97w and 99w on a fixed dish (1 Viewer)

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FTAer0024

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SatelliteGuys Family
May 17, 2011
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Sunny North FLA
Greetings to all members. How would I go about installing two LNBFs on a fixed dish to receive 97w and 99w programming?? I have no prior experience with multiple LNBFs on the same dish. My development path was, I went from a fixed Ku dish to a motorized Ku dish. Now, my dad lives in a condo, and he doesn't want his dish motorized after he heard the noise from my SG9120 going from 30w to 125w :) He had enough hassles with the mgmt office to get them to approve the dish on his balcony, and afraid that the neighbors will complain about weird noises coming from his apartment after dark :) the stations he's interested in are on those two sats, so I think he can receive them without the motor. All help will be appreciated, as always.

Thanks,
Ben
 

Jim S.

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Jan 2, 2006
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You're pretty much not going to be able to do that, unless you cut the feedhorns down to enable them to be placed closer together. Even 4 degrees is tough to do with standard LNBFs.

What channels does he want to watch? Depending on how strong the signals are, you might be able to get some channels from both satellites by putting the dish halfway between them, but you certainly won't get all of them, and it'll go down a lot quicker in bad weather.
 

carlospr43

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2010
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US
99W and 97W C band are too close. You may try 99W C band and 97W Ku band attaching the LNB by the side. Something that I did and it works is pointing 103W as main and them attached either one 97W or 99W on the side.
 

polgyver

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Sep 21, 2010
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99W and 97W C band are too close. You may try 99W C band and 97W Ku band attaching the LNB by the side. Something that I did and it works is pointing 103W as main and them attached either one 97W or 99W on the side.

Would it be practical to receive C - band on a condo balcony? If yes, what programs there are interesting? Regards, polgyver
 

SatelliteAV

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Sep 3, 2004
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Greetings to all members. How would I go about installing two LNBFs on a fixed dish to receive 97w and 99w programming??

There is no off the shelf solution for receiving satellites separated by two degrees. A SatelliteGuys member, Wescopc took 2 GEOSATpro SL1 LNBFs and ground down the case and scalar with a belt sander so they would sit next to each other close enough to receive satellites spaced 2 degrees apart. See thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/151258-building-1-2-meter-dish-2%B0.html#post1550517

As far as the noise produced from a HH motor running 2 degrees, it certainly would be a minimal low noise that would last for less than 1 second. I doubt that it would even be noticed. Now running the dish across the arc.... now that will take awhile and probably would attract attention!
 

SatelliteAV

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Mikey11 said:
a two degree seperation would be impossible on a fixed dish

Evidently you missed the previous post?

Never say IMPOSSIBLE unless it is! LOL!!!

Two degree reception is possible when the scalar and feedhorn are modified. I have successfully modified two GEOSATpro SL1 LNBFs and mounted on a 90cm dish. Similar to Wescopc's modification, it just takes a measuring tape, a few power tools and some silicone sealant.

First, I mounted a SL1 in a single clamp with the left side of the clamp ground off. Peaked the dish aiming for 99w then removed the LNBF. Next I set the receiver to 97w and held the LNBF into the 2nd position to the left side of the clamp. Once the quality reading was peaked I measured the distance from the center of the 2nd position to the center of the clamp.

For the GEOSATpro 90cm dish, I believe the measurement was around 30mm from center to center. I started by grinding about 10mm from the inside of each LNBF. I continued to shave in 1mm increments off of each LNBF scalar until the Quality reading was peaked. Applied a bead of silicone around the scalar and feedhorn, cut the feedhorn covers and welded them together with a heat gun.

During additional testing I found that it wasn't very critical to keep the feedhorn at an exact 90degree angle to the reflector as long as the throat of the feedhorn was in the sweet spot. Seem to recall that there was approximately a 10% drop in Quality readings, but still provided ample threshold .
 

Mikey11

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Nov 9, 2009
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canada
Evidently you missed the previous post?

my answer was based on the original posters information and experience (or lack of it, no offense intended)....

when he makes a comment like this....

I have no prior experience with multiple LNBFs on the same dish.

im not going to start recommending or advising him to modify and hack away at his LNBs....he needs to learn to walk before he can start running....

i do however appreciate your post, it is good info to know....
 

FTAer0024

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 17, 2011
88
0
Sunny North FLA
Mikey, no offense taken :)

Brian - thanks for your detailed replies! I will attempt to accomplish this in the coming weeks.

my answer was based on the original posters information and experience (or lack of it, no offense intended)....

when he makes a comment like this....



im not going to start recommending or advising him to modify and hack away at his LNBs....he needs to learn to walk before he can start running....

i do however appreciate your post, it is good info to know....
 

carlospr43

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2010
967
12
US
I remembered keeping a copy of the photo. Brian: Have you tryo to find someone who can build this for you??? It will be great to have this product with this spec out there in the market!!

35854572.jpg 42107903.jpg
 

SatelliteAV

SatelliteGuys Master
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Sep 3, 2004
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We had investigated a 2 degree solution for a private customer, but the broadcaster never launched their service. I had modified the sample as a proof of concept for the customer.

It would be worth producing if there was a customer committing to 20,000 or 30,000 units. Otherwise, the market is too niche and the cost per unit would be astronomical.

Remember that the unit would be designed for the convergence of a specific dish. Not only would the customer purchase a 2 degree monoblock, but would also need to purchase a new dish as well. Despite what other manufacturers state on their websites about their monoblock product working on any dish.... This simply is false.
 

FTAer0024

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 17, 2011
88
0
Sunny North FLA
I did some experimenting yesterday, and I was able to receive 99w with the dish pointed straight at 97w, with 60+ quality. This was done with two LNBFs zip tied together. I tested them one at a time since, I didn't have a switch, but the reception was stable. I will post some pictures later. The distance between LNB throats was much larger it's supposed to be for 2 degree reception, but it still worked. Maybe my dish does not have a clearly defined focal point, and I benefited from it.. don't know.

We had investigated a 2 degree solution for a private customer, but the broadcaster never launched their service. I had modified the sample as a proof of concept for the customer.

It would be worth producing if there was a customer committing to 20,000 or 30,000 units. Otherwise, the market is too niche and the cost per unit would be astronomical.

Remember that the unit would be designed for the convergence of a specific dish. Not only would the customer purchase a 2 degree monoblock, but would also need to purchase a new dish as well. Despite what other manufacturers state on their websites about their monoblock product working on any dish.... This simply is false.
 

carlospr43

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2010
967
12
US
Ftaer
what channels do you get in 99W on ku band??? or at least what TP do you use to say you are getting good reception for???
Thanks
 

Tron

SatelliteGuys Master
May 6, 2005
6,599
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Metro New Orleans, LA
I did some experimenting yesterday, and I was able to receive 99w with the dish pointed straight at 97w, with 60+ quality. This was done with two LNBFs zip tied together. I tested them one at a time since, I didn't have a switch, but the reception was stable. I will post some pictures later. The distance between LNB throats was much larger it's supposed to be for 2 degree reception, but it still worked. Maybe my dish does not have a clearly defined focal point, and I benefited from it.. don't know.

I doubt that it was 99W that you were actually receiving. With bullet LNBFs basically touching each other, they receive four degrees of separation on a 90CM dish. You were probably receiving 97 and 101 at the same time. Remember, the satellite receiver can't tell which satellite you are pointed at. It may be set at 99W, but you may be scanning transponders from a completely different satellite. The only way to know for sure is to check which channels you are picking up against Lyngsat or TheList.
 

FTAer0024

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 17, 2011
88
0
Sunny North FLA
Tron, it was 99w.. the channels match TheList for this sat.. I verified it by USALS moving the dish to 99w, and the same channels were available now through the other LNBF (the permanently mounted one).

I doubt that it was 99W that you were actually receiving. With bullet LNBFs basically touching each other, they receive four degrees of separation on a 90CM dish. You were probably receiving 97 and 101 at the same time. Remember, the satellite receiver can't tell which satellite you are pointed at. It may be set at 99W, but you may be scanning transponders from a completely different satellite. The only way to know for sure is to check which channels you are picking up against Lyngsat or TheList.
 
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