4D Map Master Question for all with 4DTV's

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tvropro

Thread Starter
On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
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Seems to me that was one of the original reasons (not to loose tiles) for starting the project. Now you want to remove tiles?

The "possibility" of not allowing the user to change the maps is also beginning to sound like Motorola/GI all over again. I hope I am misunderstanding.

DRCars

We are interested in what is best and some tiles are useless.

We are not trying to play Motorola. We want to make it easy for the majority to understand and use. A lot of people screwed up the conversion. What makes you think there up to setting parameters? There may be a version that allows data entry. If that is the case generics are not needed since all you do is put the data in when someone with a stream reader captures the info and your good to go.

Case in point: Can most take the cover off the 4D and hook up a bdm cable then run the program and enter data? At this point it looks like this will be the way it will be. As far as RF or any other method they are on the back burner and may never become a reality especially with the limited budget we have. Remember we can't do what Motorola can do, charge tall dollars to the end user for R&D then order them to buy 200,000 units or they won't be built. All need to be happy with what we can come up with and what works for the majority. There is only a handful of people working on the project and donating there time and talents for the good of all. If it's not up to some liking were sorry. Who ever don't want to use our release or aren't happy with our decisions are free to take the original 4Play code (you can download it at my 4DTV Online site) and make your own program and interface if you want.

You can never make everyone happy :shocked:facepalm
 
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Asket

Asket

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 26, 2010
273
8
Anaheim CA
The thing with the big dish is there is always something new. With the pizza dishes and cable your always limited by with what they offer and that's it. Never will you get a feed or a strange new channel. The big dish may slowly be fading away but I'm gonna ride it till the end. The internet will eventually be the place where all the entertainment will be offered. Cable TV and even networks will be on the net. Just look whats changed in just 10 years wow. Long live c band!!!!!
I really do think the big dish will have a place for a long time. Technologies will change but there will always be something interesting. I am not impressed with internet delivery because of
bandwidth cost to make it anywhere near even small dish offerings at their worst. Saw a photigraph of a large dish in a guys backyard dated around 1928. What was he doing?
Early radio astronomy.
 
B

Beano_face

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 22, 2009
194
0
Saskatchewan, Canada
whatever happens in the future... all I know is the pic quality on Cband HD is awesome :)... better than HD on cable/ pizza dish providers...
 
B

brockwired

New Member
Nov 19, 2010
2
0
wisconsin
Thank you for putting in so much time and effort. I am going to put "something" in the suggestion box. Some tiles can be used as place holders, just map them with 2 channels so we can catch both polarities on a satellite. that would be great for those running slaved receivers. I like the idea of merging the generics into the "normal" tiles. To save memory you can set up two "analog" generics for cband.

Too bad this all can't be set up as a firmware upgrade and flashed in forever as "improved" generics. Then it would survive a master reset. But then again things change way too often. ;)
 
DRCars

DRCars

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 16, 2010
327
63
Southern USA
We are interested in what is best and some tiles are useless.

They all can be used for dish positioning. There are some that are only 1 polarity and are not as useful but not useless.

We are not trying to play Motorola. We want to make it easy for the majority to understand and use. A lot of people screwed up the conversion. What makes you think there up to setting parameters?

I agree that some may not be up to it and I understand you wanting to make it easy for the majority to use.

There may be a version that allows data entry. If that is the case generics are not needed since all you do is put the data in when someone with a stream reader captures the info and your good to go.

Glad to hear that. Thanks for considering that.

Case in point: Can most take the cover off the 4D and hook up a bdm cable then run the program and enter data? At this point it looks like this will be the way it will be.

I don't know if most can, but would guess they probably won't.

As far as RF or any other method they are on the back burner and may never become a reality especially with the limited budget we have. Remember we can't do what Motorola can do, charge tall dollars to the end user for R&D then order them to buy 200,000 units or they won't be built. All need to be happy with what we can come up with and what works for the majority. There is only a handful of people working on the project and donating there time and talents for the good of all. If it's not up to some liking were sorry. Who ever don't want to use our release or aren't happy with our decisions are free to take the original 4Play code (you can download it at my 4DTV Online site) and make your own program and interface if you want.

Sorry about the Motorola comparison, I shouldn't have gone nuclear, but it apparently did get your attention.;)

You can never make everyone happy :shocked:facepalm
That's a good bet!

DRCars
 
T

tvropro

Thread Starter
On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
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They all can be used...

DRCars


It is what it is, by cleaning up dead wood it allows for more useful things. The technology is old and limited to only so much memory.
 
Asket

Asket

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 26, 2010
273
8
Anaheim CA
Thank you for putting in so much time and effort. I am going to put "something" in the suggestion box. Some tiles can be used as place holders, just map them with 2 channels so we can catch both polarities on a satellite. that would be great for those running slaved receivers. I like the idea of merging the generics into the "normal" tiles. To save memory you can set up two "analog" generics for cband.

Too bad this all can't be set up as a firmware upgrade and flashed in forever as "improved" generics. Then it would survive a master reset. But then again things change way too often. ;)

BlackCipher open architecture firmware?
 
L

lonewolf454

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2009
278
0
Georgia, US
Had the 4play thing worked out, one of the things I had planned on doing was adding the channels that we get with generics directly into the correct tile. If this were done, the generics wouldn't be as necessary. I guess some would still want to "surf" with the generics to see what they could find. But once found, the channel could be added to the appropriate regular tile.

I almost agree with only tile per orbital location. That would certainly be good enough as a master mover for FTA. But, it would would eliminate the ability to receive analog feeds on whichever band there wasn't a tile for. And there are still times when there is a feed of interest on analog C or Ku. Not real often, but it does still happen.

I would think a cutoff point after so far east could be figured out.

Cheers

What ku sat (real name or orbital location please) is used for feeds, how often and certain transponders? You are speaking of analog too, not dvb. If you don't want to post here, PM me so we can include this in the maps. As TVRO stated, some ku sats are useless, all you need is -1- placeholder for c or ku DVB only satellite. We are going to flush some of this old unneeded data from the box. Let me know of any ku that needs to stay (other than Anik's) The eastern satellite will be 30W unless we need anything further than that. There is always option of adding your own satellite placeholders wherever you want, like always. I am in eastern US and only get to 40.5W without fubarring my actuator arm, so I don't think too many folks will need to go below 30W. Let me know.
 
Anony55

Anony55

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 10, 2010
460
1
USA
What ku sat (real name or orbital location please) is used for feeds, how often and certain transponders?...

Man, I don't really write this stuff down like I should. Of course, there's more analog on C than Ku. But you're asking about Ku, so I'll try to make my memory work as well as possible.

I know that over the last couple of years I've seen analog Ku sports wildfeeds on AMC-15, AMC-16, and H2. I have no clue what TPs they were on. And it's been a while for H2 (longer than the other 2). AMC-16 was pro stuff, while AMC-15 was NCAA football that airs on a certain college sports channel (I think some Murdock guy might have a hand in that one ;)). H2 was nearly any kind of sport, but to be honest, I haven't looked much for analog on H2 for a while now.

I almost hate to even bring analog Ku up at all. We all know what the trend has been. Who even knows if there will be any analog Ku sports at all this coming football season. I just want to keep my analog options open until it finally does really die... all the way.

I'm just one guy. And I only look when I look. Perhaps others will have locations for analog Ku as well.

Cheers

EDIT: I just noticed that you also asked how often. The answer to that one is... not very.
 
G

Gordon Corbett

SatelliteGuys Family
May 27, 2009
59
0
South-Coastal Oregon
Is 4D Map Master Legally Dangerous?

Dear All,

I just read Mr. Scott Greczkowski's message accompanying the notice that he has merged the 4DTV Forum with the C-Band Forum. He began by telling his readers that 4DTV is dead. To substantiate his idea, he cited a couple of events. Those things did not make me write this message.

The following is what did. A lawyer telephoned Mr. Greczkowski. His subject was Mr. Greczkowski's allegedly having violated Motorola's rights. Today, Mr. Greczkowski is growing enough ice to sink the Titanic. This, uh, "gent" threatened Mr. Greczkowski implicitly by calling at his workplace. Worse, he threatened him explicitly for allegedly having violated Motorola's rights: he had allowed members of his Forum to discuss "the program" and "the project" (Mr. Greczkowski's words).

Mr. Greczkowski wrote that he has deleted almost all material relating to the program and the project. When I tried to look up several SatelliteGuys.us messages pertaining to 4D Map Master, I encountered messages advising me to desist.

If Mr. Greczkowski's caller really is an attorney, and if his client has empowered him to make such threats, we need to pay strict attention.

If the program or project that he addressed is 4D Map Master, its makers may find themselves in a predicament similar to that of the unlamented "pirates" who were stealing service from Dishnet and DirecTV.

Motorola may have contracted with the SLD companies not to permit 4DTV receivers' modification even to receive FTA and ITC signals. If they did, 4D Map Master may be "illegal," if a court decides that they had a right under the DMCA to make such an agreement. If so, I will not sign up for a whopping big judgment, even if it would be silly, stupid, corrupt, and generally immoral.

Please tell us the plain truth. Mr. Greczkowski was too frightened to go into specifics. I would love using my DSR-920 as more than a dish-mover, but I will not expose myself to legal danger.

I am not throwing rocks at Mr. Greczkowski. A lawsuit is a fearsome thing. I respect his fear.

Sincerely,

Gordon F. Corbett
 
T

tvropro

Thread Starter
On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
Dear All,

I just read Mr. Scott Greczkowski's message accompanying the notice that he has merged the 4DTV Forum with the C-Band Forum. He began by telling his readers that 4DTV is dead. To substantiate his idea, he cited a couple of events. Those things did not make me write this message.

The following is what did. A lawyer telephoned Mr. Greczkowski. His subject was Mr. Greczkowski's allegedly having violated Motorola's rights. Today, Mr. Greczkowski is growing enough ice to sink the Titanic. This, uh, "gent" threatened Mr. Greczkowski implicitly by calling at his workplace. Worse, he threatened him explicitly for allegedly having violated Motorola's rights: he had allowed members of his Forum to discuss "the program" and "the project" (Mr. Greczkowski's words).

Mr. Greczkowski wrote that he has deleted almost all material relating to the program and the project. When I tried to look up several SatelliteGuys.us messages pertaining to 4D Map Master, I encountered messages advising me to desist.

If Mr. Greczkowski's caller really is an attorney, and if his client has empowered him to make such threats, we need to pay strict attention.

If the program or project that he addressed is 4D Map Master, its makers may find themselves in a predicament similar to that of the unlamented "pirates" who were stealing service from Dishnet and DirecTV.

Motorola may have contracted with the SLD companies not to permit 4DTV receivers' modification even to receive FTA and ITC signals. If they did, 4D Map Master may be "illegal," if a court decides that they had a right under the DMCA to make such an agreement. If so, I will not sign up for a whopping big judgment, even if it would be silly, stupid, corrupt, and generally immoral.

Please tell us the plain truth. Mr. Greczkowski was too frightened to go into specifics. I would love using my DSR-920 as more than a dish-mover, but I will not expose myself to legal danger.

I am not throwing rocks at Mr. Greczkowski. A lawsuit is a fearsome thing. I respect his fear.

Sincerely,

Gordon F. Corbett

Map Master is written using the original 4Play source code given to us by the inventor. There is nothing illegal about the program it writes maps thats all. Motorola gave it's blessings to 4Play years ago so I truly believe that there is a big hoax being played on Scott.
 
T

trinidex

SatelliteGuys Pro
Lifetime Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
892
1
In the time it took me to write this, tvropro posted and it contained something I wasn't aware of, how M felt about 4Play back in the day. According to the post they gave it their blessing - now for M, I find this hard to believe :) but it does tell me they didn't throw lawsuits at the original developer.

GC - I am not a legal eagle when it comes to these things, so I can't answer Yes or No.

In the early days of 4DTV a utility was written (4Play) that allowed interfacing to 4DTV (920) units and performing some changes to the memory, maps, etc. As I understand it, it was discontinued, that is, no longer developed, probably because the original coder found something else to do with his time. Do you know what I mean? - "I've written a utility that allows me to backup satellite maps - great!.....now what shall I do?", probably wasn't interested in making $$$ from it.

There's a whole bunch of discussion topics here and we could go back/forth all week without agreement.

Things have changed though, those things are the stigma that exists now over stealing PayTV. Hacking has been determined to be illegal, makes you a pirate, a criminal - heck no!

Hacking is the same as modifying, it, by itself, is not illegal. I hacked the lights in my house to run from a Home Automation Server - eek! Seriously though, if I hacked my neighbour's house, so I can get free utilities, well that's illegal, building the hack isn't, theft of service is the issue.

Another example is "JTAG" - the 4DTV has a JTAG port, M schematics exist, publicly, on the internet, you can build one if you so feel fit, if you kill your 4DTV - boohoo, sorry for you.

As for M - they historically don't play with anyone else, they have the power, the money and bull headedness to remove anyone who steps slightly out of line.

FWIW - why not, it is there I.P. - they're not in business to give it away!

What I don't understand about this most recent event is why they're doing it, it's almost as though by the development of the project someone's gonna hit the "open everything" switch, a test mode, something that has been buried deep that could be bad for M and their DCII business - is it still theirs, or G?

You like me and others will need to decide if we want to play with our receivers.
 
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T

tvropro

Thread Starter
On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
What I don't understand about this most recent event is why they're doing it, it's almost as though by the development of the project someone's gonna hit the "open everything" switch, a test mode, something that has been buried deep that could be bad for M and their DCII business - is it still theirs, or G?

Is it possible that someome that has cracked DC at some point in time feel now that if there is a threat to what they may have did and expect some kind of ECM's from M that would shut them down. Thats the only threat I can see. Motorola's DC system is very secure. The XC chip is battery protected and any attempt to try to read or write to it it kills itself thats what I know.
 
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