GOES 16 GRB downlink vs GVAR

KWX · Feb 15, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
...

A reminder that anybody that uses satellite services should know this. That at certain times of the day the satellite gets eclipsed by the sun. Meaning the sun is almost or is in line with the satellite so the result may cause loss of data or even loss of signal lock.
KWX signal issue most likely is not related to that.
Though since the filters he may have solved it.

With that taken care of..
Thanks for the complements
Looks is one thing as long as it works well is what will count, looks can be improved later.

Just make sure the aluminum tape is making contact, I don't know if the adhesive would cause to be that much of a barrier but if it is, then you will have a poor circuit for shielding. Use the OHM meter to determine this.
I checked mine and (where I didn't tape it) found a low resistance path so it's the way I want it.
If it shows "open" or very high resistance, you need to redo it.

A solar panel should be a fine supply but make sure that it don't have any ripple on the DC.
Most likely there is a battery in line so that "should" take that away. Ripple is an enemy of the feed electronics and can cause all kinds of issues that result in data errors. Same is a bad filtered wall wart.

...

True, can't forget about the eclipses.

What would be a good rough estimate on resistance I should be aiming for? As I inferred from your notes on the pictures, you wrapped the foil around the box but also ensured the SMA connector of the NOOELEC are not touching the foil.

In regards the solar panel, correct, I have a 12V battery that I'm using to feed power to the LNA.

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 16, 2018

N6BY said:
Are you using 1/2 of a guide wavelength or something else? Just curious.

Ya, that's about what it came out to. As I stated awhile back, when I did testing that was the place I found that worked well for me. I would recommend that you guys stick with the quarter guide wave placement as the shorter waveguide you are using get that little better unwanted mode rejection. Seems to work as good there.

KWX said:
Question...See pictures.

You want...

The electronics of the Nooelec are not able to touch the foil, to cause a short or damage any of the components. You want the connectors to make good contact. Just as the UTRLA LNA there.

KWX · Feb 16, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
Ya, that's about what it came out to. As I stated awhile back, when I did testing that was the place I found that worked well for me. I would recommend that you guys stick with the quarter guide wave placement as the shorter waveguide you are using get that little better unwanted mode rejection. Seems to work as good there.

You want...

The electronics of the Nooelec are not able to touch the foil, to cause a short or damage any of the components. You want the connectors to make good contact. Just as the UTRLA LNA there.

Nice, thanks very much for the illustration.

KWX · Feb 16, 2018

A small update, just in case it helps anyone that might have forgotten to check (like I did

).

If you're using a power surge protector in your coax run, then check it, since in my case it was the source of my GRB signal problems that I just discovered between yesterday and today. It all came about me finding the selection in the DD card Control Center software which thankfully tells you the Strength, Quality, SNR, Offset, and BER of your signal while GRBStreamer is running (this is the key part - an application has to be using the DD card). I noticed some weird drops in the SNR/quality that correlated to GRBStreamer dropping the streaming. I moved to check the lines just in case the line was cut/open/etc... and found the darn surge protector not rated for the signal range I was working with. As you can figured by now, I rightfully so removed it

and look at that, I gained another 1dB and now is more stable than before... no random loss in signal nor getting those random sync errors specially in the late morning / afternoon hours... so keeping fingers crossed.

Unfortunately, didn't help GRBStreamer lock on the spot without the now so common, reset the coax cable on the receiver to allow it to lock... this is for now only true for the DD card. For TBS so far, you have to lower the CN in the range of 6 to 6.5 to allow it to lock and then you can move back to the optimum position and enjoy the stream... hope other version of TBS have better lock ability.

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 17, 2018

KWX said:
Nice, thanks very much for the illustration.

Glad I could help.

KWX said:
DD card Control Center software which thankfully tells you the Strength, Quality, SNR, Offset, and BER of your signal while GRBStreamer is running

Please give the details (colored) of each, That's good comparison detail.

KWX said:
and found the darn surge protector not rated for the signal range I was working with

When you state that, do you mean it wasn't rated for the frequency of use, power?? Too much too little?? Details please.

KWX said:
For TBS so far, you have to lower the CN in the range of 6 to 6.5 to allow it to lock and then you can move back to the optimum position and enjoy the stream

This puzzles me and I hope we find a solution as that shouldn't happen.

These very simple things can cause big issues, It sometimes takes several lookovers to notice it. Good catch.

N6BY · Feb 17, 2018

KWX said:
...
Unfortunately, didn't help GRBStreamer lock on the spot without the now so common, reset the coax cable on the receiver to allow it to lock... this is for now only true for the DD card. For TBS so far, you have to lower the CN in the range of 6 to 6.5 to allow it to lock and then you can move back to the optimum position and enjoy the stream... hope other version of TBS have better lock ability.

I had the same experience with my TBS6983 -- had to lower the CN to the 6 to 6.5 range to get a lock. I think this problem is somehow related to NOAA's cramming two different signals on the same frequency, but with different polarities.

Good to know that DD's signal quality utility works while another program is running.

I haven't been able to try my DD card yet. My flu turned into pneumonia for a few days. Got over that today and took a motorcycle ride, only to have my front brake and wheel lockup and throw me off the bike. Took a tumble on the asphalt and am all scraped up.

KWX · Feb 17, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
Glad I could help.

Please give the details (colored) of each, That's good comparison detail.

When you state that, do you mean it wasn't rated for the frequency of use, power?? Too much too little?? Details please.

This puzzles me and I hope we find a solution as that shouldn't happen.

These very simple things can cause big issues, It sometimes takes several lookovers to notice it. Good catch.

Here's a screenshot of the details the DD Control Center gives you on the locked signal:

Just ensure GRBStreamer or any other applications is running first and then launch the DD Control Center (for best results). Now, in order to avoid a BSOD, system freeze, or unexpected reboot, you'll want to reverse the order of closing the application... first close DD Control Center and finally close GRBStreamer.

In regards the surge protector (in my case an in-line protector), it's rated to work between 5MHz to 1500MHz, so too little.

KWX · Feb 17, 2018

N6BY said:
I had the same experience with my TBS6983 -- had to lower the CN to the 6 to 6.5 range to get a lock. I think this problem is somehow related to NOAA's cramming two different signals on the same frequency, but with different polarities.

Good to know that DD's signal quality utility works while another program is running.

I haven't been able to try my DD card yet. My flu turned into pneumonia for a few days. Got over that today and took a motorcycle ride, only to have my front brake and wheel lockup and throw me off the bike. Took a tumble on the asphalt and am all scraped up.

I won't be surprised that you're not wrong on NOAA's effort to fit more in less... lol.

Darn it, if it's not one thing, then is the other. Glad you weren't going at high enough speeds to really cause some serious injuries.

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 17, 2018

N6BY said:
Got over that today and took a motorcycle ride, only to have my front brake and wheel lockup and throw me off the bike. Took a tumble on the asphalt and am all scraped up.

Keep it up Brett, we can call you Evil Knievel.
All joking aside I'm glad you're OK. That could have ended much worse. Just makes me hurt thinking of it.

Thanks for the screenshot there KWX. Good info.
Ya, that surge protector is out of frequency range.
Next my Saturday....

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 17, 2018

Well, finally got back out to the dish to do some tests.
Started out with SDR and the Novra data receiver to to make sure that everything was working as it should.

After a little adjusting of the dish my C/N was about 7.8 dB and stayed there. Also the Novra receiver showed that my signal level was within spec of the TBS receiver. Earlier tests with the signal below the receiver's specs showed a higher C/N.
With this all determined I went ahead and opened the TBS IP program.
I found that interestingly enough the TBS receiver shows lock on the front panel but the software doesn't.
The software will only show lock if:
You click the lock button and
disconnect the coax and reconnect it.
Then it shows locked and It will lock every time you do that.

The good news is the TBS receiver shows the same amount of signal that the Novra does so the TBS receiver seems to be pretty good.
Let it run for over an hour on the TBS IP program and it didn't lose lock once.
Time to try it with GRBStreamer.
This is where the good news stopped.
Got the laptop out with Win. 7 Pro.
GRB streamer sees the TBS receiver and with the same issues of clicking "lock" and disconnecting and reconnecting the coax it would lock.
Even though it shows lock on the front panel of the receiver.
It showed the same amount of signal that the TBS IP program showed.
But when I would try to "stream" all I got was errors.
Baseband frames

CADU Frames

I suspect that the receiver is adding something to the stream. But from that is all I can tell.

KWX · Feb 17, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
Well, finally got back out to the dish to do some tests.
Started out with SDR and the Novra data receiver to to make sure that everything was working as it should.
View attachment 131401
After a little adjusting of the dish my C/N was about 7.8 dB and stayed there. Also the Novra receiver showed that my signal level was within spec of the TBS receiver. Earlier tests with the signal below the receiver's specs showed a higher C/N.
With this all determined I went ahead and opened the TBS IP program.
I found that interestingly enough the TBS receiver shows lock on the front panel but the software doesn't.
The software will only show lock if:
You click the lock button and
disconnect the coax and reconnect it.
Then it shows locked and It will lock every time you do that.
View attachment 131405
The good news is the TBS receiver shows the same amount of signal that the Novra does so the TBS receiver seems to be pretty good.
Let it run for over an hour on the TBS IP program and it didn't lose lock once.
Time to try it with GRBStreamer.
This is where the good news stopped.
Got the laptop out with Win. 7 Pro.
GRB streamer sees the TBS receiver and with the same issues of clicking "lock" and disconnecting and reconnecting the coax it would lock.
Even though it shows lock on the front panel of the receiver.
It showed the same amount of signal that the TBS IP program showed.
But when I would try to "stream" all I got was errors.
Baseband frames
View attachment 131403
CADU Frames
View attachment 131404
I suspect that the receiver is adding something to the stream. But from that is all I can tell.

Interesting. I know the TBS5925 doesn't show a green lock light at all, even though it "locks". Try moving the dish so the CN is between 6 and 6.5, so you don't have to unplug/plug the coax as it should lock automatically, then try to enable streaming and there should be some errors below 6.5 as we already know but as you move the dish back to 7.8 then you should start seeing those sync errors subside. Another thought, would be to auto lock between 6 and 6.5 as mentioned above but don't start streaming until you reposition the dish back to 7.8 and then start streaming and see if that makes a difference.

N6BY · Feb 17, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
...
I suspect that the receiver is adding something to the stream. But from that is all I can tell.

I think the problem is in your streamreader.ini file. You need to make sure to use the .ini file from GRBStreamer, not the one that comes with streamreader.dll

N6BY · Feb 17, 2018

Your streamreader.ini file should look as follows. The key differences between this and the stock streamreader.ini are 'NoPidFilter=1' and 'FrameMode=1' are uncommented (enabled).

[StreamReader]

Log=1
;Enable log

NoPidFilter=1
; Disable PID filtering

LNBPower=0
; Disable LNB power. Default - LNB power enabled.

LNBPwrOff=1
; Power-off LNB on stop. Default - not power-off LNB on stop

HWControl=1
VoltBoost=1
FrameMode=1

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 18, 2018

KWX said:
Try moving the dish so the CN is between 6 and 6.5, so you don't have to unplug/plug the coax as it should lock automatically

I moved the dish off/on the bird and the software will not auto lock, must disconnect coax and reconnect it.
But again is shows lock on the front panel when moved back on the bird.

N6BY said:
Your streamreader.ini file should look as follows. The key differences between this and the stock streamreader.ini are 'NoPidFilter=1' and 'FrameMode=1' are uncommented (enabled).

Checked the file and it's the same as you posted above.
It's not the one the come with the RAR files.
I have a log file if that will be of any help.

KWX · Feb 18, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
I moved the dish off/on the bird and the software will not auto lock, must disconnect coax and reconnect it.
But again is shows lock on the front panel when moved back on the bird.

Checked the file and it's the same as you posted above.
It's not the one the come with the RAR files.
I have a log file if that will be of any help.

I know I got the same behavior as you when it came to 90% to 100% sync errors. It was due to a firmware/driver problem (in Windows 7) and also try different ports (USB or PCIe).

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 18, 2018

KWX said:
I know I got the same behavior as you when it came to 90% to 100% sync errors. It was due to a firmware/driver problem (in Windows 7) and also try different ports (USB

I remember reading that, But you got some good BBF's.
In my case I got no good BB data. I know that the signal level is fine. But I'm wondering if somewhere the receiver is adding headers to the USB stream.
I think there is one more USB port on that laptop but that's all.
Otherwise waiting for Brett's opinion on this.
This receiver for some reason may not work for this....

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 18, 2018

To add to what KWX posted awhile back.
I have had no issues with loading any of the drivers on the Win 7 pro machine. The only issue that came up was was Windows defender warned me of Brett's program when it was opened as it saw it as a port being opened.
I disabled the firewall as I tested to make shure that wasn't a problem.

N6BY · Feb 18, 2018

In TBS Recorder there is an option to save BB Frames. In order to see whats going on with the 5927, I think it would be good to make about a 15 second recording to a file. Just send me the file and I can examine it to see what is wrong with the data stream.

GOES 12 GVAR user · Feb 19, 2018

N6BY said:
In TBS Recorder there is an option to save BB Frames. In order to see whats going on with the 5927, I think it would be good to make about a 15 second recording to a file.

Brett you read my mind. I will do that. I will do 2, one on the Win 7 machine and if it will allow me one on the XP machine. That way if there is some weird port comm. issue it should show up. It will be a few days at the least as the weather here has gone cold and windy again.
I assume to send it to your email address that's in your software?

N6BY · Feb 19, 2018

GOES 12 GVAR user said:
Brett you read my mind. I will do that. I will do 2, one on the Win 7 machine and if it will allow me one on the XP machine. That way if there is some weird port comm. issue it should show up. It will be a few days at the least as the weather here has gone cold and windy again.
I assume to send it to your email address that's in your software?

Its too big for my email. Do you have a file sharing service that you can use? Dropbox, etc?

Also, I managed to try my MiniCircuits 90 degree combiner with the 2 probe, round can feed. I got only 4.6 dB. It appears that the septum feed is better. But I have to try to tweak the dish a little more before I will know for certain.

GOES 16 GRB downlink vs GVAR

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