AM21 support has ended.

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Broe67

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 23, 2013
509
16
Central IL.
I only lost one local station. I rarely tune in on the locals on the AM21, unless we have bad weather, or I find a good show on one of the sub-channels.
 

dms

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Pub Member / Supporter
Dec 7, 2005
23
0
Didn't the AM21 used to scan for OTA channels instead of relying on the datebase? ... if so can't they just turn that feature back on and let us fend for ourselves?
 

HoTat2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 12, 2012
1,218
307
Los Angeles, CA.
Didn't the AM21 used to scan for OTA channels instead of relying on the datebase? ... if so can't they just turn that feature back on and let us fend for ourselves?
The Genie with AM21s and the old H20s use to scan off-air for active channels.

Both capabilites though were removed by DIRECTV STB engineering some time ago without official explanation much to the disdain of the comparatively few (like me at the time) who complained.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
 

raoul5788

Studebaker driver
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Supporting Founder
Lifetime Supporter
Dec 28, 2004
29,451
13,064
Cheshire CT
AT&T does NOT even offer sub-channels today on U-verse - where they DO already have the bandwidth. What makes you think AT&T is going to mess with this now on D*???
Frontier, who took over in CT for Uverse, does have the local subchannels in their lineup. In fact, I think they were there when it was still Uverse.
 

dishrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
3,290
340
Springfield, IL
Frontier, who took over in CT for Uverse, does have the local subchannels in their lineup. In fact, I think they were there when it was still Uverse.
I'd be willing to bet they were NOT there before (Frontier)...even so, it would have to be a rare exception, because AT&T certainly doesn't have them either in our market or Chicago DMA.

It's too bad, because they could easily carry all of them (in all markets); Centurylink's Prism & Windsteam's Kinetic IPTV services both carry subs in their respective markets.
 

jerseyfla

SatelliteGuys Family
May 7, 2006
83
2
Georgia
Just great!! I'm deployed overseas right now and I get home sometime in April. My market Dayton just added 5 subchannels although I only care about one Antenna TV. (The rest are Crime, Escape, American Sports, and Comet) I was hoping Directv would update the database quicker. Now I have to scramble to find another market in the database that has the same physical channels as WHIO and WKEF with 3 or more subchannels so I can get MeTV, Laff, and Antenna TV. Right now I'm using WXYZ out of Detroit's channel number which to get Laff from WHIO.
 

HoTat2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 12, 2012
1,218
307
Los Angeles, CA.
Just great!! I'm deployed overseas right now and I get home sometime in April. My market Dayton just added 5 subchannels although I only care about one Antenna TV. (The rest are Crime, Escape, American Sports, and Comet) I was hoping Directv would update the database quicker. ....
DIRECTV can't upgrade their OTA database unless a new channel replaces a former channel's slot that existed before the database reached it's maximum of 65, 535 Tribune Media Service IDs some time ago.

Therefore if a new station's TMS ID exceeds 65, 535 as almost all the newer stations well do, it cannot be added.

A very poor design by DIRECTV. ..

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coconut10

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 2, 2013
169
19
MN
Just great!! I'm deployed overseas right now and I get home sometime in April. My market Dayton just added 5 subchannels although I only care about one Antenna TV. (The rest are Crime, Escape, American Sports, and Comet) I was hoping Directv would update the database quicker. Now I have to scramble to find another market in the database that has the same physical channels as WHIO and WKEF with 3 or more subchannels so I can get MeTV, Laff, and Antenna TV. Right now I'm using WXYZ out of Detroit's channel number which to get Laff from WHIO.
I did some homework for you. You can get 6 stations not in the database for Dayton, by running 4 secondary zip codes. Run them in this order. 1st run Seattle WA (98101) to get 7.3 and 22.3 with the correct LAFF and ANTENNATV guides on those channels. Then run Buffalo NY (14201) to get 2.3 JUSTICE with the correct guide. Then run LA CA (90001) to get 22.4 and 26.3. These channels will have an incorrect guide. Then run Youngstown OH (44502) to get 45.3. This channel will also have an incorrect guide. This is the best you can do to match up channels and guides. It gives you 3 out of 6 correct guides and the 6 channels into your DVR/AM21. Run them in the order I stated, or you might have some conflicts.
 

Iceberg

The No Pain Train
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
282
39
None Your Business
or just find a Series 3 tivo with lifetime and have guide data for all your stations.....no monkey shine entering 16 different zips and having a bunch of Sanford and Son episodes labelled as some Mexican station because it doesnt match up right ;)
(S3 tivos w/lifetime are pretty cheap right now)
 

jerseyfla

SatelliteGuys Family
May 7, 2006
83
2
Georgia
I did some homework for you. You can get 6 stations not in the database for Dayton, by running 4 secondary zip codes. Run them in this order. 1st run Seattle WA (98101) to get 7.3 and 22.3 with the correct LAFF and ANTENNATV guides on those channels. Then run Buffalo NY (14201) to get 2.3 JUSTICE with the correct guide. Then run LA CA (90001) to get 22.4 and 26.3. These channels will have an incorrect guide. Then run Youngstown OH (44502) to get 45.3. This channel will also have an incorrect guide. This is the best you can do to match up channels and guides. It gives you 3 out of 6 correct guides and the 6 channels into your DVR/AM21. Run them in the order I stated, or you might have some conflicts.
Thanks but Seattle's KIRO and KJZOs physical channels (39 and 25) don't mirror WHIO and WKEF (41 and 18) respectively. They need to be the same physical channels for me to pick those subchannels up. If WKEF would have just displaced the old fart movie channel GetTV on 22.2 for Antenna TV instead of putting it on 22.3 it would be much easier.
 

jerseyfla

SatelliteGuys Family
May 7, 2006
83
2
Georgia
Another thing is can you put more than 2 markets on an AM21? The only market I can find on the TPN Map spreadsheet that has more than 2 subchannels on channels 18 and 41 is Los Angeles.
 

coconut10

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 2, 2013
169
19
MN
With the secondary zip code application and D* database you can match channels 2 ways. Either by actual channel number or by RF channel number. In your case Seattle's 7.3 and 22.3 would match for you and give you 7.3 and 22.3 in Dayton with the Seattle guide (correct guide) for the channel. Then Buffalo would match 2.3 (with Buff Justice Network guide) for you. LA would be an RF channel match for 22.4 and 26.3 In this instance any .4 RF18 and .3 RF26 match, LA is the only market that matches both. Youngstown would match 45.3. It's hard to find markets to match guides and that won't conflict with the next zip code run, but in this example it should work. This is how you apply it. First run Dayton as primary and Seattle as your secondary. Then the second time run Buffalo as your primary and LA as your secondary. Then the third time run Dayton as your primary and Youngstown as your secondary. So by running the setup over 3 times on your AM21, you will get the 6 missing channels in Dayton. The order matters, because an actual channel will override a RF channel. So the first 22.3 (for instance) once established, will stay, even though additional zip codes might have a 22.3 also. Try it. I should be close to what you will get. I do this in my setup, and it works to give me all the channels my antenna receives, in my DMA.
 
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ejb1980

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 26, 2010
3,325
546
Vermont
I will simply post to confirm coconut's methods and you must do it in the order that he posted.

One thing that I found that helps too is after all the secondary zips have been added, re-enter your real home zips again at the end. I found that doing that after helped after a power outage and it only "remembers" the last 2 zips entered.

You will need to use a favorites list because the AM21 is going to display a bunch of stuff you don't get.
 

coconut10

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 2, 2013
169
19
MN
One thing I didn't mention in my post about Dayton, that may confuse you, is this. If you have already run Detroit as a secondary zip to get 7.3 LAFF, it is proof that secondary zips work. Detroit carries Laff on 7.3 and the guide would match Dayton for you. Now by running the additional secondary zips won't affect anything because your DVR/AM21 will retain Detroit's 7.3, even though Seattle has a 7.3 and I think one of the other secondary zips has a 7.3. It will retain the first 7.3 acqiured, which in your case, was Detroit.
 

SamCdbs

SatelliteGuys Pro
Lifetime Supporter
May 7, 2008
1,532
289
Two things.

First, all DirecTV has to do is add all possible channels,2.1 - 83.8 to a single faux secondary market associated with a zip code that does not really exist, such as 00000 Simply list "Regular Schedule" in the guide 24/7/365. Then a user could simply use the channel guide set up menu to pick the channels that actually exist where he lives. That way, at least, every channel a person could get would be tunable without all this pretend you live in Reno and pretend GET TV is really ASN ho ha.

Second, and I think this will happen, is to remember that these channels, except for local commercials, are the same all over the country. You know what they do with ION? If you don't, well you get ION on whatever channel it is locally, but it really is not you local ION. It is the national feed. So do that. There are, what, 20 .2 channels. Just put them all up in SD from the national feed nationally. Lots of SD bandwidth available. Toss a few $$ to the local station for people not seeing their local ads.
 

ejb1980

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 26, 2010
3,325
546
Vermont
Two things.

First, all DirecTV has to do is add all possible channels,2.1 - 83.8 to a single faux secondary market associated with a zip code that does not really exist, such as 00000 Simply list "Regular Schedule" in the guide 24/7/365. Then a user could simply use the channel guide set up menu to pick the channels that actually exist where he lives. That way, at least, every channel a person could get would be tunable without all this pretend you live in Reno and pretend GET TV is really ASN ho ha.

Second, and I think this will happen, is to remember that these channels, except for local commercials, are the same all over the country. You know what they do with ION? If you don't, well you get ION on whatever channel it is locally, but it really is not you local ION. It is the national feed. So do that. There are, what, 20 .2 channels. Just put them all up in SD from the national feed nationally. Lots of SD bandwidth available. Toss a few $$ to the local station for people not seeing their local ads.
Ion isn't like that everywhere... Some of the affiliates are the actual local feed. You can see the ID at the top of the hour.
 

Iceberg

The No Pain Train
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
282
39
None Your Business
T. You know what they do with ION? If you don't, well you get ION on whatever channel it is locally, but it really is not you local ION. It is the national feed. So do that.
There are affiliates of Ion., Not all are O&O. Media General has around 30 affiliates with Ion
There are some affiliates that do pre-empt programming on their Ion feed
 

Jimbo

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Jul 14, 2005
62,306
3,475
NW Ohio - Buckeye Country
Two things.

First, all DirecTV has to do is add all possible channels,2.1 - 83.8 to a single faux secondary market associated with a zip code that does not really exist, such as 00000 Simply list "Regular Schedule" in the guide 24/7/365. Then a user could simply use the channel guide set up menu to pick the channels that actually exist where he lives. That way, at least, every channel a person could get would be tunable without all this pretend you live in Reno and pretend GET TV is really ASN ho ha.

Second, and I think this will happen, is to remember that these channels, except for local commercials, are the same all over the country. You know what they do with ION? If you don't, well you get ION on whatever channel it is locally, but it really is not you local ION. It is the national feed. So do that. There are, what, 20 .2 channels. Just put them all up in SD from the national feed nationally. Lots of SD bandwidth available. Toss a few $$ to the local station for people not seeing their local ads.
Why would D* do this ?
D* doesn't care about the OTA channels available ... they are the ones that removed the OTA tuners from the boxes in the first place.
Once they decided to offer the Locals on thier system (I know not everybody is on them) they never cared about your OTA channels.
They offer your locals, why should they care about them.
Back then, sub channels weren't a big deal for the most part.
They are not obligated to offer any support for OTA.
 

TheRatPatrol

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 1, 2004
406
132
Funny, wasn't it about a year or two ago that D* wanted to do away with paying for locals and give everyone an OTA antenna? I wonder what changed?
 
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