assimilated" or made the only choice by buying the competition and shutting it down (or suing them into submission).

APPLE made the iPhone and iPod and clones market.

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If they made the clone market it was because they missed the mark and/or asked way to much indulgence (and money) to use their products. Let's not forget that Apple's "technology lead" continues to slip away as time goes on and with it, their market shares. They may get all the press by pandering to the press but that doesn't equate to real innovation and giving the people what they want when they want it.

Microsoft made the mouse popular, along with Apple (who stupidly made single button "standard") from Xerox PARC.

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Microsoft had nothing to do with the popularity of the mouse. The one positive that they did offer was not stubbing their toe on offering a single button model. Until Windows 95, Microsoft Windows was little more than a mouse-based implementation of DOSSHELL. The Commodore 64 with GEM, the Atari ST with GEM and the Amiga with AmigaOS were much more like a true library-based operating system that didn't require wading through a CLI to get to the desktop.

Apple appeals to a market. Android appeals (less every day) to budget buyers.

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It seems like both sides have more than their share of ostriches with their heads in the sand who are dead certain that the other side hasn't progressed in any way since they last experienced them. This is the real shame. The Android people are perhaps less subject to this burial as the general press makes such a huge deal of everything that Apple does.

I was reflecting on increasing Android prices. At least at the high end.

navychop said:

I was reflecting on increasing Android prices. At least at the high end.

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Are you reflecting on the additional or upgraded features you get when you pay those amounts?

Much of the stuff that Apple added to the iPhone X is surpassed by what you're getting in the most costly Androids. Eight-core processors, AMOLED displays, higher pixel densities, 20+ MP cameras with OIS and 4K screens aren't new to Android but Apple is just beginning to show a willingness to incorporate some of these advanced features into iPhones (and starting out at the $1000 level).

Imagine what Apple will charge for something the likes of the Xperia XZ Premium (less the headphone jack, expandable memory and USB port of course). I'm betting it will be upwards of twice the money such that you're paying $600 just for the Apple experience.

There's a lot more to a camera than just the pixel count.

But I agree about Androids now offering features first.

But as somebody else alluded to, Apple isn't selling cell phones. They're selling, basically, iOS and its consistency. And after having to mess with that Android LG-7, I shall require quite some convincing to put up with that every day.

navychop said:

And after having to mess with that Android LG-7, I shall require quite some convincing to put up with that every day.

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That's where my comment about ostriches came from. If the last piece you dealt with is five years old (as the LG-7 is), it isn't fair to compare it with Apple's current best efforts or assume that everything that was wrong is still wrong. There have been four major Android releases since the LG-7 was introduced and LG has learned a lot in the interim.

About that much-ballyhooed consistency: Dive into the details of iOS 11: Is Apple still detail-oriented?

navychop said:

There's a lot more to a camera than just the pixel count.

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To be sure. Then again, who really needs a >8MP camera? 4MP will usually get you respectable 8x10s if you compose well.

OIS on phones and tablets is a big boon even if you don't have the most awesome image sensor but Apple makes you pay the premium of about the cost of a Sony a6000 camera kit (a really bitchin' mirrorless camera) to get OIS.

How do people put up with smartphone cameras? I'm not much of photographer, a complete dummy when it comes to digital photos and video and very rarely take pictures, but with the lack of a real optical zoom, smartphones never did much for me. I had a few point and shoot digital cameras throughout the years and never bothered to use them much with their paltry 3 or 4x optical zoom, and I'm sure as hell not going to use something with no zoom. Two years ago I bought my first real camera, a Sony mirrorless with a 16-50 mm lens and last year bought the 55-210 mm lens for it. After experiencing real zoom capabilities for the first time ever I don't think I could ever take a picture of anything I care about with a smartphone again. In fact, I wouldn't mind going back to some of my road trip locations, just so I could re-take a few pictures.

EarDemon, it's been said the best camera is the one you have with you. I have a Nikon Coolpix P500 that I will take on vacation and when I know I'm going to want to take "good" pictures, but the camera in my iPhone 6 surprises me on how good a photo sensor can be that's not much bigger than a pencil eraser. But I don't carry the Nikon and so I use the iPhone when something pops up that I want to document, like this rainbow I grabbed in Panorama Mode.


But it all falls apart when you want to zoom in and the lack of Raw image support means a muddy JPEG mess. I'm looking at the Sony RX10 IV as a replacement for the Nikon, though...

That certainly is true. In my case that would be my Alpha. I keep my camera bag with the body and all of the accessories in the center console of my second row most of the year, except for the winter months.

EarDemon said:

How do people put up with smartphone cameras? I'm not much of photographer, a complete dummy when it comes to digital photos and video and very rarely take pictures, but with the lack of a real optical zoom, smartphones never did much for me. I had a few point and shoot digital cameras throughout the years and never bothered to use them much with their paltry 3 or 4x optical zoom, and I'm sure as hell not going to use something with no zoom. Two years ago I bought my first real camera, a Sony mirrorless with a 16-50 mm lens and last year bought the 55-210 mm lens for it. After experiencing real zoom capabilities for the first time ever I don't think I could ever take a picture of anything I care about with a smartphone again. In fact, I wouldn't mind going back to some of my road trip locations, just so I could re-take a few pictures.

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No doubt a real camera is a better choice but unless you are really into photography or video (like me) you don't have anything more than a phone camera when the moment pops up. But today's latest phones do have some amazing quality considering the tiny sensor and lens. We are now even seeing twin lens / cameras one for wide angle and one for telephoto. Plus OIS which is far superior to DIS that can only be used if you sacrifice resolution. My Sony Xperia has a 19Mpixel full 4K camera so the image quality can be easily cropped and zoomed for video production work. My wife's iphone SE is high enough quality to mesh with my HD video projects now too and I can't detect pixel issues even on my 4K UHD monitor.

The biggest problem I have with the phone cameras is the ergonomics and form factor. A real camera is always better in that respect as the phone camera has the camera as an after thought to the phone for voice and text as primary. This can make using it as a camera often awkward. I never get my finger over the lens of my real cameras but probably get the phone camera upside down and a finger covering the lens too many times. I see that and have to move or flip the phone and now I may have missed the action. Tripod mounting is awkward. Plus I love to do 3D video productions and no phone camera can do 3D. Therefore I carry a Panasonic 3D1 small phone size 3D camera in a belt pouch when I am traveling.

Foxbat said:

the best camera is the one you have with you.

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Absolutely! But with all the phone camera pictures, most end up socked away on a cloud server only to be seen once. A few end up on a facebook page or other social media. My iphone camera is always with me and when I need to document something I pull it out, shoot a few pictures, select the best one and then email it to myself for later use. But when I travel, I carry 13 cameras that all do something unique. I even have a pair of eye glasses that has a 1 hour recording time in 1080p plus audio. But I may need to upgrade those because the camera is only 8Mpixels which is not real good quality by today's standards. But those glasses allow me to capture video and nobody can tell as the glasses look normal and the camera is not even visible.

So Don, when are you going to take this hobby seriously?

You have to assume that Samsung's wireless division gets better pricing than Apple does. Apple's hands are tied and the more up-to-date their phones become, the more beholden to Samsung they'll be.

I support both Android and Apple. Usually users with Apple products are the clueless about technology and will believe all the hype about their products. The Android users are knowledgable about the product. Android tablets have come a long way. I will never buy the expensive price of an iPad compare to the Android tablet.

Sean Mota said:

.....Android tablets have come a long way. I will never buy the expensive price of an iPad compare to the Android tablet.

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Well, I had to go check out that claim.

I found a LOT of Android tablets for less than $200. But the screens tend to be around 8". Then I found a Galaxy Tab A for $249. 10.1" screen. Memory card slot. Little more than half the price of an iPad. I'd really have to seriously consider that if I got a tablet.

What shall I do with this egg I have wiped off my face?

Regarding Android tablets, stick with the 'top' brands, IMO. We bought our youngest a Lenovo tablet for Christmas last year and less than 9 months later, I've taken my wife's Galaxy Tab A tablet, rooted it, de-bloated it, and have given it to her. It's "white" and she calls it an 'iPad'. We've corrected her a couple of times but she keeps calling it that....

Reason for getting rid of the Lenovo ? The screen 'touch' is just horrible. Our daughter has gotten used to it but if if my wife or I try and use it, we can't without jabbing or poking at the screen. The Samsung is worlds better ! Another annoying thing with the Lenovo is you can only access notifications from the lockscreen. It does NOT swipe down from the top to view notifications.

Sean Mota said:

I support both Android and Apple. Usually users with Apple products are the clueless about technology and will believe all the hype about their products. The Android users are knowledgable about the product. Android tablets have come a long way. I will never buy the expensive price of an iPad compare to the Android tablet.

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Most likely, that is because you hang with Android geeks and barely communicate with Apple power users. My daughter's MIL and her one son (an Apple certified engineer) really know the tech side of Apple products and how to integrate everything for Apple environment living. The first task one has to accomplish when talking to them is you have to become bilingual. Apple has it's own tech speak. If you don't do Apple speak, you won't understand what they are talking about. They aren't really clueless about technology, just that they only understand the Apple environment to the level that it works for their needs. Do they really need to know USB versions? Or do they only need to know one, the Lightning cable for Mac sync or charging?

While I pride myself, today, as a bilingual tech person, being able to objectively look at all the products available and do minor repair on both, I can get the best of both communities. When I travel, I take both the ipad and the Surface Pro. They each do things that the other can't do. I also now have an android phone, a Sony Xperia XZ Premium (T-Mobile Sim) and the iphone 6+. I probably wouldn't have an iphone, if it wouldn't be for the Apple watch. Having had the Android versions, there is just no debate on this, the Apple watch is by far the superior product, but the phones are superior in their own specialty. As a communication appliance, the iphone wins, but for video work and 360VR, the Sony wins even when matching up against them iphoneX spec.

Ever notice how Apple never runs a commercial about the iPhones ability as a phone? That's because it's average at best. ALL that their commercials emphasize is the camera and then primarily the gimmicks. There used to be a saying back in my hot rod days; "If it don't go, chrome it", meaning if it can't perform make it appear to by prettying it up. That's Apple. My 3 year old LG G3 runs circles around an Apple and at way less than half the cost. And as for the camera; 13mpx, dual LED flash, 4K HDR, laser auto-focus, image stab, voice activation, with a QHD display (1440x2560). Now if folks want to spend $800-1000 just so they can say "I got an Apple!", more power to them. I can find better things to spend the $600 I saved on.