AMC14 The Rescue mission: Lunar Burn may be a reality.

[goaliebob99]

While AMC 14 only has 5,000km to go! Its not that far compared to Asia sat wich was the first satellite to use a lunar burn succesfully. While Fuel is an issue, Its not much of an issue in this case as Asia sat's original orbit was 350Km and with the moons gravity was brought to a 36,000KM orbit. That burn used most of the satellite's fuel but there is hope that this bird can retain most of its fuel being that it's so close.

Here is a bunch of press releases on this historic mission.

AsiaSat 3

 

[goober22]

You know, my 84 year old mother "could" become a ninja warrior! Will this happen, doubtful.

I hate to rain on your parade but AMC14 is lost. They will write it off to recover the insurance, otherwise they will have to accept a 2/3rds loss of life to get it into a functional orbit due to fuel consumption.

 

[goaliebob99]

You know, my 84 year old mother "could" become a ninja warrior! Will this happen, doubtful.

I hate to rain on your parade but AMC14 is lost. They will write it off to recover the insurance, otherwise they will have to accept a 2/3rds loss of life to get it into a functional orbit due to fuel consumption.

How do you know it would even be that much as ASIA sat burned that much just getting to its spot. With this one, Its a hellva alot closer than asia sat was to begin with. Its only at 28,000KM orbit right now, where as Asia sat started at a 350KM orbit. For a diffrence of 27,650KM less that AMC14 has to travel. That is alot of fuel. If I was the insurance people looking at this, I wouldnt write it off untill this was tryed and give a partial payment for the fule used and the life taken wich could have amounted to a few years of fuel. I think they still can get 10+ out of this bird if it's truely that close and it isnt lost as everyone is making it out to be!

The target goal is 33,000KM

 

[digiblur]

I thought it was 5,000 miles?

It's not going to be about if it can be done, it's all going to be down to the insurance. If AMC can't get some insurance or ILS to pay for the lost lease time then they'll just scuttle the whole bird to claim the mission as an entire loss.

 

[cforrest]

I thought it was 8000 kilometers away or close to 5000 miles away from it's intended orbit. Not 5000 kilometers as stated by OP.

Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | Proton rocket suffers launch failure

In an update posted on its Web site, Roscosmos said the stage and the AMC 14 payload reached an orbit with a high point of about 17,400 miles, about 5,000 miles short of the intended altitude at the end of the burn

 

[RandallA]

I thought it was 5,000 miles?

It's not going to be about if it can be done, it's all going to be down to the insurance. If AMC can't get some insurance or ILS to pay for the lost lease time then they'll just scuttle the whole bird to claim the mission as an entire loss.

I agree with you. Why would AMC try to place the satellite into the correct orbit when they can just declared the mission a total loss and get the insurance. If they try to use the satellite's own engine to raise it to the higher orbit, it will reduce the lifetime of the satellite and probably lose the opportunity to claim the insurance.

BTW, I'm just finding out about this. Man, big blow to Dish Network. Hope they have a plan B.

 

[goaliebob99]

You guys are right.. I thought it was KM. but the point is still there as Asia sat was at a 217 mile orbit when they rescued it. Our bird is only 5000 miles short. The diffrence is about 17,200 miles less that our bird needs to travle.

Wich is alot of fuel saved. While I understand that it all depends on insurace and ect. I think the insurance could make them try this and compinsate for the years lost for the fuel burned. Also, in this situation the fuel consumption wont be as much as its alot closer to the target! That would extend the life of the bird!

 

[goaliebob99]

I agree with you. Why would AMC try to place the satellite into the correct orbit when they can just declared the mission a total loss and get the insurance. If they try to use the satellite's own engine to raise it to the higher orbit, it will reduce the lifetime of the satellite and probably lose the opportunity to claim the insurance.

BTW, I'm just finding out about this. Man, big blow to Dish Network. Hope they have a plan B.

Why waste a perfectly good bird in space that took time and money to get there in the first place. There is physically nothing wrong with the bird other than its not in its intended spot. The insurance company could deney the claim as it made it into space full functionaly even though its not in the proper orbit. Hell if it was health insurance and somebody's body they wouldnt hesitate to deney the clame in a second.

 

[digiblur]

Depends on the clauses in the insurance. It might be stated where AMC could burn 5 years of fuel and still get 10 years out of the bird, but then the insurance wouldn't pay a penny for that type of loss. If they lost the entire thing then it would get paid, AMC would just mash the de-orbit button.

 

[digiblur]

It doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do to keep the bird, they will make the decision based on the money.

 

[goaliebob99]

It doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do to keep the bird, they will make the decision based on the money.

Digi I agree with you, but the way insurance companies operate, They wont give them a dime for something like this unless the bird was damaged, wich in this case it isnt that they know of.

 

[wonko]

Digi I agree with you, but the way insurance companies operate, They wont give them a dime for something like this unless the bird was damaged, wich in this case it isnt that they know of.

It doesn't matter if it's damaged, it's not currently functional. That's what it would be insured against.

 

[Andrewwski]

You're also forgetting that it didn't perform a circularization burn. Even though it's apogee is only a few thousand km short of what it was intended at this point, the orbit is also pretty elliptical.

Any success at recovering the satellite will mean reduced capability and/or lifetime.

 

[goaliebob99]

Sure its functional, just not at the orbit they intended. Its now at an inclined orbit. Canada could have good use for it!

 

[OV_HDFan]

I know we are dealing with lawyers and insurance, but isn't this like rolling your car into the river to make a claim on your auto insurance because the engine locked up. I hope they decide to save the bird instead of parking it as another piece of space junk.

 

[digiblur]

I hate to rain on the parade and hope I am wrong but I have the feeling they will deorbit the bird in order to claim the insurance.

If the insurance company was smart they would pay for the 5 yrs lease time and let AMC kick the bird in to orbit but the legal mumbo jumbo might not allow it. But you know how things are these days....

 

[John Kotches]

Why waste a perfectly good bird in space that took time and money to get there in the first place. There is physically nothing wrong with the bird other than its not in its intended spot. The insurance company could deney the claim as it made it into space full functionaly even though its not in the proper orbit. Hell if it was health insurance and somebody's body they wouldnt hesitate to deney the clame in a second.

Bob:

At this point, does anyone know what state the satellite is in? I seriously doubt it. It usually takes a few weeks of tests to work this out, and the pressing issue is going to be determining if the satellite can be moved to its proper orbit. You have made this huge leap from it's not at its intended orbit (which renders the satellite useless) to there's nothing wrong it other than it's not in the correct spot. There is zero supporting evidence for this leap you've made.

Is AMC-14 in a circular orbit? if not, there's a fair amount of work to do to get the satellite into a uniform orbit rather than an eccentric one.


And for god's sake please start using spell check.

 

[John Kotches]

Sure its functional, just not at the orbit they intended. Its now at an inclined orbit. Canada could have good use for it!

You keep on making this assertion over and over again with literally zero supporting evidence. No functional tests have been run on this satellite in orbit. They haven't deployed the panels, they haven't tested each transponder, they haven't even gotten a single bit uplinked to it. Somehow though you have stated unequivocally it's functional. The satellite isn't functional until it is at its intended orbit and fully tested.

It would be interesting to see just what they can do with the phased arrays though.

 

[drdroo]

Hopefully they'll figure this out in the next few days as to what they intend to do.

As many people have stated, insurance and logic aren't necessarily two things that go hand in hand. All depends on how their plan is set up.

Assuming it's a working bird, it's a damn shame to think they'd just burn it up. But.. That might just be how it goes..

 

[goaliebob99]

John, your right about the testing and all, but what I was saying is that its in an inclined orbit over the U.S. Which means the foot print is over Canada/ North Pole ish. Plus the beams are steerable, depening on how the bird gets moved and what position they put it in, they could steer the beams. I'm just trying to apply common sense to rocket science. Now if its physically not possible then thats something different.

While you say there is zero evidence to support what I say, there is also Zero evidence to support otherwise. Just because I'm speculating differently than everyone else and I don't see this as doom and gloom for AMC14. I think there is a chance and Everyone is about to get WOWED!

As far as spelling, Im an engeneer/podcast host! I dont spell.