ANOTHER D* vs E*

[vurbano]

. "We're guaranteed to be the HD leader by 2007." I said, "What do you mean 'guaranteed'?" To which she replied, "We're just more advanced than they are."

the meaning of the word "guaranteed" isnt D*'s problem. The meaning of the word "HD leader" is. Are they going to have a revelation and suddenly discover what HD resolution is? Are they going to suddenly discover 1920x1080i? Numbers that dissapeared from their website definitions on HD resolution a long time ago inorder to cover their A$$es. All of a sudden they are going to become an "honest" company? Delivering what they advertise? I love the "we're just more advanced part". Last time I checked D* didnt have an Mpeg4 DVR yet, but hey, I guess they are experts and downrezzing and bitstarving. I suppose an expert theif considers himself "more advanced" than the rest.

 

[vgsantiago]

I may have reached "information overload." I am presently with Comcast Cable and trying to choose between Dish and Directv. I want one HD and one SD receiver. Directv is luring me back with some almost free HBO and Showtime for six months with a 2 year commitment. Dish is offering about the same package without the premium channels but with additional HD for about $10.00 per month more with an 18 month commitment. Unfortunately, the csr I spoke with at Dish did not have a firm grip on the program and couldn't offer much more. I was leaning toward Directv until reading this thread. It seems I have been flipping based on new information every few days. The general feeling I get reading here is that the providers will not really be fully prepared to deliver quality products until 2008. Right now, Dish looks better for me. Should I follow the advice of John Maynard Keynes who said something like "In the long run, we are all dead." and choose something now? If not, is it worthwhile to continue waiting for the next "big" event?

My true honest opinion at this very moment. If money is not a big factor and it's HD you want go with Dish. If you can somehow compare the PQ between the 2 that would be great. But if all you have are these forums, defintely tough.

Us D* HD customers are waiting for the big bang (2007) and there are no guarantees. Dish has the upperhand right now. It's not like D* will create exclusive HD channels for D* customers only so I guess PQ will decide who'll be the HD leader.

Dang.... why am I still with D*

1. $100.00 rebate
2. $150.00 rebate ($10 off for 15 months)
3. Free Portable DVD player
4. 3 months Free premiums and HD programming
5. 2 year commitment

Okay now I remember

 

[tds4182]

After theyve milked the equipment prices out of you

If you're as unhappy as you seem to have been for quite a while (even if you had a 2 year committment) there can't be much time left and the penalty is prorated based on the months remaining, why not quit D* and go to E* or the local CC in Newport News/Virginia Beach? That's what I would do if I were as unhappy with D* as you seem to be.

Or would you rather just continue griping and posting?

Just a thought!

 

[vurbano]

If you're as unhappy as you seem to have been for quite a while (even if you had a 2 year committment) there can't be much time left and the penalty is prorated based on the months remaining, why not quit D* and go to E* or the local CC in Newport News/Virginia Beach? That's what I would do if I were as unhappy with D* as you seem to be.

Or would you rather just continue griping and posting?

Just a thought!

Cox cable offers very little IMO and with 5c copy protection. No thanks.

I am in a holding pattern, waiting for Verizon. And I really need a buyer with a generous offer for my networked 500 GB HD tivo to move to Dish. That along with the investment in the Infrant server, Linkplayer2 HD player etc make it tough to swallow. All of this could be solved with one thing. Directv could start delivering high definition

 

[tds4182]

Cox cable offers very little IMO and with 5c copy protection. No thanks.

I am in a holding pattern, waiting for Verizon. And I really need a buyer with a generous offer for my networked 500 GB HD tivo to move to Dish. That along with the investment in the Infrant server, Linkplayer2 HD player etc make it tough to swallow. All of this could be solved with one thing. Directv could start delivering high definition

Or you could have exercised a little more forethought and not tied so much $$ up in equipment that delivered/recorded D*'s HD Lite!

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

Have you visited the D* HD forum lately. I don't know anyone who has D* HD and are "happy" with it.

If we lied to ourselves and D* and said we are "happy" they wouldn't improve on the known issues.

I have a at-9 getting Pittsburgh locals and I am 100% happy with the picture on my 65 inch tv!

Guess that shoots your theory down the drain.

 

[vurbano]

Or you could have exercised a little more forethought and not tied so much $$ up in equipment that delivered/recorded D*'s HD Lite!

D* advertises HD. D* should not be delivering HDlite.

 

[vurbano]

I have a at-9 getting Pittsburgh locals and I am 100% happy with the picture on my 65 inch tv!

Guess that shoots your theory down the drain.

No, it means either

1. you need a new prescription for glasses or
2. a calibration for that set or
3. You dont care about the PQ or
4. you are in denial for some other reason.

Evidence attached below from a screen cap post from "Xylon" at AVS. This image macroblocks twice as badly on D* than it does on E*. That also means that macroblocking on D* will start sooner than on E* comprimising more of the video. If go cruise AVS forum you will see other screen caps that prove the superior PQ on E* and other sources. Currently there is nothing worse that I know of. Maybe some isolated cable systems.
.

 

[vgsantiago]

I have a at-9 getting Pittsburgh locals and I am 100% happy with the picture on my 65 inch tv!

Guess that shoots your theory down the drain.

I'm sure you are if you never compared it to anyone else or your local cable company is that bad. Coming from COX, trust me D* is greatly inferior to COX. So before the question or comment comes up again on why I'm still with D*, here is why:

1. $100.00 rebate
2. $150.00 rebate ($10 off for 15 months)
3. Free Portable DVD player
4. 3 months Free premiums and HD programming
5. 2 year commitment
6. Waiting for 07

the very next day after installation I submitted a service call complaining (I mean voicing my concerns) over the PQ while watching TNT HD NBA playoff game. See, having COX HD the day before then seeing the D* HD the very next day. I kinda thought it wasn't my 55 inch TV being the cause of my problem.

I will continue to voice my concerns until I guess purchase a 65 inch TV. D* should have mentioned I needed that before I purchased their HD programming.

 

[Jimbo]

I may have reached "information overload." I am presently with Comcast Cable and trying to choose between Dish and Directv. I want one HD and one SD receiver. Directv is luring me back with some almost free HBO and Showtime for six months with a 2 year commitment. Dish is offering about the same package without the premium channels but with additional HD for about $10.00 per month more with an 18 month commitment. Unfortunately, the csr I spoke with at Dish did not have a firm grip on the program and couldn't offer much more. I was leaning toward Directv until reading this thread. It seems I have been flipping based on new information every few days. The general feeling I get reading here is that the providers will not really be fully prepared to deliver quality products until 2008. Right now, Dish looks better for me. Should I follow the advice of John Maynard Keynes who said something like "In the long run, we are all dead." and choose something now? If not, is it worthwhile to continue waiting for the next "big" event?

If your NOT a big NFL fan and do not need the ST and the price is right for you, I'd go with the best price, the choice is ultimatly yours, it just depends on what type of programming you are most interested in.... Sports go with D*, Movies go with DISH

Jimbo

 

[Sean Mota]

No, it means either

1. you need a new prescription for glasses or
2. a calibration for that set or
3. You dont care about the PQ or
4. you are in denial for some other reason.

Evidence attached below from a screen cap post from "Xylon" at AVS. This image macroblocks twice as badly on D* than it does on E*. That also means that macroblocking on D* will start sooner than on E* comprimising more of the video. If go cruise AVS forum you will see other screen caps that prove the superior PQ on E* and other sources. Currently there is nothing worse that I know of. Maybe some isolated cable systems.
.

In my opinion, you can call it the "HD Lite Syndrome Denial" (maybe we should add this to the glossary to describe individuals that cannot see a difference) that is what the D* HD users are experiencing. How much clearer could it be? D* HD offering is a joke when it comes to Picture Quality. :devil:

 

[mbetts]

The difference is huge. I'm investigating attic antenna options for OTA reception. I was excited when D* offered Atlanta locals without the antenna. Now I realize that I should have gone ahead with OTA. Seriously, D*'s HD LIL looks like 16x9, 480p at best.

 

[vurbano]

The difference is huge. I'm investigating attic antenna options for OTA reception. I was excited when D* offered Atlanta locals without the antenna. Now I realize that I should have gone ahead with OTA. Seriously, D*'s HD LIL looks like 16x9, 480p at best.

OMG thats mpeg4 stuff isnt it?

 

[Jimbo]

D* advertises HD. D* should not be delivering HDlite.

To this day, there is no law, FCC or otherwise that states that HD has to be at 1920x1080i.

The general idea is rather vague, anything 720p and up is considered HD.

It's sad that there are no standards yet, I would not be suprised to see when standards are set that they are set at the HD Lite level.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it either, but that is where we stand at the monent.

Jimbo

 

[Sean Mota]

To this day, there is no law, FCC or otherwise that states that HD has to be at 1920x1080i.

The general idea is rather vague, anything 720p and up is considered HD.

It's sad that there are no standards yet, I would not be suprised to see when standards are set that they are set at the HD Lite level.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it either, but that is where we stand at the monent.

Jimbo

Sorry but that is not true... there are two HDTV standards 1920x1080i and 1280x720p defined by ATSC. It is in their website in a pdf document that we have linked to many many times.

 

[Jimbo]

Sorry but that is not true... there are two HDTV standards 1920x1080i and 1280x720p defined by ATSC. It is in their website in a pdf document that we have linked to many many times.

Good you made my point for me.....

HD has to be at 1280x720p, from what you said, and thats what we are getting, no better.

I would love to see there be set standards of 1920x1080i, but by then, the world will have changed and the resolution for what we consider GREAT picture will be much, much higher, and we will be right back were we started.

Alot depends on the broadcast signal, the upconversion the receiver your using and your TV.
So there are a lot of variables in the loop.
I can go into my A/V store and look at the exact same signal on two different sets and see a drastic difference.

Live events will always look better than recorded.

Jimbo

 

[Sean Mota]

Good you made my point for me.....

HD has to be at 1280x720p, from what you said, and thats what we are getting, no better.

You are confusing the issue here. 1280x720p is a standard but not the standard that DirecTv is using to send the 1080i channels. All 1080i channels have a resolution of 1920x1080i and DirecTv chooses to downgrade them to 1280x1080i. This is not the same as 1280x720p which it is a progressive standard with a different timeframe which makes it incompatible to 1920x1080i. 1280x1080i is not the same as 1280x720p.

Alot depends on the broadcast signal, the upconversion the receiver your using and your TV.
So there are a lot of variables in the loop.
I can go into my A/V store and look at the exact same signal on two different sets and see a drastic difference.

Live events will always look better than recorded.

Jimbo

yet if all things being equal the compromise of 1280x1080i will never be equal to 1920x1080i. All the comparisons done by the users of this community has shown this.

 

[vurbano]

Still after all of this time all of this missinformation and missunderstanding exists out there, even from retailers. No wonder so many are so accepting of the lower quality. You simply cannot multiply the resolution and shout that 1280x1080i is still as good as 1280 x720p. The progressive scan nature gives 720p atttributes that keep it as good as 1920 x 1080i. But when you rob 1/3 of the pixels from the picture and go to 1280x1080i it falls far below the quality of 1280x720p. And remember this is all done inorder to cut the bitrate. A cutting by D*that is so severe that even this lower resolution abortion they have created (1280x1080i) still demands more bandwidth than they give it and the already dull picture with no "pop" macroblocks during fast motion.

But yet we have ole, Jimbo saying to his customers, "its as least as good as 720p"

Bullsh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jimbo]

You are confusing the issue here. 1280x720p is a standard but not the standard that DirecTv is using to send the 1080i channels. All 1080i channels have a resolution of 1920x1080i and DirecTv chooses to downgrade them to 1280x1080i. This is not the same as 1280x720p which it is a progressive standard with a different timeframe which makes it incompatible to 1920x1080i. 1280x1080i is not the same as 1280x720p.



yet if all things being equal the compromise of 1280x1080i will never be equal to 1920x1080i. All the comparisons done by the users of this community has shown this.

Sean,
I now understand what you are refering to.

Jimbo

 

[Jimbo]

Still after all of this time all of this missinformation and missunderstanding exists out there, even from retailers. No wonder so many are so accepting of the lower quality. You simply cannot multiply the resolution and shout that 1280x1080i is still as good as 1280 x720p. The progressive scan nature gives 720p atttributes that keep it as good as 1920 x 1080i. But when you rob 1/3 of the pixels from the picture and go to 1280x1080i it falls far below the quality of 1280x720p. And remember this is all done inorder to cut the bitrate. A cutting by D*that is so severe that even this lower resolution abortion they have created (1280x1080i) still demands more bandwidth than they give it and the already dull picture with no "pop" macroblocks during fast motion.

But yet we have ole, Jimbo saying to his customers, "its as least as good as 720p"

Bullsh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=========================================================

I will take progressive signal over interlaced any day of the week...(for sports)


At least I take the time to explain things, all you do is complain....