722K Signal Level Low

[tmal14]

I’ve been a long time reader of this forum but this is my first post. I never had a reason to post any tech questions b/c I never really had anything major happen. Now out of the blue I have been having some signal issues lately and want to know if anyone can help me out or at least give me an idea of what I should tell dish when I call for service.

A little background….

I originally had the 625, with the Dish 1000 pointed at 110, 119 and 129. For three years with this set up I never had any issues. Except for some short periods of rain fade during very heavy storms, and snow drifting on my roof. I never lost the signal for a significant amount of time or had any trouble with my DVR. Where my dish is located I have a very clear line of sight, and even when the dish was installed the installer commented that the location on my roof is ideal.

In August I decided to upgrade to the 722k with the OTA module. Since my dish already got 110, 119, and 129 is was basically a receiver swap. The day I had the install done Dish was having problems on their end doing new activations so my receiver didn’t activate until I called it in later in the evening. At that time I noticed I was getting an LNB drift error. Ran check switch after check switch, plugged in and unplugged and it didn’t go away. I called dish and they sent out someone to check the LNB and he replaced all of them. After that the LNB drift error went away. Everything was working fine.

Since the fall season is starting I decided to head up into the attic and get my antenna hooked up to the OTA module. I have everything hooked up and manage signal levels around 80-95 on ABC, NBC, FOX and CBS, however these signals do bounce around a bit and sometimes I get the 739 error code for a second or two.

Now all of a sudden I get a lost sat. signal from “sat 110 transponder 31” and have also gotten it on “119 transpoder 11 ( I think it was 11)” usually this happens when I’m changing the channel or going to a channel through the guide. It doesn’t happen when I’m watching a program.

I’ve checked my signal levels on 110 and it is hovering around 50 with a green bar but low tone. I know this is much, much lower then what I used to have on my 625 or even on the 722k before the OTA was installed. 119 and 129 are at signal level 70-75 with a higher tone.

Are these signal levels normal? Should I be concered?

I know I have read of issues with the OTA module causing issues, is that happening here?

Should my dish be replaced/repointed? Is that something that should have been done when I upgraded to the 722k. Even though my dish could see the correct sats, was I entitled to a new one? The installer for the receiver did say I have the “older model” but it didn’t need to be placed because it could pick up the correct satellites.

I live on the east side of Cleveland and have software L655 if that matters.

Thanks!!

 

[whatchel1]

Pull OTA module

I’ve been a long time reader of this forum but this is my first post. I never had a reason to post any tech questions b/c I never really had anything major happen. Now out of the blue I have been having some signal issues lately and want to know if anyone can help me out or at least give me an idea of what I should tell dish when I call for service.

A little background….

I originally had the 625, with the Dish 1000 pointed at 110, 119 and 129. For three years with this set up I never had any issues. Except for some short periods of rain fade during very heavy storms, and snow drifting on my roof. I never lost the signal for a significant amount of time or had any trouble with my DVR. Where my dish is located I have a very clear line of sight, and even when the dish was installed the installer commented that the location on my roof is ideal.

In August I decided to upgrade to the 722k with the OTA module. Since my dish already got 110, 119, and 129 is was basically a receiver swap. The day I had the install done Dish was having problems on their end doing new activations so my receiver didn’t activate until I called it in later in the evening. At that time I noticed I was getting an LNB drift error. Ran check switch after check switch, plugged in and unplugged and it didn’t go away. I called dish and they sent out someone to check the LNB and he replaced all of them. After that the LNB drift error went away. Everything was working fine.

Since the fall season is starting I decided to head up into the attic and get my antenna hooked up to the OTA module. I have everything hooked up and manage signal levels around 80-95 on ABC, NBC, FOX and CBS, however these signals do bounce around a bit and sometimes I get the 739 error code for a second or two.

Now all of a sudden I get a lost sat. signal from “sat 110 transponder 31” and have also gotten it on “119 transpoder 11 ( I think it was 11)” usually this happens when I’m changing the channel or going to a channel through the guide. It doesn’t happen when I’m watching a program.

I’ve checked my signal levels on 110 and it is hovering around 50 with a green bar but low tone. I know this is much, much lower then what I used to have on my 625 or even on the 722k before the OTA was installed. 119 and 129 are at signal level 70-75 with a higher tone.

Are these signal levels normal? Should I be concered?

I know I have read of issues with the OTA module causing issues, is that happening here?

Should my dish be replaced/repointed? Is that something that should have been done when I upgraded to the 722k. Even though my dish could see the correct sats, was I entitled to a new one? The installer for the receiver did say I have the “older model” but it didn’t need to be placed because it could pick up the correct satellites.

I live on the east side of Cleveland and have software L655 if that matters.

Thanks!!

Was the OTA module installed when they put the unit in? If so that is the problem. This unit has to have the sat system done first with out the OTA in it then the module installed and scanned for OTA. So go ahead and pull the OTA and do a check switch. Then unplug the unit and install the OTA and scan for the locals should cure your problem.

 

[cditty]

If you lose signal (OTA or Satellite), you will get that error. It will tell you signal lost on the current channel you are viewing. If you hit guide, the picture will come back.

It is a software bug and I have notified them of it. When I lose signal in the rain, I can't watch my locals without this happening over and over again.

Both of my 722K's do the same thing.

 

[highdefjeff]

I’ve been a long time reader of this forum but this is my first post. I never had a reason to post any tech questions b/c I never really had anything major happen. Now out of the blue I have been having some signal issues lately and want to know if anyone can help me out or at least give me an idea of what I should tell dish when I call for service.

A little background….

I originally had the 625, with the Dish 1000 pointed at 110, 119 and 129. For three years with this set up I never had any issues. Except for some short periods of rain fade during very heavy storms, and snow drifting on my roof. I never lost the signal for a significant amount of time or had any trouble with my DVR. Where my dish is located I have a very clear line of sight, and even when the dish was installed the installer commented that the location on my roof is ideal.

In August I decided to upgrade to the 722k with the OTA module. Since my dish already got 110, 119, and 129 is was basically a receiver swap. The day I had the install done Dish was having problems on their end doing new activations so my receiver didn’t activate until I called it in later in the evening. At that time I noticed I was getting an LNB drift error. Ran check switch after check switch, plugged in and unplugged and it didn’t go away. I called dish and they sent out someone to check the LNB and he replaced all of them. After that the LNB drift error went away. Everything was working fine.

Since the fall season is starting I decided to head up into the attic and get my antenna hooked up to the OTA module. I have everything hooked up and manage signal levels around 80-95 on ABC, NBC, FOX and CBS, however these signals do bounce around a bit and sometimes I get the 739 error code for a second or two.

Now all of a sudden I get a lost sat. signal from “sat 110 transponder 31” and have also gotten it on “119 transpoder 11 ( I think it was 11)” usually this happens when I’m changing the channel or going to a channel through the guide. It doesn’t happen when I’m watching a program.

I’ve checked my signal levels on 110 and it is hovering around 50 with a green bar but low tone. I know this is much, much lower then what I used to have on my 625 or even on the 722k before the OTA was installed. 119 and 129 are at signal level 70-75 with a higher tone.

Are these signal levels normal? Should I be concered?

I know I have read of issues with the OTA module causing issues, is that happening here?

Should my dish be replaced/repointed? Is that something that should have been done when I upgraded to the 722k. Even though my dish could see the correct sats, was I entitled to a new one? The installer for the receiver did say I have the “older model” but it didn’t need to be placed because it could pick up the correct satellites.

I live on the east side of Cleveland and have software L655 if that matters.

Thanks!!

Your signals are lower because the 722k is a more complex machine with additional features. These added components add more noise (intrinsic noise-built-in noise). When you integrated the OTA module you just added enough more noise to lower your SNR (which increase your bit error rate) to just about failure.

Also HD receivers need much more information to render the picture than do non HD receivers. If you were to remove the 722k and replace it again with the 625, you would see that your signal would go back to where it was.

Bottom line: 50 isn't good enough. Get a repoint.

 

[highdefjeff]

If you lose signal (OTA or Satellite), you will get that error. It will tell you signal lost on the current channel you are viewing. If you hit guide, the picture will come back.

It is a software bug and I have notified them of it. When I lose signal in the rain, I can't watch my locals without this happening over and over again.

Both of my 722K's do the same thing.

It's really not a software bug. It's a signal issue. But you're happy with the answer and they don't have to send someone out to repeak your dish or check your system for cable problems.

 

[cditty]

It's really not a software bug. It's a signal issue. But you're happy with the answer and they don't have to send someone out to repeak your dish or check your system for cable problems.

No Jeff, it is a software bug. They verified that fact to me. I don't have low signal. I have very high signal on everything. Satellite & OTA. I never said I had signal in the 50's. The OP did. I just offered an answer that is accurate. If it was not a software issue, pressing one button on my remote wouldn't bring everything back.

 

[whatchel1]

I've recently seen that a 722k will lock and hold perfect signals if the SS is only 17. So a SS of 50 is well into the margin of safety zone. It isn't a SS problem it is a confirmed S/W problem. highdefjeff you asked me not long ago what the number is you got it now. A 722k will keep perfect digital picture as long as the signals are above the 20.

 

[cummingsje]

No Jeff, it is a software bug. They verified that fact to me. I don't have low signal. I have very high signal on everything. Satellite & OTA. I never said I had signal in the 50's. The OP did. I just offered an answer that is accurate. If it was not a software issue, pressing one button on my remote wouldn't bring everything back.

Most definitely a software issue. You need to tune to a strong OTA station before tuning to a satellite station to "make the problem disappear".

 

[highdefjeff]

No Jeff, it is a software bug. They verified that fact to me. I don't have low signal. I have very high signal on everything. Satellite & OTA. I never said I had signal in the 50's. The OP did. I just offered an answer that is accurate. If it was not a software issue, pressing one button on my remote wouldn't bring everything back.

I've been disturbed about this post since your reply. I am sorry for the way it sounds. I failed to leave sarcasm out and I am sorry for that. My intent was to say that, "Not everything that Dish calls a software issue, is actually a software issue."

Digital receivers often "lock-up" or freeze picture when the signal is lost. It is a signal issue.

One of you said, "You need to tune to a strong OTA station before tuning to a satellite station to "make the problem disappear". Why? because one of your many tuners gets locked up from signal that is too low.

cditty, you say you have good signal on your later post, but your earlier post says "If you lose signal (OTA or Satellite), you will get that error.When I lose signal in the rain, I can't watch my locals without this happening over and over again." Why? Because your signals are marginal and during rain fade you have a number of signals that are too low causing repeated issues as the signals fluctuate during the storm. Lightning creates burst errors, wind and rain decrease and cause fluctuations to signal. These spikes in noise and lowering of signal strength cause drops in signal that cause the loss of signal error.

The OP's signal has been lowered due to added noise and components. He wasn't having an issue, and now he does.

Aren't all of these posts describing loss of signal that causes the problem?

Regarding this statement, "If it was not a software issue, pressing one button on my remote wouldn't bring everything back." Why wouldn't pressing one button bring it back? Could you explain how you came up with that?

I am only trying to educate and speak the truth. I apologize again for my attitude that came through earlier.

 

[magnum2066]

Going to Menu-->System Setup-->Installation-->System Info--> And then details should give you previous satellite signals over the past hour/half hour. It may show a trend of signal loss or low signal and if so, it should be the main issue.

 

[cditty]

I've been disturbed about this post since your reply. I am sorry for the way it sounds. I failed to leave sarcasm out and I am sorry for that. My intent was to say that, "Not everything that Dish calls a software issue, is actually a software issue."

Digital receivers often "lock-up" or freeze picture when the signal is lost. It is a signal issue.

One of you said, "You need to tune to a strong OTA station before tuning to a satellite station to "make the problem disappear". Why? because one of your many tuners gets locked up from signal that is too low.

cditty, you say you have good signal on your later post, but your earlier post says "If you lose signal (OTA or Satellite), you will get that error.When I lose signal in the rain, I can't watch my locals without this happening over and over again." Why? Because your signals are marginal and during rain fade you have a number of signals that are too low causing repeated issues as the signals fluctuate during the storm. Lightning creates burst errors, wind and rain decrease and cause fluctuations to signal. These spikes in noise and lowering of signal strength cause drops in signal that cause the loss of signal error.

The OP's signal has been lowered due to added noise and components. He wasn't having an issue, and now he does.

Aren't all of these posts describing loss of signal that causes the problem?

Regarding this statement, "If it was not a software issue, pressing one button on my remote wouldn't bring everything back." Why wouldn't pressing one button bring it back? Could you explain how you came up with that?

I am only trying to educate and speak the truth. I apologize again for my attitude that came through earlier.

It boils down to this. In a severe, balls to the wall thunderstorm, I lose signal (It is in the upper 70's on 110/119 & 60's on 129). But rain fade can not be escaped in SEVERE storms.

The bug is this. I never lose OTA signal. It is constant. If you lose a satellite signal (110, 119, or 129), the 722K software will read a signal loss error and give you the signal error screen. It does this even if you are watching the OTA you have signal on. Pressing guide will make it 'see' that you have OTA signal and put the picture back. As it continues to try to acquire sat signal in the background, it eventually times out and throws the error back up.

The software bug is that a loss of satellite signal should not make the 722K fail to show OTA.

It can be reproduced by disconnecting the satellite feed while watching OTA.

Is that clear now?

I would say my signal is far from moderate. I wasn't saying I lose signal all the time, but when I do, this bug rears its ugly head. I can flip over to my tv tuner and watch fine, while I wait for the 722K to get it back together.

 

[highdefjeff]

Thank you for the explanation.

I do hope that they will solve the problem with software or re-design.

Ultimately, it is the loss of signal that causes the problem.

As I have stated before 66 is the minimum, with a little headroom.