622 - Only 30 timers?

Eric_C

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Apr 18, 2004
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Thats gotta be wrong but once I hit 30 times my 622 tells me no more timers I must delete some.

That can't be right can it?

This thing can do everything except make sliced bread, its my 4th DVR and its what every DVR should be...but only 30 timers?

Tell me something is wrong...
 
I wrote a few long and detailed explainations of the 522/625 (yes, I know they are not HD, but I believe the timer technology is the same) over at DBSTalk.com Please do a search regarding 625 timers or any other keywords that might lead you to it. The short answer here is that it is not the number of timers; it is the number of events. I can't remember exaclty, but I think the maximum is 288 event, counting skipped events, as well. I hope you find the posts at the other borad.
 
I FELT BAD ABOUT NOT DOING THE WORK FOR YOU, SO BELOW IS A COPY OF WHAT I POSTED AT DBSTALK REGARDING TIMERS (522/625/PERHAPS 622) I HOPE IT IS OF SOME HELP TO YOU:
I have been a long time reader, but have never been motivated until today to register and reply because I do feel for you and your timer woes, and I must share what I have learned, the hard way, about 625 timers.
Yes, the total number of events is limited to 288. I do not know about the number of timers. Anyway, you must understand that even skipped events in your timers are all still counted towards your limit of 288. For example, MTV may air The Real World 40 times in one week. A few timers like those will really eat up your allowance of 288 events. In a situation like that, the solution is to use the “Weekly” timer setting. Of course as the air times pass, they are purged from the list of events and that allows more events to be entered in their place. So a one day marathon of MTV's Road Rules could suck up nearly 100 events, leaving you dumbfounded as to why you can't set a timer, but then, the next day, you can set tons of timers.
And beware of History Channel's Modern Marvels if you use “All or “New Episodes” timers with that show airing something like 45 times a week. Whoa, add that to The Real World and Road Rules timers and you may have used up all your 288 timer tokens on just 3 lousy timers! Do you get the picture?
To really see the true number of total events in memory, you MUST select “Show Skipped Events” from the Daily Schedule menu. If you are viewing the “Hide Skipped Events”, that number reflects only the timers that will fire and will not tell you how close you are to the magic 288 events. Remember skipped events are still counted in the memory. In most cases, the more common 5-10 events per timer will not present a problem. However, please check all your timers to see which have the most number of events in them. You can make room by using any other timer modes. Instead of “All”, see if “New Episodes” will cut the number down. If you still want more memory, then work the remaining modes of “Weekly”, etc. that may be the only options for you.
I know it stinks to have to resort to “Weekly” when the “New Episodes” provides advantages (such as automatically recording the later air time of the exact same show and episode should you choose to record something else in place of the first air time, and the 625 knowing when the episode is new), but it is the only solution I know of. Dish should have provided for more events than 288.
I've gone on long enough. I hope this was of help to you and all.

FURTHER INFO IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS:
To answer your question of should an EPG download occur if you have 288 events: There is no more memory for any events. Your expected timers for your beloved shows won't fire, in the short run. However, as time passes and timers and events pass and are purged, that makes room for more events. Let's hope the DVR scans soon after so it can place your timers in the Daily Schedual events--but only as many up to 288 total events. My advice is NEVER play it close to the magic 288. Please see my ealier post for hints on how to avoid cutting it close.
Why is there a limit of only 288 events? Only Mark Jackson and his good friend Dave Cummer (did I spell that right?) know. I not sure they really saw this coming--for example MTV's coming marathon of Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County is sucking up 45 events!. Who would've thought? Perhaps the memory is all shared with other important memory regarding channel tables and all sorts of other stuff Dish loves to download and change and enhance the set-top-boxes. Someone should investigate if we can get more than 288 events. That is insufficient.
To answer the last question: You can only have 288 events in memory until the time for those events have passed and are purged from the memory. In other words, as each episode of MTV's Laguna Beach ends, that events is no longer needed in memory. Now you have memory for one event to replace it. Get it? So, by the end of the day Saturday, I'll have my memory back for 45 events.
Keep in mind that when your memory is freed, the DVR will replace it with events from existing timers (I've observed not always immediately--I think it scans the guide every few hours or so), so, you could get all filled up to 288 again and not be able to make new timers, unless you use some stragegy to creating timers.
I will share my strategy in a later post. I hope I did not confuse anyone, and I do hope this lengthy reply was of help.

A STRATEGY
What follows is my strategy for not getting too close to our magic limit of 288 events: First, get to know your shows and the quirks of the networks on which they air.
Major Broadcast Network (ABC,CBS, etc. locals) shows usually air once or a few times a week, so it is very safe to use the New or even All episodes timer because a small number of events (2 or 3), including the skipped events, will take up memory.
"Cable" channels such as USA, MTV, History Channel, etc. are not always so easy. For example, I know that MTV and History Channel LOVE to air many episodes of some shows throughout the week. History Channel airs Modern Marvels something like 45 time a week. Avoid using New or All timers in such a situation, and use weekly or once instead. However, other shows on History Channel are limited in repeats, such as Declassified, and may only air 3 times in a week, so a New timer would work well.
Other channels like BBC America seem to NEVER play the heavy rotation games of History Channel or MTV, and so I always feel safe using a New timer on that channel.
Finally, it shouldn't be this way, but it is. If you think your gonna have a 288 issue, then you need to do timer maintenance--meaning, it is in your best interest to check your Daily Schedule listings and check how many events you have after you press "Show Skip". Also, go into the suspect timers (via the 'Timer" button and verify the number of events in those particular timers because one week there are only 3 events, but the next week that network decides to air that show 15 times, and that can unexpectedly suck away your memory. If you don't do some maintenance, you will become frustrated and clueless and feel out of control and not get your beloved shows recorded, and you won't know why.
Of course, all this is only for advanced TV watchers who LOVE to watch as much as they can. I have relatives who record a fair amount, but NEVER even come close to the 288 limit.
I Need to clarify what I wrote in an earlier post. What I wrote was: "Your expected timers for your beloved shows won't fire, in the short run."
What I meant to say was this: All the timers in current memory displayed on the Daily Schedual will fire, but previously set timers that the DVR wants to enter into the Daily Schedual can't be entered because the events memory (Daily Schedual) is full (288 events).
Think of it as a que of wannabes who want to get past the velvet rope and into the nightclub. No one is getting in until someone leaves the club (if the club owners follow the fire code). Except there is a delay in letting new people into the club because the DVR waits for the next schedualed scan of the EPG. However, if room has become available, you can immediatly get into the club by creating a new timer because that will immediatly go into memory (Daily Schedual).
I hope that clarification was clear. A good night to all
 
96 timers, 288 events, whichever comes first. As you've already discovered, allowing an average of 3 events per timer is totally inadequate as that only covers the low end of the scale for broadcast networks. Toss in cable networks and common words on a DishPass and your average is well over 3.

DishSubLA, Dave's last name starts with K. He never did return from vacation to the Tech Forum. Is he still with E*?
 
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Thanks for the info...so does anyone else find this absolutely ridiculous?

I record "Auto Racing" on Dishpass, that right there eats up 30 percent of my available slots.

For all the technology in this box and how solid it is someone boo boo'd.
 
I agree the number seems limiting, but i think the amount of available disk space is probably gonna get you first, especially as more HD comes along. I wonder how you keep up, im always at least 10-12 shows behind that need watching and i watch most nights, with only about 10 timers.
 
I'm with gbjbany. How in the world do you keep up with that many timers?

I've had Dish DVRs for 5 years now and my high-water mark for timers across the entire period was 8. Right now on my 942 I have 3 set. 30 seems like a really high number to me.

Like if the upper limit of events within a 10 day window is 288, how would anyone ever be able to record and watch that many?

My max number of recorded events at any one time was 52, and several of those were 6 to 12 months old.

And you can't hit anywhere near these numbers if you are recording a lot of HD.

So if the limits are 96 timers and 288 events, those sound extremely reasonable to me.
 
I agree that it's difficult for one person to watch that much TV. I think the problem with excessive timers comes into play when multiple members of the family set up timers on the same DVR (especially kid shows).
 
Shawn95GT said:
It's VERY easy to hit that number if you don't watch live TV.

You would need to add that you would be watching recorded SD programming. There is no way you could approach those numbers with HD as even a 622 is only a 30-40 hour DVR with HD programs.

Let's say you could record 39 hours of HD and you were recording 30 minute programs on 1/3rd of your disk drive, 60 minute programs 1/3rd, and 2 to 2.5 hour movies the other 1/3rd. You would consume your DVR's hard disk with approx 45 events.
 
Tom, it's not necessarily recording 288 events and I seriously doubt anyone is attempting to watch that many. It also has nothing to do with how many programs are stored on your HDD.

As explained in post #4, he NBR timers are finding every occurrence that could be recorded, and counts ALL of them against the 288 limit even if only one is recorded and the rest are skipped.

The other part of the problem is the order the events are built. As Eric_C has found, a common term like "Auto Racing" finds a lot of possible events in the 9-day EPG. Those are all tallied before moving on to the next timer. If you hit 288, you have no more room for another show today unless you delete a timer and remember to add it back later. Hardly set it and forget it. If the events were built day-by-day you might hit the 288 limit at 6 days out, or maybe just 3. You wouldn't be able to adjust priorities as far in advance (unless the limit was raised) but today and the next few days wouldn't be an issue.


I usually run ~28 time-based timers. If I had NBR (seems my recent flagship 921 won't get it :no) several of my stored searches would be added as DishPasses. Despite my support of the call to add NBR, I'm not sure if the way Dish implements it would make my life any easier.
 
My Fun
First, I am laughing and rolling on the floor that I made the "C" for Kummer mistake. Wow, that was a funny one. Yes, I believe he still works for Dish. He was a star witness in the just finished Tivo vs. Echostar trickplay misuse of our tort system lawsuit. In the press coverage I read, he was identified as an Echostar employee and the person at the top responsible for the design of the Dish DVR's. On his final appearance on the Tech Forum, he announced he was going on "sabbaticle" (I can't spell). I do miss him. I liked it when Dave would tell it like it is, and Mark would glare at him with fire in his eyes. You can sure tell when Mark gets P.Oed. I love that when it happens. Mark now glares at the poor software dude who often doesen't have answers to the questions:)

My Tirade
I must agree that it doesn't take much to hit the magic 288 or 96 timers. In my case I leave many "new" timers for old shows still in the system. This often takes none or little event space. I want my DVR to record the new shows without me having to think about it. It is the changing scheduals of the TV networks I can't keep up with, not the timers I set. I need those timers forever searching, and I have missed some new episodes on BBC America only because I didn't leave the timer in the system. You forget, my friends, that if I want the DVR to record NEW Modern Marvels, that is still going to take something like 45 or 50 events. Plus I do like a few MTV shows, and they take up another 45+ events, sometimes--per show. Remember in searching for new episodes, the DVR still keeps in memory the 44 other old episodes. It merely "skips" the old episodes so they won't fire. My point is that the 288 events and 96 timers is really not sufficient for such a relatively sophisticated box. Why should we have to manage the timers so much just becuase MTV, Oxygen, Bravo, History Channel, BBC America with their marathons, Nick at Nite, even shows that air on both ABC Family and the ABC broadcast network, and duplicates on NBC boradcast network as well as the NBC Universal channels listed above, and on and on and on, who choose to air a show humongus times each week. That is not our fault. We are using the DVR as advertised by Dish. It is Dish who should have thought of the reality of pay-sat-cable TV. They didn't or were too cheap to make it really perform as it should in regards to timers. What good is or where is the power of a timer or Dish Pass if you have to delete it to make room, but, of course, miss the new episodes because you had to delete it in the first place. This is a problem for a growing number of Dish subs who are merely trying to get full value of the services for which they pay, and yes, in a family situation it is a known pain in the rear. This is Dish's fault. Not the subs. I have now calmed down. I shall take a nap thinking of the "C" for Kummer boo-boo.
 
I want to add that BobaBird's last post was an excellent response, and bloody well wrtitten. Here, here. Thank you, BobaBird.
 
I hit it when the wife (in her wisdom) picked some mickey mouse show and made it auto-tune... she said the kids love that show... Ok thats fine, but I looked in the events and (including duplicate skips) there were like 200 events for that show...

One wrong move and the whole thing craps out... I agree there needs to be something done about that.
 
Yes, bobabird nailed it.

If you record something like "Smart Travels" it can sometimes appear 2 or 3 times a day on one channel, and sometimes again on another channel. Lot's and lot's of skipped episodes. The number of "events" goes up fast with one or two shows like that, and a few other timers. And not a whole lot is necessarily recorded, but the limit is still held "against us."

After reading these limits, I cleaned out several timers I had set. Still, I had 171 events listed. I wonder how close I was before house cleaning, and what I may have missed.

Yes, 288 is way too low. The hard disk has lots of space for tracking this stuff- why not 1024 or even more? I think 288 events is hit way before 96 timers, but even the 96 is too low of a number. At the least, there should be a warning when you get close, or that something was lost- or at the very least, a note on the screen listing the limits.
 
Its very easy to hit as it already has been explained.


We don't watch much TV at all but we do record alot.

Take for instance The Daily Show and The Colbert Report.

Those are shown I believe 3 times per day, 2 shows. Thats 6 per day. It records the new ep only, but in a 2 week timeframe it takes up 60 slots out of my 288.

"Auto Racing" takes up a ton right there too in Dishpass. I only watch F1, Star Mazda, AMLS, and Speed GT however it records a ton that I just delete but still Speed TV rebroadcasts most of their stuff a few times per week.

Forget putting Law & Order in Dishpass :)

HGHD as I said shows the same show sometimes 14 times in the same week, sometimes 21. We record 6 shows off of HGHD, right there thats 252 slots.

Same with HDnet, multiple showings.

We have 30 times, usually around 10 are one time only. We'll scan the guide for movies and things like that, the other 20 are recocurring shows, most of them 1/2 hour shows so thats only 10 hours per week.

I bet most people watching more than 10 hours per week.

Its a very flawed system IMO.

Just HGHD alone recording 3 hours of new content per week will get you over 85 percent full of your available slots while barely taking any space up on the DVR itself.

I should edit the title of my post or the explanation by DishsubLA should be made a sticky with my problem as a quote.
 
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The current system for finding shows to record has its advantages, but Navychop is correct in suggesting a really huge number of events in memory, and he is also correct about 96 timers being to few. Thank goodness I am the only one in my household who uses the 625, otherwise, I would be sunk.
 
I didn't know the limit applied to skipped events. I agree that this makes a big difference and could limit one to setting up timers for only 4 or 5 shows.

I haven't encountered the problem as I rarely use NBR on my 942, about 90% of my recordings are movies.

I agree that having an upper limit of 288 which includes skipped events is inadequate for a piece of hardware as sophisticated as a 622.
 

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