129 HD Even Transponder Issues (1 Viewer)

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
Hi all,
I have been working on a Dish headend for the past 2 weekends to help a friend get their HD channels working. Without getting into the nitty gritty of how the headend is setup, the issue was HD channels on 129 were missing. I had some low SNRs (5.0-8.0) on the transcoders so i figured I had a peaking issue. I used a sat meter to peak out the dish (Dish DP single output for just 129, its on an independent 1.2m dish) and tried again.no luck.. I then put a 622 receiver attached straight to the LNB on the dish and did a check switch to reset. It sees both the 129 Odd and Even transponders, no signals less than 55 across the range. I will note that the lower quality was on the even transponders... I swapped LNBs with a known good working from a 110 satellite, reset the switch again, same issue. I then tried using a 722(I think) DVR, same problem.. I replaced the input from the dish to the receiver with 3Ghz swept RG-6 total run of about 40feet, same problem. The channels I know for a fact I've been unable to receive are all listed on even transponders, CNN HD is a good example as it sits on TP18..Anyway, I then decided to swing the dish over to 72.7W and try to pick up the feeds from there, thinking maybe a LOS issue as there was a tree that *could* have caused an issue... On 72.7, I recheck the switch and Im again getting even transponders on the 72.7 satellite. I can get CNN HD as it now sits on TP19 but I lost the other HDs on 72.7 that sit on even transponders..Swapped for another known good LNB, same problem.. So, finally, to my question....What is going on? I have swapped dishes/LNBs/receivers and inputs and I still cannot seem to get the even transponders to give me anything but "Complete Signal Loss"... I can go into the 6-1-1 screen and select even transponders and I have signal quality 50-60 on all of the evens... Has anyone else seen this problem?
Any help would be appreciated as I'm ready to pull my hair out.. I cannot think of any reason why this would not work with my headend QAMs completely out of the loop
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,351
1,032
Dorchester, TX.
Hi all,
I have been working on a Dish headend for the past 2 weekends to help a friend get their HD channels working. Without getting into the nitty gritty of how the headend is setup, the issue was HD channels on 129 were missing. I had some low SNRs (5.0-8.0) on the transcoders so i figured I had a peaking issue. I used a sat meter to peak out the dish (Dish DP single output for just 129, its on an independent 1.2m dish) and tried again.no luck.. I then put a 622 receiver attached straight to the LNB on the dish and did a check switch to reset. It sees both the 129 Odd and Even transponders, no signals less than 55 across the range. I will note that the lower quality was on the even transponders... I swapped LNBs with a known good working from a 110 satellite, reset the switch again, same issue. I then tried using a 722(I think) DVR, same problem.. I replaced the input from the dish to the receiver with 3Ghz swept RG-6 total run of about 40feet, same problem. The channels I know for a fact I've been unable to receive are all listed on even transponders, CNN HD is a good example as it sits on TP18..Anyway, I then decided to swing the dish over to 72.7W and try to pick up the feeds from there, thinking maybe a LOS issue as there was a tree that *could* have caused an issue... On 72.7, I recheck the switch and Im again getting even transponders on the 72.7 satellite. I can get CNN HD as it now sits on TP19 but I lost the other HDs on 72.7 that sit on even transponders..Swapped for another known good LNB, same problem.. So, finally, to my question....What is going on? I have swapped dishes/LNBs/receivers and inputs and I still cannot seem to get the even transponders to give me anything but "Complete Signal Loss"... I can go into the 6-1-1 screen and select even transponders and I have signal quality 50-60 on all of the evens... Has anyone else seen this problem?
Any help would be appreciated as I'm ready to pull my hair out.. I cannot think of any reason why this would not work with my headend QAMs completely out of the loop

Is this a commercial headend? Is he subscribing to those channels on the receivers you are using for testing? If the receiver does not have authorization no matter how strong the signal is it won't display programming. 622 and 722 are not qam compatible so they probably don't have authorization.
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
Is this a commercial headend? Is he subscribing to those channels on the receivers you are using for testing? If the receiver does not have authorization no matter how strong the signal is it won't display programming. 622 and 722 are not qam compatible so they probably don't have authorization.


The HD channels are all part of the subscription, it does not tell me that the channel is not authorized. It just gives me a message about "Channel Signal Loss" on the screen.. I have this dish jacked straight into a DP single LNB on 129 and I get that message.. I can use same dish, same receiver, and as in my example, CNN HD, point that same dish at 72.7 and get CNN HD just fine but anything listed on an even transponder will not show... I thought about it today and I'm wondering if any of you can tell me if you have had an LNB that did a successful check switch for even and odd transponders that had a similar issue. I'm wondering if I have to have a DP34 or DP44 between the dish and the receiver for 19v to actually hit the dish for bandstacking... I didnt get a chance to check today but I'm wondering if thats where things are going wrong with this and I only have say 16v but its enough to show me signal quality for the evens but not allow me to view.
 

nmiller6683

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2010
60
0
N/A
Shouldn't need a switch, sounds to me that u have some bad cabling somewhere I would take a chunk of cable from the lnb straight to the reciever them run your check switch, make sure u use different cable then u r currently using
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
Shouldn't need a switch, sounds to me that u have some bad cabling somewhere I would take a chunk of cable from the lnb straight to the reciever them run your check switch, make sure u use different cable then u r currently using


Replacing the cabling was the first thing I tried..Also tried with a 221 receiver and then swapped to a known working LNB from a 110 dish. Still had the same issue, that why I was wondering if it was a problem some people see with 129 or if possibly I have an undervolt condition in the LNB itself or if i needed something else in between the dishpro LNB and the receivers (since the receivers both mention they are DPP and no DP).
 

nmiller6683

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2010
60
0
N/A
Do u have a dpp lnb if u do try that with a separator on it then u will get signal to both tuners, can't use a sep with dish pro eq but u can direct point a dpp just like a dp
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
Do u have a dpp lnb if u do try that with a separator on it then u will get signal to both tuners, can't use a sep with dish pro eq but u can direct point a dpp just like a dp

are you saying the even and the odds come in differently on a DP lnb that I would need a separator just to light up 1 tuners??? Same behavior happens on a 211 also and its a single tuner
 

nmiller6683

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2010
60
0
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No it doesnt come in any different especially if it happens on a 211, ur post before u said 221 I assumed that u meant a 222, only other thing I can think of is some sort of power issue in the house, especially if u r plugged into a power strip
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
No it doesnt come in any different especially if it happens on a 211, ur post before u said 221 I assumed that u meant a 222, only other thing I can think of is some sort of power issue in the house, especially if u r plugged into a power strip


reciever is plugged directly into an isolated non-switched power outlet..like i said in the original post the part that gets me is that it only affects even transponders on 2 different satellites, and that is what makes no sense... I am correct in assuming that when receivers are in legacy mode that 13v is for odds and 18v would be for evens?? I'm wondering if I just dont have 19v clean hitting the DP LNB for bandstacking because thats the only thing that makes sense..that being said, if I was powering a DP LNB with say 16v would I see a similar issue where the LNB is unable to accomodate the even transponders because its undervolted?
 

nmiller6683

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2010
60
0
N/A
Explain what u mean by legacy mode, I believe the VIP receivers r smart enough to send the right amount of power to what lnb it see's
 

bweiteka

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 9, 2004
284
12
Champaign, IL
Have you checked for drift on those lnbs? If they are older than a few years look into it. Drift will cause a low signal especially on even transponders. Hook it up to your reciever, check switch, then go to system info screen. If there is drift it should show an error in the top left corner, go to details and it will tell you how bad the drift is. Between -5 and 5 is ok, outside that range, replace. A super buddy meter will show drift as well.
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
Have you checked for drift on those lnbs? If they are older than a few years look into it. Drift will cause a low signal especially on even transponders. Hook it up to your reciever, check switch, then go to system info screen. If there is drift it should show an error in the top left corner, go to details and it will tell you how bad the drift is. Between -5 and 5 is ok, outside that range, replace. A super buddy meter will show drift as well.


It didnt give me any errors when i did the check switch..it shows that the LNB is verified reception on both the odd and even transponders. I can check the signal on both even and odd transponders and it gives me a signal of 50+ for all of the transponders.. I've been doing some reading on the 19v DP stuff and since this isnt an actual dishnetwork provided dish but a .98 meter dish with a circular lnb (only stamp on the LNB says GC1), im wondering where i can even find a replacement LNB for such a dish.
 

bweiteka

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 9, 2004
284
12
Champaign, IL
So its not an actual dishnetwork DP lnb, its a generic? I could be wrong, but I don't think those lnbs actually are considered DP, think its actually legacy form. When you switch test a dp single it would say "129 All". A legacy single shows as "129 odd, 129 even". Which way was it? Legacy operates on a 13/18 volt switch, 18 bringing down the even transponders. Dp is 18 volts all the time.
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
So its not an actual dishnetwork DP lnb, its a generic? I could be wrong, but I don't think those lnbs actually are considered DP, think its actually legacy form. When you switch test a dp single it would say "129 All". A legacy single shows as "129 odd, 129 even". Which way was it? Legacy operates on a 13/18 volt switch, 18 bringing down the even transponders. Dp is 18 volts all the time.


It is a generic, it shows 129 even/odd when doing a switch test..the original wiring is to a DBS amp (Sonora) PAL10-T that shows 19V out *which i assume is for DP usage*..if not, that could be whats going on except if im only receiving 18v wouldnt that mean my problem would be opposite??
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,351
1,032
Dorchester, TX.
The educated guesses we can make are only as good as the information you provide. First post was a 1.2 meter dish with DP LNBs now you have a .98 meter dish with generic LEGACY LNB I suggest you start over with a new thread and accurate information about equipment being used. Some of your other posts suggest you may have non compatible components.:)
 

digitallystoned

Thread Starter
Member
Jan 28, 2012
9
0
Alabama
The educated guesses we can make are only as good as the information you provide. First post was a 1.2 meter dish with DP LNBs now you have a .98 meter dish with generic LEGACY LNB I suggest you start over with a new thread and accurate information about equipment being used. Some of your other posts suggest you may have non compatible components.:)


I had a long talk with the engineers who "built" this mess and after getting part numbers, they sold legacy LNBs..ordered the DP single today for arrival Wednesday. I'll let you guys know how it turns out..Sorry for the confusion this has been a frustration.
 

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