“THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL” GAMES OFFERED IN 4K ON FOX

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I didn't know there was HDR for Non 4k video.

HDR is the real addition here.

If you have a quality 4k set with a Top notch Processor, you'll be fine.

While it is disappointing that it won't be true 4k, I think it will look pretty awesome ...

We'll see on Thursday ...

I can see this as just the beginning and it improving as it goes along.
 
Considering how amazing the Olympics looked in 4k HDR (sourced from 8k HDR).

I was really looking forward to 4k HDR football to see how good the picture was.

Yes, HDR alone will be a huge improvement.

But not the same as recorded as 4k HDR and sent out live.
No upconversion.

I now am wondering if Fox has been doing this with the college football games shown in 4k just without HDR.
Are they really just upconverted 1080P for all the games.
I would guess yes now that the cat is out of the bag for the NFL and it's fake 4k.

bjf
 
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bjf said:
I now am wondering if Fox has been doing this with the college football games shown in 4k just without HDR.
Are they really just upconverted 1080P for all the games.
I would guess yes now that the cat is out of the bag for the NFL and it's fake 4k.

bjf
Click to expand...
Then again, FOX has always been a 720p network ...
I'll take 720P over 1080i all day long, however if they can do 1080p thats better than 720p.

I would have thought they would have been going from 720p to 4k ...
if they can't do that at the moment, 1080p with HDR will have to do till they change to true 4k.
 
Here's another link this one from Fox Sports celebrating the NFL and 4K HDR.

There headline reads "FOX Sports to Deliver Thursday Night Football in 4K Ultra High Definition for the First Time" .

FOX Sports to Deliver Thursday Night Football in 4K Ultra High Definition for the First Time | Fox Sports PressPass

So they are basicallly selling this as real 4k HDR.
But later in the article they say's 1080P upconverted.

Nothing like lying right to our face.

Instead of just saying up front this is 1080P HDR.
Which is still a nice improvement.
They are with big headlines on their own site and for a few weeks been saying they are going to
have 4k HDR.

If I pour a full cup of water into a gallon bucket it will still be just a full cup of water.
I can't tell someone now they have a gallon. Unless I was a snake oil salesmen and swindler.

This is NOT 4k HDR.
Fox Sports and the NFL should NOT be misleading fans and viewers.
Their headlines should not be selling 4k HDR.
They should be saying it's 1080P HDR viewable on your 4k channel.
But stop the lying to the publc Fox Sports.

Isn't this the type of thing you'd expect ESPN to pull. lol
The "world leader in sports". lol

I'm pretty disgusted with the lack of any sports to watch in 4k let alone 4k HDR.
So this blatent lying about having the NFL in 4k HDR pretty damn insulting to viewers.

If Fox Sports and the NFL gets away with this B.S> that you might as well keep waiting for years for
real 4k / 4k HDR live sports.

They will all start doing this cheap option and delay longer and longer the real 4k for US viewers.

1080P / HDR would have been great 5 years ago.

But now that 4k HDR tv's are very affordable this is pathetic move from Fox.
Nothing like going backwards with technology with 8k just around the corner.

bjf
 
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We have had real 4k hdr events from the NBA, the Olympics like you mentioned (which looked amazing since it was filmed with 8k cameras), MLB, college football, World Cup, Premier League, etc.

But I agree. This being upconverted 4k really sucks and I am bummed about this.
 
longhorn23 said:
We have had real 4k hdr events from the NBA, the Olympics like you mentioned (which looked amazing since it was filmed with 8k cameras), MLB, college football, World Cup, Premier League, etc.

But I agree. This being upconverted 4k really sucks and I am bummed about this.
Click to expand...
My question is, did any of that come from FOX ? (NBA, Olympics, we know that the Olympics is NBC)

Sounds like its a FOX issue.
 
Most of Fox events with CFB have been 1080P upconverted to 4K. ESPN produces MNF in 1080P as well, they just don't give it to the end-user. While it's disappointing it's not real 4K, it's better than nothing. I'm hoping that this will lead to the Superbowl being in real 4K. The trucks are out there.
 
goaliebob99 said:
Most of Fox events with CFB have been 1080P upconverted to 4K. ESPN produces MNF in 1080P as well, they just don't give it to the end-user. While it's disappointing it's not real 4K, it's better than nothing. I'm hoping that this will lead to the Superbowl being in real 4K. The trucks are out there.
Click to expand...

As far as we know the Fox games on FS1 that are carried in 4K are real 4K. At least I've never seen anything to the contrary, or anything to suggest it was upconverted. It is the Notre Dame games (and apparently the Thursday night NFL games) that are upconverted.

The Super Bowl isn't going to be in 4K anytime soon, because the local affiliates would scream bloody murder if people aren't watching the local ads they get to insert in the broadcasts because they're watching on some special Directv 4K channel. They make a ton of money on those, they'll demand compensation for lost viewership. Who would make that up to them, given that there's nowhere in the whole 4K chain where any extra money is collected?

Cable/satellite providers aren't able to charge a "4K fee" like they did with the HD fee, and probably never will be able to do because they're already losing customers to cord cutting over the rates being charged so they can't keep layering on fees. They can't charge more for ad time in a 4K broadcast because the Super Bowl being in 4K isn't going to get more people to watch than being in HD. The money has to come out of someone's pockets, and the local affiliates aren't going to let it be theirs.
 
Fox half-assed HD with their pathetic 720p resolution broadcasts. It looked awful a decade ago and it still looks awful today. Fox and ABC look noticeably worse than every other channel. I cringe every time they get the rights to a live event that used to be held by a 1080i network. I just have to hope the NFL has scheduled a bad halftime show performer every time Fox gets the Super Bowl so I don't have to be irritated by having to see it downgraded to 720p.

So it does not surprise me in the least that they are half-assing 4K now.

The move to 4K has often been a sham. 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, or as I like to call it Ultra Upscale-Ray, consists mostly of 1080p HDR content upscaled to 4K. It is the most "upscaled" home video format ever because most movies are still being produced with 2K digital intermediates. It would not surprise me if at least 90% of the titles released on the 4K Blu-ray format have a 2K digital intermediate and only 10% or less are actually native 4K.

Imagine if the successor to DVD consisted of 90% upscaled releases. Imagine if 90% of the Blu-rays available today were actually just 480p videos upscaled to 1080p.

It makes it all the more frustrating that this flat, upscale format was pushed by the industry to be the successor to "3D." Talk about technology taking a step backwards. Never before have I seen a home video format that was inferior to its predecessor yet here we have it with 4K Blu-ray because for any movie that has a 3D Blu-ray version available, the 4K Blu-ray version is inferior to it. It's just not worth giving up stereoscopic 3D and having to go back to flat mode especially when all you're getting is usually just an upscaled 2K digital intermediate anyway. The 4K Blu-ray release of so many movies is no higher of a resolution than the 3D Blu-ray release and it is completely lacking the extra depth that 3D offers thereby making the 4K Blu-ray release an utterly useless cash grab for the uninformed.
 
VictoriaFTA said:
Fox half-assed HD with their pathetic 720p resolution broadcasts. It looked awful a decade ago and it still looks awful today. Fox and ABC look noticeably worse than every other channel. I cringe every time they get the rights to a live event that used to be held by a 1080i network. I just have to hope the NFL has scheduled a bad halftime show performer every time Fox gets the Super Bowl so I don't have to be irritated by having to see it downgraded to 720p.

So it does not surprise me in the least that they are half-assing 4K now.

The move to 4K has often been a sham. 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, or as I like to call it Ultra Upscale-Ray, consists mostly of 1080p HDR content upscaled to 4K. It is the most "upscaled" home video format ever because most movies are still being produced with 2K digital intermediates. It would not surprise me if at least 90% of the titles released on the 4K Blu-ray format have a 2K digital intermediate and only 10% or less are actually native 4K.

Imagine if the successor to DVD consisted of 90% upscaled releases. Imagine if 90% of the Blu-rays available today were actually just 480p videos upscaled to 1080p.

It makes it all the more frustrating that this flat, upscale format was pushed by the industry to be the successor to "3D." Talk about technology taking a step backwards. Never before have I seen a home video format that was inferior to its predecessor yet here we have it with 4K Blu-ray because for any movie that has a 3D Blu-ray version available, the 4K Blu-ray version is inferior to it. It's just not worth giving up stereoscopic 3D and having to go back to flat mode especially when all you're getting is usually just an upscaled 2K digital intermediate anyway. The 4K Blu-ray release of so many movies is no higher of a resolution than the 3D Blu-ray release and it is completely lacking the extra depth that 3D offers thereby making the 4K Blu-ray release an utterly useless cash grab for the uninformed.
Click to expand...
So, you would rather have 1080i vs 720p ?
You do realize that there is 1/3rd MORE INFO being used with 720p than 1080i.

I disagree with most of what your saying here in this post ....

Btw, you DO realize that it will continue to get better, right ...

While, yes, it would be nice to start at the very best to come, but thats not how things really work in the real world.

Did we go from B/W to 1080p HD right away, No ...

4k isn't nearly that big of a step, but like I said, you don't start with the best your going to get ... and your NOT getting 8k or 16k ... period. (your tv could never handle it)
 
Here in Phoenix there isn’t a single channel broadcasting in true 1080i. The stations have added sub-channels left and right. If you have ever viewed 1080i directly from a network satellite feed, it is dramatically better than what we get over the air. Since one cannot tell what detail is missing, no one complains or seems to care.

The same will probably be true of 4K. Most of us here have been able to differentiate between true 4K and unconverted 1080p before we knew that was upconverted! To date I believe that the only unconverted 4K I have seen has been from NBC. It will be interesting to see how Fox Sports 1080p upconverted to 4K will look.
 
So exactly what is the difference?
Al K said:
Here in Phoenix there isn’t a single channel broadcasting in true 1080i. The stations have added sub-channels left and right. If you have ever viewed 1080i directly from a network satellite feed, it is dramatically better than what we get over the air. Since one cannot tell what detail is missing, no one complains or seems to care.

The same will probably be true of 4K. Most of us here have been able to differentiate between true 4K and unconverted 1080p before we knew that was upconverted! To date I believe that the only unconverted 4K I have seen has been from NBC. It will be interesting to see how Fox Sports 1080p upconverted to 4K will look.
Click to expand...

Sent from my SM-G950U using the SatelliteGuys app!
 
slice1900 said:
As far as we know the Fox games on FS1 that are carried in 4K are real 4K. At least I've never seen anything to the contrary, or anything to suggest it was upconverted.
Click to expand...

It's always been 1080P upconverted to 4K. It was never publicly discussed, and the event work orders where this information is not public. This is the way Fox has been doing it for a while. I know the guys who work on the trucks for these broadcasts. The reason I'm told is because of truck availability, although I'm not sure how accurate that is.
 
Jimbo said:
So, you would rather have 1080i vs 720p ?
Click to expand...

Hell yeah dude. If you can't tell the difference in clarity between 720p and 1080i content you need to get your eyes checked. Fox and ESPN/ABC backhauls always look blurry as hell compared to the 1080i backhauls from CBS/Viacom/NBC/Turner/etc. The quality of ESPN's Monday Night Football since they introduced that new 1080p encoder is outstanding compared to their old 720p feeds. The Emmy's looks noticeably worse this year than NBC's prior years coverage thanks to Fox dropping the res down to 720p.

goaliebob99 said:
It's always been 1080P upconverted to 4K. It was never publicly discussed, and the event work orders where this information is not public. This is the way Fox has been doing it for a while. I know the guys who work on the trucks for these broadcasts. The reason I'm told is because of truck availability, although I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen most of those backhauls are native 4K. You can tell when they are doing some upscaling because whatever weird upscaling algorithm FS1's truck is using looks awful:



What the heck is this? Why is it so blocky? What's all this aliasing? It's like they're upscaling an NES game!

Here's a camera that seems to actually be 4K:



Compare this to a 720p camera. This is how a typical sports game from Fox or ESPN looks:



...Yeah, 720p looks like trash. Can't believe we've been having to put up with this nonsense resolution from Fox/Disney for all these years.
 
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If anyone wants to see the difference between broadcast and 4k, watch a episode of The Blacklist on NBC (1080i), then watch a episode in 4K on Netflix, amazing difference.
 
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goaliebob99 said:
It's always been 1080P upconverted to 4K. It was never publicly discussed, and the event work orders where this information is not public. This is the way Fox has been doing it for a while. I know the guys who work on the trucks for these broadcasts. The reason I'm told is because of truck availability, although I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Click to expand...

So if both NBC and Fox is upscaling for their '4K' football games, I guess we've never had a true 4K football game yet? What about golf, are the broadcasts Fox has done for golf in 4K also upscaled?
 
I never said NBC. As far as I am aware NBC has always been 4k. Golf on Fox has been native 4k as well. They have 20 something cameras in 4K for that, with the exception of a few cameras that are upconverted.
 
VictoriaFTA said:
Hell yeah dude. If you can't tell the difference in clarity between 720p and 1080i content you need to get your eyes checked. Fox and ESPN/ABC backhauls always look blurry as hell compared to the 1080i backhauls from CBS/Viacom/NBC/Turner/etc. The quality of ESPN's Monday Night Football since they introduced that new 1080p encoder is outstanding compared to their old 720p feeds. The Emmy's looks noticeably worse this year than NBC's prior years coverage thanks to Fox dropping the res down to 720p.



From what I've seen most of those backhauls are native 4K. You can tell when they are doing some upscaling because whatever weird upscaling algorithm FS1's truck is using looks awful:



What the heck is this? Why is it so blocky? What's all this aliasing? It's like they're upscaling an NES game!

Here's a camera that seems to actually be 4K:



Compare this to a 720p camera. This is how a typical sports game from Fox or ESPN looks:



...Yeah, 720p looks like trash. Can't believe we've been having to put up with this nonsense resolution from Fox/Disney for all these years.
Click to expand...
Theres a Huge difference between 720p and 1080p or course, but were talking 720p and 1080i, not 1080p
 
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