10,000 dead?

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vurbano

On Double Secret Probation
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Supporting Founder
Apr 1, 2004
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Newport News, VA
Nagin admits he really has no clue how many are dead but the press writes a story saying 10k may be dead. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050906/ts_nm/katrina_dc

Katrina death toll may be 10,000 as Bush vows help


By Mark Egan and Paul Simao 42 minutes ago


NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Victims of Hurricane Katrina returned to pick through their battered homes on Monday and President George W. Bush promised to fix bungled rescue efforts after a disaster in which the mayor of New Orleans said as many as 10,000 may have died.

Rescuers in boats, helicopters and military vehicles went house to house looking for stranded survivors of one of the worst natural disasters to hit the United States.

A full week after Katrina crashed into the U.S. Gulf coast and ravaged one of America's most popular cities, the home of jazz and Mardi Gras, no one knows how many people perished.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said "it wouldn't be unreasonable" for the death toll to rise to 10,000, although he admitted he had no idea of the exact number.

While authorities allowed people to temporarily return to their homes in areas outside New Orleans, police pleaded with people who have not yet abandoned the city itself to get out.

"There are no jobs. There are no homes to go to, no hotels to go to, there is absolutely nothing here," Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley said. "We advise people that this city has been destroyed, it has completely been destroyed."

Forensic experts prepared a warehouse for the grim task of identifying victims when they are finally recovered.

Some are not hard to find as swollen bodies float in the streets but officials fear thousands more are hidden in homes across New Orleans, the home of jazz and Mardi Gras and one of America's most popular cities before Katrina tore it apart,

In suburban Jefferson Parish, stunned residents got a first look at Katrina's damage to their homes when it struck with 140 mph (225 kmh) winds and a massive storm surge.

They were greeted by a panorama of toppled trees and street signs, and spacious middle-class homes that had been flooded with several feet of water.

"I try to be upbeat but it's devastating. I may lose my house because I may not be able to make my payments, and I don't know when I'm going to work again," said Mark Becker, 48, at his Metairie home.

Storm winds had ripped two holes in his roof and caused the ceiling to collapse in a bedroom and kitchen.

Others said the damage could have been worse. They said their homes were mostly intact and salvageable.

Many of those going back brought guns or friends or both for protection in case they encountered looters.

The Jefferson Parish government told its residents not to stay in their homes, but to gather items they needed and leave again by nightfall because there was no power or clean water.

BUSH UNDER FIRE

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers began pumping water from the flooded city after closing a major gap in the levees which burst during Hurricane Katrina and allowed the waters of Lake Pontchartrain to rush through.

Draining the entire city could take 80 days or more, but the Corps was working to plug another major breach in the levees, spokesman John Hall said.

Bush, who has faced fierce criticism for the slow relief response, visited dozens of Katrina victims being cared for at a prayer center in Baton Rouge and promised the country would "do what it takes" to help people get back on their feet.

It was the second trip to the ravaged region in less than a week for Bush, already suffering from the lowest approval ratings of his presidency, largely because of the Iraq war.

He has admitted the early relief effort was "unacceptable" and promised on Monday to make changes as needed.

"If it's not right, we're going to fix it, and if it is right, we're going to keep doing it. And this is just the beginning of a huge effort," Bush said.

Former President Bill Clinton joined the growing criticism of the government response. "Our government failed those people in the beginning. There is no dispute about it," he told CNN.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune called on Bush to fire every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "We're angry, Mr. President," the newspaper said in an open letter.

Former President George H.W. Bush, said he didn't like to see his son under fire but that it was part of the job.

"The president can take it," he said. "It goes with the territory."

The official death toll in Louisiana stood at 59 but officials said it would climb dramatically in coming days.

A warehouse in a Louisiana town is being set up to handle thousands of corpses. Rows of stainless steel gurneys await the first bodies and the concrete floors are covered with plastic sheets to contain fluids that could pose a biohazard threat.

Temporary morgues were being set up around the region and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children posted photographs of more than two dozen children who had lost touch with their families during the disaster on its Web site ( http://www.missingkids.com/ ).

REGAINING CONTROL

Police and troops were regaining control of the city after days of murder, rape and looting that horrified America and the world.

But New Orleans Police Department Deputy Chief Warren Riley said only about 1,000 of the force's 1,641 officers were accounted for and that many had had gone looking for missing relatives but others had apparently deserted.

At least 240,000 evacuees had flooded into neighboring Texas, where Gov. Rick Perry said the state could handle no more and asked that any more be airlifted to other states.

Two cruise ships based in Galveston, Texas, were expected to start boarding evacuees later on Monday. They both have a capacity for 2,600 people.

Not all New Orleans residents wanted out. "They'll have to drag me out by my feet," said Mike Reed, 49, as he swept debris from the streets of the city's historic French Quarter, which experienced light flooding compared with other neighborhoods.

At least two French Quarter bars -- Molly's and Johnny White's -- have been serving customers in the week since the storm. "That's our job. That's just what we do," said Molly's owner, Jim Monaghan.
 
This is the same writer, Mark Egan, that wrote a few days ago that Bush bungled the operation. It amazes me how this:

"it wouldn't be unreasonable" for the death toll to rise to 10,000, although he admitted he had no idea of the exact number.

Turns into an entire article.

And heres the worlds stupidest man trying to catch a case of Cholera. For Petes sake bodies are floating in this water:rolleyes:
 

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What I absolutely do not understand is why they are not forcibly removing those who dont want to leave such as the idiot who would not leave a grocery store tonight, and why anyone would want to stay in that city with sewage infested waters that have dead bodies carrying all sorts of diseases. Even with the stearn warning that no food or water will be brought to those who do not leave theyr still staying, even when a swat team held a gun at a mans head one of the two there has decided to stay.

Oh and my opinion, the nola mayor is an idiot who bungled the evacuation before katrina hit.;
 
Let them think what they will, all Ive heard from this mayor is him placing blame on everyone else, yet he has not said a thing about why he didnt force the mandatory evacuation of his city. I do think that FEMA and Bush should have acted sooner but then again if you remember it wasnt until late tuesday afternoon that the extent of the damage was just starting to trickle in so no I dont think that anyone realized the extent of damage potential at that time. The levee's breaking stole the spot light from other area's damage, the surrounding parish's might as well have been barren land devoid of life for all that it mattered to the media. It wasnt until the sherriff in slidel said to a reporter that boats where coming in loaded with survivers from nearby parish's and a man floated in on some debri after he had been washed out for over 4 days that anyone even took notice.
 
Van said:
Let them think what they will, all Ive heard from this mayor is him placing blame on everyone else, yet he has not said a thing about why he didnt force the mandatory evacuation of his city.
I support Mayor Nagin! He has done the absolutly right! Without opening the super dome, there would be a lot of more people dead. And his words to Bush's administration were totaly correct! BUSH SUCKZ! (well ... everyone in the world knows our opinion in Germany about Bush :D )

And sometimes we Germans thank God for Bush's war in Iraq :D So we're no longer the bad invaders ;)
For hardliners: That's just a joke!
 
It was a once in 200 year storm, 99.5% of the time it wouldnt of been nearly as bad.

FEMA played the odds and lost big.

Bush is a complete loss as president.

He can airdrop food and water to Iraquis but not in the US?

FEMA wanted to negoiate management structure while folks died...

no one is cutting off food and water to hold outs. bad rumor

hey if YOU personally heard how inept the relief efforts were. just think superdome, would you not huncker down at home?

HOMELAND SECURITY IS A JOKE WAITING TO KILL!
 
Michael-Berlin said:
I support Mayor Nagin! He has done the absolutly right! Without opening the super dome, there would be a lot of more people dead. And his words to Bush's administration were totaly correct! BUSH SUCKZ! (well ... everyone in the world knows our opinion in Germany about Bush :D )

And sometimes we Germans thank God for Bush's war in Iraq :D So we're no longer the bad invaders ;)
For hardliners: That's just a joke!

More on the incompetent Nagin and the Governor:

To paraphrase DonLandis:

The Mayor's plan provided for use of the busses when a state of emergency was declared. Instead mayor went to a party. He should have been deploying his plan that used those busses before Monday. He only used 100 of them. After the busses were flooded the governor issues the order. Absolute incompetence.

Note that the so called governor didnt do this until 9/1 !!!!!!

"Date: 9/1/2005


Contact Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


Governor Blanco Announces Executive Order

Baton Rouge, LA— Governor Blanco today announced the following Executive Order:

Executive Order NO. KBB 2005- 31- provides that pursuant to the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act, R.S. 29:721, et seq., grants emergency powers to the governor, where, she has in consultation with school superintendents, utilized public school buses for transportation of Hurricane Katrina evacuees."
 
Bob Haller said:
It was a once in 200 year storm, 99.5% of the time it wouldnt of been nearly as bad.
are u sure? I don't think so :( Tip: search on Google for "Global Warming" :(

Bob Haller said:
Bush is a complete loss as president.
agreed.

Bob Haller said:
He can airdrop food and water to Iraquis but not in the US?
Even we Germans have send some Airbus-jets with food and medical stuff to New Orleans. And what did the US-administation? They blocked a jet! :no That are some damn stupid suckerz!

Bob Haller said:
HOMELAND SECURITY IS A JOKE WAITING TO KILL!
well ... that's nothing else as a copy of the "Stasi" ... former Eastern Germany's secret service. It was called "Ministerium für Staatssicherheit" and that means nothing else "Ministry of Homeland Security".
 
Bob Haller said:
no one is cutting off food and water to hold outs. bad rumor


Like most of your post that is Horse excrement!:rolleyes: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050906/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina

"Nagin said the city had the authority to force residents to evacuate but didn't say if it was taking that step. He did, however, detail one heavy-handed tactic: Water will no longer be handed out to people who refuse to leave. The mayor has said it wouldn't be "unreasonable" to have the city's death toll reach 10,000."
 
Michael-Berlin said:
I support Mayor Nagin! He has done the absolutly right! Without opening the super dome, there would be a lot of more people dead.

I'm not sure how emergency evacuations are handled in Germany, but simply opening up a massive structure to pack in thousands of poor people - then having them fend for themselves is not considered doing everything "absolutely right" - at least not in America.

They lost a day of rescues early on because the choppers were being fired upon - no security whatsoever in New Orleans. Even FEMA choppers would not have flown under fire. And in the "safe haven" of the Superdome, crime was rampant. Yet as recently as yesterday, the Louisiana governor still refuses to federalize the LA National Guard so that the efforts can be coordinated by a single entity.

Even if you ignore the legal reasons the federal government can't just come in at will and take care of business, how much do we really expect FEMA to handle on it's own without some half competent help from local and state governments? Should they have enough assets to sweep in at a moment's notice and evacuate a city the size of New Orleans? What about Philadelphia, or Houston, or both?

FEMA needs to be lighter and faster on its feet - like any federal agency - but we better start to realize that mayors and governors need to be more than ribbon cutters or capable of pinning a blue ribbon on the prize cow at the state fair. Their incompetence can cost us dearly in lost lives.
 
CPanther95 said:
I'm not sure how emergency evacuations are handled in Germany, but simply opening up a massive structure to pack in thousands of poor people - then having them fend for themselves is not considered doing everything "absolutely right" - at least not in America.

we never had a big emergency like this. But we had some floodings here in Germany. And the people were evacuated to medical camps. But that wasn't thousends of people. It wasn't a giant city like New Orleans.

btw ... our people don't have guns and they don't kill any other!
 
Michael-Berlin said:
btw ... our people don't have guns and they don't kill any other!

...and it only took 2 world wars and the attempted genocide of the Jewish people to get it out of your system. :rolleyes:

Sorry, that was a cheap shot, but the German people have no right to sit in judgment of anyone, maybe someday, but not yet.

Peace

NightRyder
 
NightRyder said:
...and it only took 2 world wars and the attempted genocide of the Jewish people to get it out of your system. :rolleyes:

Sorry, that was a cheap shot, but the German people have no right to sit in judgment of anyone, maybe someday, but not yet.

Peace

NightRyder
but Americans can do?
.oO(Killing of the Indians, civil war, Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Iraq 1 + 2)
well ... I see ;)

Peace :D
 
Michael-Berlin said:
wow! What an answer



OK then. More bluntly, It would explain the ignorance dripping from your posts. Mayor Nagin failed in almost every aspect of his responsibilities. He failed to execute his own written emergency plans. If you had ever been through a hurricane you would know that the first responders are not the feds. As a licensed professional engineer, a resident of the Virginia Coast who has been through many hurricanes for the last 40 years and a member of the Emergency Operations Staff here I think you are absolutlety ignorant of the situation.:rolleyes:
 
vurbano said:
OK then. More bluntly, It would explain the ignorance dripping from your posts. Mayor Nagin failed in almost every aspect of his responsibilities. He failed to execute his own written emergency plans. If you had ever been through a hurricane you would know that the first responders are not the feds. As a licensed professional engineer, a resident of the Virginia Coast who has been through many hurricanes for the last 40 years and a member of the Emergency Operations Staff here I think you are absolutlety ignorant of the situation.:rolleyes:
One hundred percent concurrence with the FEMA NOT being a first responder.

Source

(Excerpt)

As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. A telling picture, ... taken by The Associated Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

<snip>

It seems that the mayor of New Orleans is leading the effort in not taking responsibility for his actions. The emergency managers for the state of Louisiana do not have much to say either. The failure in the first 48 hours to provide direction for survivors is theirs to live with. When FEMA was able to take over, it started out behind and had to develop its plan on the fly. Now the federal government has established priorities -- rescue the stranded, evacuate the city, flow in resources and fix the levee. It appears that now there is a plan and it is being systematically executed...
 
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