722 reboots, 3rd replacement, what to do?

BigStig

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 9, 2008
21
0
I've been an "Americas Everything" Dish customer for about 5 years now. No complaints. I used to have a 625 and I've had a 722 for a couple of years. I've never had any problems with either receiver. In December, after over a year of flawless service, the hard drive failed on the 722. I called Dish, no problem, three days later I had a refurb 722 replacement.

About a week after setting up the "new" 722, I came home from work to find the 722 in some sort of reboot cycle. Powered up the TV, nothing from the 722. On the 722, the green power light would come on for 20 seconds, then it would shut off, then the fans would kick on high for about 10 seconds, then spin down. I could hear the HD in the 722 churning and making noise. Then it would be quiet for 10 minutes, then the green light would come on again for 20 seconds, and the cycle would repeat, apparently forever. When I hit the power button on the 722, after about 30 seconds it did power up as normal, but it had to do the "acquiring satellite signal" thing for a minute or two. Then it works as normal.

I didn't think much of it, until it happened again a few days later. This time, we realized that it had missed recording a couple of shows that it should have recorded during the overnight hours. Same cycle; hitting the power button brings it back to life, though often with "No Data" for all of the program guide until I force a check switch. Again, I thought maybe it was fluke, so we sort of ignored it. Happened again a few days later. The final straw, we were out of town one weekend and came back to find it rebooting and having missed the entire weekend's worth of shows that it was supposed to record. Nice. :rolleyes:

At that point I called Dish. We went through some troubleshooting procedures; checked some codes, signal strength fine, plugged into a surge vs. wall, reset, etc. They found nothing wrong, but they sent out another 722 after I explained to them that it really wasn't acceptable to have a DVR that misses programs because it's in a reboot loop.

The second replacement 722 does the exact same thing the day after I got it. I called again. Went through all of this troubleshooting, again, and got another replacement 722. And a curious anecdote about the second, when I was standing in line at the FedEX depot to return it to Dish, another guy walked in with a 722 boxed up and ready to go back. We chatted for a minute, his is doing the same thing. WTF! The woman behind the counter at FedEx overheard us and said, "oh yeah, we see 10-15 of those a week going back to Dish." Sweet . :rolleyes:

The third 722 seemed better for a couple of weeks. I thought the problem had gone away. Then about two weeks ago it started doing the same reboot thing. AGAIN. :mad: And now it's doing it almost every day.

It seems to go into this reboot loop sometime overnight when it does it's data check, and then just can't somehow recover unless a user intervenes to power it up. It's ok in the fact that it will come back to life (albeit often with no guide data until I force the check switch to refresh it), but it's missing shows that it should be recording.

So does anyone have any ideas of what I should do? I'm about at my wits end. I'm really just about ready to call DirecTV, as this just isn't acceptable and Dish seems to have no answers on how to resolve it. Should I call and demand an ugprade to a 722K? Or pay the difference and get a 922? Could there be something wrong with the LNB's that a tech needs to inspect? I just want a working 722 again, like the first one that was fine until its HD died...

Thanks for whatever advice you can provide!
 
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PopcornNMore

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2005
3,635
128
Gibsonia, PA
I had two VIP722 receivers go bad by automatically rebooting and causing video problems. Just this week they replaced the bad VIP722 with a brand new VIP722K receiver. Hopefully I won't be having anymore problems.

I know how frustrating it is and how you must feel. The technician that came to the house this time was excellent. He replaced a LNB, a piece of coax, corroded "F" fittings, replaced the low frequency barrel connector within wall plate with a high frequency barrel, gave us a brand new VIP722K receiver and two brand new remote controls at no charge.

He told us to remove the backing from our entertainment center, because the VIP722 and VIP722K receivers put out a lot of heat which might have caused the problems since the entertainment center also has glass doors on the front and no air can flow.
 

BigStig

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 9, 2008
21
0
Thanks for the response. My 722 sits in an open HT rack; no door, no rear panel, no sides, so airflow can't really be an issue for me. Did you call dish and specifically ask for a technician to come check it out? They have not offered to send anyone, though I have not asked. How did you get them to upgrade you to a 722k? Did they offer or did you ask?
 

DishTechPA

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 19, 2010
262
0
SW PA
Also check your power outlet for reverse polarity, also check if your dish is grounded. If it is grounded it is possible that something is backfeeding and causing your problem. There has to be something other than bad receivers.
 

BigStig

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 9, 2008
21
0
Also check your power outlet for reverse polarity, also check if your dish is grounded. If it is grounded it is possible that something is backfeeding and causing your problem. There has to be something other than bad receivers.

I'm not an electrician, but I've got an outlet tester. It indicates that the outlet is fine. I know that the technicians grounded the dish when they originally installed it (I asked - a friend of a friend once had a fire when a non-grounded dish got hit with lightning), but I haven't checked the ground point to see if maybe something's come loose. I guess it has been about 5 years. I will check it.

What is "backfeeding"? What can I do to check and/or prevent this? Call an electrician? ;)

I've had the 722 plugged into a Belkin PureAV PF60 surge protector & line conditioner since day one. Both the original 722 that worked fine and the subsequent ones that don't. At Dish's suggestion, I've tried plugging the 722 directly into the wall to see if helped. It didn't. It still reboots.

None of my other electronics have any problems, and the PF60 reports all is fine with the line (it has indications for polarity warnings, ground, volts, etc) , so I wouldn't think it's my power. I guess it could be. If it is, the 722 must be unusually sensitive to power problems. Not sure what would have changed with my power, the original 722 was just fine for over a year until its HD conked out.
 
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harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,889
2,929
Salem, OR
I'm wondering if you don't have some sort of high current draw in your coax cable system or LNB assembly. It is admittedly a bit of a reach, but it could explain why replacing the receiver isn't helping.
 

papalittle

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 19, 2005
1,375
1
Some old corn field, United States
Many 722's that I have had to replace with the same symptoms were caused by faulty software updates. Sometimes they would start working after unplugging them for an hour or so, that way they were all cooled down then plugging them back in. Then there are some that just would not do anything.

One thing to try is disconnect the ground wire at the ground block and quickly touch the wire to the ground block to see if you get a spark there, if you do you have a grounding issue at that outlet. I see this on older homes quite often.
 

BigStig

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 9, 2008
21
0
Thanks for the continued good advice. I really appreciate it.

So one vote for bad power, one vote for a messed up LNB, and another vote for a bad software update. Should I call Dish and ask that they send a technician to come check it out? What's that going to cost? And if he can't find anything, then what, should I have an electrician check the circuit?
 

nezerach

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 15, 2009
31
0
Wyoming
3rd reciever replaced because of rebooting and overheating? i would believe you have a bad cable or connection causing an electrical short. also check the connectors outside for signs of water migration (rusty stingers).
 

bgnewb

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 30, 2011
47
0
Sadieville, KY
Hi guys,

i have been creeping this forum for a cpl years now and this is my first post. Thanks for all the info over the years!!!

I am in the same boat as the OP. I am on my second 722k. This morning it was stuck in reboot mode. Last Friday it rebooted in the middle of recording Fringe. I have no idea why it does this. I also have a open entertainment center so heat is not a issue.
I just came back to dish from direct(my bad). I left dish for direct because of this exact issue. Right before i left dish, i was on my 5th receiver, they were 1st generation(gray box) but come on!!! I have come to except this reboot thing because there is nothing i can do about it. In my opinion it is software related.
 

SaltiDawg

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 1, 2004
1,027
36
... I have come to except this reboot thing because there is nothing i can do about it. In my opinion it is software related.

Welcome!

Your assertion that the problem is Dish 722k software related would seemingly beg the question as to why there are all the rest of us with 722ks that do not have the problem.

You said you'd had five ealier non-722k failures in the past and now two 722k failures. I'm not sure how you've concluded it is software related. :confused:
 

bgnewb

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 30, 2011
47
0
Sadieville, KY
Welcome!

Your assertion that the problem is Dish 722k software related would seemingly beg the question as to why there are all the rest of us with 722ks that do not have the problem.

You said you'd had five ealier non-722k failures in the past and now two 722k failures. I'm not sure how you've concluded it is software related. :confused:

Thanks for the welcome!!! I am simply making my conclusion. I do not know why else there is "a" problem. If it is not a software problem then what else would it be? Hardware related? Could be drivers or firmware, but i again, do not know why it is happening.
There are 2 things i have come to accept from the 722 and 722k: Audio drop outs and random reboots
 

SaltiDawg

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 1, 2004
1,027
36
... If it is not a software problem then what else would it be? Hardware related? Could be drivers or firmware, but i again, do not know why it is happening.
There are 2 things i have come to accept from the 722 and 722k: Audio drop outs and random reboots
Read this thread from the start. Other possible problems included electrical power, coax grounding, nicked coax, etc.

As an example, I have a 722k and it does not have audio dropouts nor random reboots. This in and of itself proves nothing, but I'd suggest that your seven receiver failures involving two different models suggests that it may well be an installation or environment problem in your home.

Does your local power utility have fluctuations in line voltage? Power losses? Lots of other possibilities, I suspect.
 
Mar 31, 2011
7
0
Colorado
I work to fix issues in this regard. And this may be helpful:

A Dish customer had a 625 (SD, DVR) receiver for years. They have never had a problem with it. They upgraded their receiver to the 722 (HD, DVR of course). That same day after the installation, the 722 was continuously rebooting and unresponsive to remote control commands at intermittent times. Sometimes a video signal would be retrieved, but the receiver would inevitably reset moments later or sometimes not come on at all. The customer called technical support and they went through the typical troubleshooting steps (hard resetting, cable fittings tight, etc etc). The issue was not resolved. He was sent a replacement 722 by UPS.

Once he replaced the new receiver, it worked for about 3 hours. The issue came back. He called Dish service again. They insisted a tech to roll out and find the issue.

The tech came and replaced the 722 with a 722K as he/she was aware of how much more stable the "K" series is. Hours later, the receiver began to have the same issue. Rebooting and unable to turn on completely and reliably.

A second technician was called out and was informed of the history of this issue. The tech spent 3 hours researching the problem by replacing the LNBF, all connectors in the cable run, replacing the diplexers, wall plate barrels, cable splice barrels, and anything else that could be troublesome to the system. In other words, everything but the cable was replaced. The cable was mostly interior wiring and was a last resort. The problem persisted regardless of all the attempts. What else could it be? With careful dissecting of the problem, the solution was found. Obviously, the cable was the last remaining factor, but how could we determine that the cable was the issue in the first place?

The 625 the customer had before the 722 was a standard definition receiver operating off the 110 and 119 orbitals in this area. These were the standard orbitals used years before all this fancy HD equipment came out. The old "Legacy" receivers were able to pick these orbitals. There was no need to replace low-frequency barrels, to a degree, because the frequency was never truly high enough to be a problem with these orbital locations. Don't believe me? Look on the back of the Legacy receivers or some older single tuner receivers and see the low-frequency barrel as the satellite port input.

Now, with the introduction of HD equipment, we needed the 129 orbital in this location. The 129 orbital sends out a higher frequency on some transponders. Specifically, transponder 2 in this region, was the highest frequency transmit. And sadly, transponder 2 is one of the most commonly used transponder in this region because that provides customers local channels here. What does this mean to HD customers with a possible weak cable? If the higher frequencies are continuously passed through lower-quality cable or mildly damaged cable, it may not make it through completely OR may ruin the cable in some way. The HD receivers are highly sensitive to this as you could imagine due to the rebooting. The 722Ks were built to help be less sensitive to this problem but the problem never truly leaves the equation in the long run.

So, with all this information, what was the final solution for this customer? Through a tough amount of tracing, the problem cable was found with a staple pinching the cable too tightly. After replacing the entire cable, the customer never had a problem with it again. At least not yet =P The 625 receiver could somehow handle what was happening with the cable (whether it really was the staple or not), but the new HD signal was definitely causing the problems in the cable to magnify.

But this is all just educated speculation. Who knows? haha!
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,889
2,929
Salem, OR
A neat yarn, but that's not really how it works.

If both the 625 and 722 were using either DP or DPP, there are no new IF frequencies introduced. The IF frequencies don't change with the satellite slot and you're just as likely to find 129W on the lower band as you are on the high band depending on which tuner needs to see it.

DP sends out one (even AND odd) orbital slot per cable while DPP sends out half (even OR odd) of two orbital slots per cable (unless both tuners need the same slot in which case it looks like DP).
 
Mar 31, 2011
7
0
Colorado
I'm following you and agree.

The information I gathered to reply on this thread was from a DISH trainer about a year ago. He was showing me different frequencies per transponder on different satellite orbitals and we clearly saw stronger frequencies in some of the 129 orbitals on a satellite meter. That information I provided, then, may be outdated or changed in some way. Or the trainer may not have known what he was really talking about at the time lol.

It made sense to me, however, because of many problems people were having with their SD to HD transition. The ending to the overall story is that the cable was causing these reboots despite all the other "obvious" issues that COULD have been causing the problem. Techs usually do not like to replace cable and save it for a last resort due to how time consuming it can be and also because the next cable run may have to be ran along the exterior siding instead of internal.
 

SaltiDawg

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 1, 2004
1,027
36
I'm following you and agree.

.... Techs usually do not like to replace cable and save it for a last resort due to how time consuming it can be and also because the next cable run may have to be ran along the exterior siding instead of internal.
Also, except possibly to use a recepticle power checker, the Tech likely would not be able to address electric power issues either.
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,889
2,929
Salem, OR
He was showing me different frequencies per transponder on different satellite orbitals and we clearly saw stronger frequencies in some of the 129 orbitals on a satellite meter. That information I provided, then, may be outdated or changed in some way.
The information wasn't wrong, just the way it was interpreted. Satellite signal strength has little to do with what goes to the receiver. The LNB converts what it sees to the lower frequencies and retransmits it down the cable. The signal strength is whatever the LNB amplifier puts out.
It made sense to me, however, because of many problems people were having with their SD to HD transition. The ending to the overall story is that the cable was causing these reboots despite all the other "obvious" issues that COULD have been causing the problem.
The EA and WA LNB assemblies probably take more power to run so if the cable is compromised, it probably heats up faster and starves out the LNB assembly.
 

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