A better OTA solution please (1 Viewer)

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aa9vi

SatelliteGuys Guru
Sep 14, 2007
139
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A message to DirecTV Finance and Engineering teams:

PLEASE add an OTA channel scan in your next OTA receiver, preferably IN a HD or HD DVR satellite receiver. The H20 has it. It's great!

The HR20 does not. HR21 does not either... and it requires an ADDITIONAL box.
The new H23 does not have an OTA tuner and from what I have read does not even work with the AM21. I don't get the idea of having yet another box in my entertainment center. I already have a bunch of boxes in there already. Hey D*, why not do something BETTER than E* and have a ONE BOX SOLUTION for your consumers?

How much are you saving by leaving this out? $10 per box? Anyone have that figure? It's going to be increasingly clear that leaving out the OTA tuner is stupid once we get used to the digital subchannels. You can't put all the subchannels on the satellite, they take up too much bandwidth. Even if you try, you'll have to overly compress the signals and sacrifice picture quality. There are people that live in between markets that need the OTA scan also.

So, I am PLEADING with you D*, DELIVER A VERSATILE, ONE BOX HD and HD-DVR SATELLITE OTA with channel scan SOLUTION to us. Keep your customers happy by making it simple and versatile.


Thank you.
 
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jcrandall

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Apr 3, 2005
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I don't think this is coming back. They will be adding HD locals very quickly with the new satellite starting in August, and will have capacity for 1500 locals. That is enough for nearly the entire nations big 4, PBS, and some extras too (cw/my)
 

jcrandall

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Apr 3, 2005
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As for allowing the software to scan, I think if it was coming they would have done it by now.

They will have their hands full in Feburary when stations start moving around following the analog shutoff. Perhaps that will motivate them, but I still am not counting on it.
 

Jimbo

SatelliteGuys Master
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Jul 14, 2005
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NW Ohio - Buckeye Country
Jason,
I agree with everything aa9vi mentioned and have said the same previously.
I see no reason for them to remove the OTA funtion, I cannot imagine it being anything that would cost them much in the over all scheme of things.
What it probably comes down to is D* hoping to have sub get thier locals from D* which is fine, but I think they are trying to make it so that is the only option.

My locals are not available in HD yet and still require a 2nd dish at the moment, I'm presuming that , that will change when the new sat gets operational.

That said, some of us like our ability to get OTA channels.
Also, when storms roll thru, I normally go to the locals, if the storm is to bad I would lose my locals on the dish at the moment that they are needed most.
I don't lose signal often , but losing locals in the bad weather would be really bad.

Maybe they could find a way to take the local OTA signal and run it thru thier rec. so they would be intergrated into the guide like they are now.

I have no problem changing off the sat onto my TV's tuner, but it much more practical to be able to access them thru the D* box.

I would like to see what they gave for the reason to go away from an OTA tuner in the boxes .... then to go back and make provisions to get them back for the HR21's.
I would have hoped that seeing the went out and made a OTA for the HR21 that they would see that people DO want them in the D* box.

I hope they do decide to put OTA's back into the next generations of boxes.

Jimbo
 

rad

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Sep 7, 2003
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I see no reason for them to remove the OTA funtion, I cannot imagine it being anything that would cost them much in the over all scheme of things.

That's not the way American corporations work, they'll do whatever they can to reduce their costs and increase their shareholders value, which also many times will increase their officers compensation.

Say that removing the ATSC tuners from the boxes saves them $30/box. If DirecTV makes 1,000,000 HD STBs, either DVR's nor Non-DVR's that's $30,000,000 in savings, no small change. And as it's been said, you can put a ATSC tuner(s) back in your HR21's just pay them $50 and it's yours, which is still $49 less then what HR20's with the ATSC tuners built in cost.
 
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Jimbo

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That's not the way American corporations work, they'll do whatever they can to reduce their costs and increase their shareholders value, which also many times will increase their officers compensation.

Say that removing the ATSC tuners from the boxes saves them $30/box. If DirecTV makes 1,000,000 HD STBs, either DVR's nor Non-DVR's that's $30,000,000 in savings, no small change. And as it's been said, you can put a ATSC tuner(s) back in your HR21's just pay them $50 and it's yours, which is still $49 less then what HR20's with the ATSC tuners built in cost.

Why make it so difficult, if they would have left them in there in the first place you would not have to add, to get what you use to have.
This way you need another box in your scenario that would otherwise already be there.

They must not care about those that cannot get their locals thru thier service, your already forced to pay an addl. $ pm to get them via the sat, what happens when you cannot get your locals during bad weather ?

I sure am glad I can get mine OTA, I just won't have them in the guide, which I really thought was a great improvement back in the beginning, this is exactly why I upgraded my D* equipment back when the newer (at the time) HD rec's came out.

This is about the only thing for the most part that I disagree about with them equipment wise.
Taking the OTA scan feature away was another dumb thing, but I can live with it, (wonder how often they update thier Zip Code populated list)

Jimbo
 
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rad

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Why make it so difficult, if they would have left them in there in the firstplace you would not have to add, to get what you use to have.


Jimbo, I'll say it again:

MONEY

Cars used to come with ash trays and cigarette lighters standard, gone now on many models unless you pay for them.

You used to get free meals on airplanes and check two bags for free, gone unless you pay extra.

I've seen some cars where they've removed the outside keylock on the passenger door.

There used to be 26 weeks of new TV shows per season, now you're luck if you get 20 or 21.


And adding a AM21 isn't difficult, move the AC power cord from the HR21 to the AM21, use the supplied USB cable to connect both boxes, those are the only two additional things you need to do for connecting an AM21, connecting the OTA cable and going through the OTA setup is something you'd also need to do with the HR20's. Yes, it is another box, about 1" tall that can go above or under the HR21.
 

scottie_h

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 22, 2004
615
0
Cologne, MN
Why make it so difficult, if they would have left them in there in the first place you would not have to add, to get what you use to have.
This way you need another box in your scenario that would otherwise already be there.
money, money, money

They must not care about those that cannot get their locals thru thier service, your already forced to pay an addl. $ pm to get them via the sat, what happens when you cannot get your locals during bad weather ?
If they didn't care, there would be no AM21 as an option.

I sure am glad I can get mine OTA, I just won't have them in the guide, which I really thought was a great improvement back in the beginning, this is exactly why I upgraded my D* equipment back when the newer (at the time) HD rec's came out.
With the use of the AM21, all OTA are in the guide.

I'm not saying I love the fact that they pulled the tuner, but I certainly understand why. Even at a difference of only $10/receiver (I would think it would be more than that), using the 1,000,000 boxes example above, that's still $10,000,000 less into the equipment. As much as many of us here tend to forget, the vast majority of D* customers have absolutely zero interest in using an antenna. We are truly in the minority. So pulling an option that is used by very few in the grand scheme of things makes perfect business sense. And for those that do want it, they still offer the option at a relatively cheap one time price of $50 (if not less - I got mine for free).

A public company's obligations are to the shareholders - hopefully most of them still cater to customers at the same time...
 

atp1313

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 1, 2005
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Goose Creek, SC
What's the cost savings of removing the ATSC tuner from 1,000,000 DVR's vs the cost to design, build, distribute and service the AM21 to 100,000 customers? Is that 10% a wash or a clear savings?

I have two HR20-700's and am apparently somewhat lost on the general complaint of the channel scan. When you input your ZIP on the HR21/23 (with the AM21), does it not display all primary and subchannels like the HR20 does, allowing you to check/uncheck the channels you want displayed in the EPG? Are subchannels completely blocked out of the AM21 units?
 

hancox

Pub Member / UConnaholic
Supporting Founder
Nov 23, 2003
3,584
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Monroe, CT
I have two HR20-700's and am apparently somewhat lost on the general complaint of the channel scan. When you input your ZIP on the HR21/23 (with the AM21), does it not display all primary and subchannels like the HR20 does, allowing you to check/uncheck the channels you want displayed in the EPG? Are subchannels completely blocked out of the AM21 units?

Sort of. Scanning would be a benefit when:

1) The Zap2It guide data gets out of whack / misreported / etc (This is probably the majority of scanning need for most)

2) You can actually reach > 2 DMA's OTA (not many, but they're out there)

3) DTV migration - all kinds of moves / shifts coming (really a subset of #1 )


I, too, wish they had this.
 

Bob Nielsen

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 22, 2006
1,721
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Bainbridge Island, WA
What's the cost savings of removing the ATSC tuner from 1,000,000 DVR's vs the cost to design, build, distribute and service the AM21 to 100,000 customers? Is that 10% a wash or a clear savings?

I have two HR20-700's and am apparently somewhat lost on the general complaint of the channel scan. When you input your ZIP on the HR21/23 (with the AM21), does it not display all primary and subchannels like the HR20 does, allowing you to check/uncheck the channels you want displayed in the EPG? Are subchannels completely blocked out of the AM21 units?

Huh? My HR21+AM21 works exactly the same as my HR20.

Only the OTA channels selected under "Antenna Setup" will show up in the Favorite Channels setup, but it is the same for either model.
 

hdtvtechno

SatelliteGuys Pro
And adding a AM21 isn't difficult, move the AC power cord from the HR21 to the AM21, use the supplied USB cable to connect both boxes, those are the only two additional things you need to do for connecting an AM21, connecting the OTA cable and going through the OTA setup is something you'd also need to do with the HR20's. Yes, it is another box, about 1" tall that can go above or under the HR21.

So U saying that with HR21 & AM21 You only need one AC Power Cord ?
 

tds4182

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2003
419
0
Kingwood,Texas
A message to DirecTV Finance and Engineering teams:

PLEASE add an OTA channel scan in your next OTA receiver, preferably IN a HD or HD DVR satellite receiver. The H20 has it. It's great!

The HR20 does not. HR21 does not either... and it requires an ADDITIONAL box.
The new H23 does not have an OTA tuner and from what I have read does not even work with the AM21. I don't get the idea of having yet another box in my entertainment center. I already have a bunch of boxes in there already. Hey D*, why not do something BETTER than E* and have a ONE BOX SOLUTION for your consumers?

How much are you saving by leaving this out? $10 per box? Anyone have that figure? It's going to be increasingly clear that leaving out the OTA tuner is stupid once we get used to the digital subchannels. You can't put all the subchannels on the satellite, they take up too much bandwidth. Even if you try, you'll have to overly compress the signals and sacrifice picture quality. There are people that live in between markets that need the OTA scan also.

So, I am PLEADING with you D*, DELIVER A VERSATILE, ONE BOX HD and HD-DVR SATELLITE OTA with channel scan SOLUTION to us. Keep your customers happy by making it simple and versatile.


Thank you.

My HR20-700 scanned in all the available OTA channels it could receive from my OTA antenna and integrated them in the guide.

When you say the HR20 does not do this, I don't thank that's correct (if I correctly understand what you're trying to say).
 
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gcd0865

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
May 1, 2008
26
0
Posted this elsewhere, e-mailed DirecTv, and called DirecTv; never got a response.

I have an AM21 OTA receiver, and I get OTA digital channels clearly from 3 different cities/markets when rotating the antenna. A scan alone is useless for me; it will never get all channels at once. The AM21 allows entry of two zip codes for programming OTA stations, and uses the Tribune database (at zap2it.com) to retrieve channel listings. Before purchasing the AM21, I found two locations/zip codes on zap2it.com that lie in between the 3 markets sufficiently so that zap2it.com shows that all stations from all 3 cities/markets are receivable by antenna from those locations. Perfect, I thought, and so I ordered the AM21.

After setting up the AM21, I was sorely disappointed to find that the AM21 does NOT follow the receivable station listings by antenna as shown on zap2it.com. Instead, it just picks one market (really, only the DMA) where each zip code resides. Thus, I cannot program in all of my stations into my AM21. Seriously disappointing (and will be even worse when football season arrives).

Wondering why the AM21's receivable station listing doesn't match what is shown as receivable by antenna in a given zip code on zap2it.com? I would either need the AM21 to match zap2it.com, or at least a 3rd zip code option during setup. They should forget about the zip codes, and just give you the option of selecting all stations within a choice of 50/100/150 miles of your location, then you can just delete the ones you don't get.
 

Jimbo

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Jul 14, 2005
64,180
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NW Ohio - Buckeye Country
Jimbo, I'll say it again:

MONEY


I've seen some cars where they've removed the outside keylock on the passenger door.


Some ? If not all Cars now dont have outside keylock on all the passenger doors

My new Impala has NO locks on the outside of the car other than the drivers side, not even a truck lock, which I find stupid, but I understand why they did it ...

Jimbo
 

rad

Supporting Founder
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Sep 7, 2003
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Dripping Springs, TX
So U saying that with HR21 & AM21 You only need one AC Power Cord ?

Yes, the power cord that goes to the HR21 is removed and plugged into the AM21. The AM21 has a power cord attached to it that then connects to the HR21 so only one plug is needed for the combination device.
 

Jimbo

SatelliteGuys Master
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Jul 14, 2005
64,180
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NW Ohio - Buckeye Country
My HR20-700 scanned in all the available OTA channels it could receive from my OTA antenna and integrated them in the guide.

When you say the HR20 does not do this, I don't thank that's correct (if I correctly understand what you're trying to say).

tds, When you put your zip code in, your rec. pulled up the channels in D* database and listed them as channel you should get, it did NOT scan for channels.

For example, my old rec's that did do scanning would pull in the Toledo and Detroit channels and then you would go from there.
I can still do that if I want, because they offer a secandary zip code as well.

Back in the day with the old ones, I could point my antenna south east and pull in a few Columbus channels, I cannot do that now, because it will not scan, it use to pick up the strongest channels out of Columbus, now it doesn't matter.

Jimbo
 
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