Anyone Interested in OnShape 3D CAD Cloud Design Work of Birdview TVRO to Amateur Radio Sat Comms?

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by KI5SS, May 13, 2018.

  1. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Introduction to Onshape.

    While I will most likely be successful designing and fabricating a satellite dish mount for the rotational Azimuth & Elevation mechanics for the conversion of my 30-year-old Birdview Satellite TVRO (Model No. AP-2028) into an Amateur Radio Communications Satellite Dish, it is the selection or designing and building the modern control box and selecting or developing the software for the control box that I will need help. I will get the project started by getting the measured dimensions from my own Birdview Satellite TVRO Dish (30-years-old) and get them entered into Onsape 3D CAD online Cloud software.

    I intend to completely remove the original Bridview HTH mount and put in the sets of Slew Gears.

    Any volunteers?
     
    k.r. likes this.
  2. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    You might review the existing amateur radio and or astronomy hardware and automatic tracking software solutions already available before reinventing the wheel. It appears that the calculation and tracking applications for non-geosynchronous satellites and reflective objects are quite well established.
     
  3. Martyn

    Martyn SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Posts:
    559
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Concord, CA
    Yes. It would be immensely more useful if the control unit interfaces with all of the software already out there. You shouldn't have to build that part. Satellite tracking software is well established and mature. Just take the commands and use them to move the dish.
     
  4. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    For both Titanium/AI6US & Martyn:

    I presume the availability of software and control boxes each of you mentioned is the technological case today. But I am getting my feet wet with my project to modernize the 30-year-old HTH mount on the Birdview Satellite Dish, Model AP-2028. I have no technological or practical skill set to complete this project. I am learning as I go. I am quick at learning, however. As my SOP, I research and study everything I need to know to accomplish any given task. The more I learn the better. Can y'all provide a list of the best satellite tracking software and control boxes, but not too expensive? I can compile a list through Google & Bing, and other search engines. But any list y'all provide will give me a head start. No need for me to reinvent the wheel. I already have a bunch of them in my back yard. (humor).

    [​IMG]

    Don Hamrick/KI5SS


     

    Attached Files:

  5. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    That IMO Slewing Gear company emailed their catalog to me. Now to find the right size and price for 4 slew gears. If too expensive? Back to R & D.
     
  6. Magic Static

    Magic Static FTA Geek
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU! Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Posts:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Montana
    I may not re-invent the wheel but I have built a few from scratch ;) One of the biggest draws to this hobby for me is the hands-on time building up dishes. I've played with every part of the system. While the closest thing to a CNC machine I have is a benchtop drill press, I still manage to turn out some projects :) A fun hobby for sure. A lot of the folks here play the other end of the spectrum and try to do the hobby with almost no financial output. Putting together some pretty wild setups from what is out there. So while you are on a path not many will do we all like to follow your project with great interest. No matter how you choose to do it, it's all good stuff. :)
     
    Titanium likes this.
  7. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    Sorry, I am not into the satellite side of amateur radio, so would also need to research to reply. I wasn't proposing buying a solution more than suggesting using common control and feedback protocols. Not reinventing the wheel doesn't necessarily mean to buy the wheel.

    It appears that there are several popular open source calculation and controller programs for multi-axis tracking. While most stations use phased antennas rather than a parabola, the software is a constant while hardware is scaleable if utilizing protocols.

    Amsat appears to have a good list of prediction and steering software. Also ran across this site: www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl/satellite/sat-information/tracking/
     
  8. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Titanium/AI6US,

    OHHH MANNN! Kick my ass! The link you provided to www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl listed Ham Radio Deluxe's Satellite Tracker. I already have Ham Radio Deluxe! I had forgotten about the Satellite Tracker because I don't have an amateur radio satellite dish (yet). WELL! That's one problem SOLVED! (ROFLMAO!) Thank you for that reminder! Now it's down to the Satellite Control Box with the Ham Radio Deluxe Satellite Tracker interface. Solving problems is FUN! (LOL).

    The HTH "hinge" attached to the "dish" is what I intend to replace with Slew Drive Gears. Fabricating the new mount will require a welder.
    upload_2018-5-15_9-31-49.jpeg

    Don Hamrick/KI5SS
     
  9. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    That IMO Slewing Worm Drive company offered MM sizes only. I'm back to Google Images to pick a set of Slewing Worm Drives to match a 6-inch or 8-inch pipe for the Azimuth & Elevation.

    Two motors are required for the separate Azimuth and Elevation movements. That means two mounting platforms will have to be welded in place for the two motors. That's the design problem I have to solve.

    HIGHLY PROBABLE SOLUTION HERE: 39-43 seconds into the video:

    I'm still looking around.

    AN OPTIONAL PROBLEM TO SOLVE: Now, how would a 1-foot or 2-feet diameter mast pipe, say 20-feet tall (with 5 feet in the ground) look? I can get someone to weld ladder bars on the mast-pipe for maintenance? (Just letting my imagination run wild.)
     
    #9 KI5SS, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  10. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    Why mount so high? Unless it is to clear obstructions, the raised dish would complicate installation and maintenance.
     
  11. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    upload_2018-5-16_8-45-1.png
    Tall trees, 50 feet average height, in close proximity present three logical solutions: (1) Raise the height of the Birdview Satellite Dish, (2) Cut down the trees blocking the celestial horizon, or (3) Accept the limitations for less than optimal amateur radio satellite communictions. Even if the Birdview Satellite dish was not a factor, the tall pine trees were blocking sunlight to the shadowed grass. The grass died out giving "lawn moss" their creeping space to dominate the yard. I opened up my yard to sunlight to let the grass take back the lawn.

    The backstory here is that my mother's husband (age 87) (my step-dad), died last year. When he was in his 20's or 30's he planted young pine trees on the property. The same pine trees I had cut down. The row of pines you don't see to the right of the mobile home were also planted by him. I don't own the property for those pine trees. My in-laws own that property. The in-laws don't like me all that well for cutting down the pine trees on my property they loved for their sentimental value.

    I got the 5 tall pine trees lining the Southern edge of my property and the 6 tall pine trees lining the Northern edge of my property cut down last year (saw mill owner took the trunks as payment, leaving me the huge pile of branches to clean up). It took a year for the pine branches and pine needles to dry out to their dead-brown color before they could burn hot and fast (this month). I have been burning that pile these past two weeks to completely burn them down to ashes. I will till the ashes into the ground to improve the soil for new grass. You can see a column of smoke rising to the left of the graphic image of the satellite dish.

    After I get the Birdview Satellite Dish installed I will ask each of the property owners with tall trees blocking the horizon for my satellite dish if they will allow the sawmill owner to cut down their tall trees for free (the saw mill owner taking the trunks for lumber, leaving the branches for them to clean up). Why? I am running for mayor of Kensett, Arkansas, pop. 1,648. I am the only amateur radio operator in Kensett but there are ample hams in the county. I can bring amateur radio emergency & disaster communications into Kensett in the HF (shortwave), 50MHz, VHF, UHF, and satellite communications in the amateur radio frequency bands.

    I am trying to make the best of the situation I have on my property.

    Don Hamrick/KI5SS
     
    #11 KI5SS, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Titanium likes this.
  12. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    Might need to consider starting with a 50' tower that can be raised an additional 10' every year! Kidding!

    Since most amateur radio communications are not using satellites in the Clarke Belt, the graphic overlay of the arc would mainly apply to TVRO FTA services over the equator. Of course, the Clark Belt has a much higher apex for your latitude. Amateur radio communications might occur at any trajectory / pass angle.
     
  13. KI5SS

    KI5SS Topic Starter On Vacation

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Posts:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    upload_2018-5-16_14-4-18.png
    Yeah! I thought about that. But, I will just do what I can with what I have now as the photo shows. The other night provided a clear sky, no clouds. I sighted in the North Star. I used one T-bar staked in the ground at a convenient spot. I used my long length of galvanized pipe tied to the T-bar. Then I used a second T-bar to sight in the North Star. I used my fence post-pounder to plant the second T-bar giving me the North-South Line. The yellow circle is my collection of 11 Dish Network and DirecTV satellite dishes. Some where given to me (at my request) by a DirecTV installer when we switched to DirecTV. The others were given to me by the same neighbor who gave me his Birdview Satellite Dish you see leaning on my front porch advertising to the neighborhood and the driveby's of my coming installation of a satellite dish; but they won't know it is for amateur radio satellite communications until they read my campaign blog. The TV dishes are something I want to R & D ideas to convert them to amateur radio dishes.

    The brown oval is the septic tank leak I am digging up to find the cause and get it repaired. The brown circle is one of two bags of lime I used to neutralize the septic tank leak. Later I will bag up the contaminated dirt and dispose of it. I will haul in a couple of dump truck loads of topsoil to replace the contaminated soil and to change the predominant clay soil of the yard more favorable for grass and slope the new topsoil to drain rainwater off the yard. All on a V.A. pension. Months if my time-line.

    With the North-South Line plotted I can add a sundial to the satellite dish installation. I am considering a sundail like this one:
    [​IMG]

    How To Build and Install A Sundial In Your Garden
    Most likely though, it won't happen. Probably too expensive for me.

    upload_2018-5-16_14-38-11.png

    My campaign sign: Vote Don Hamrick for Full-Time Mayor of Kensett. "Corruption Free Zone." The current mayor works Full Time at RidOut Lumber Company. I am taking care of my 84-year-old mother as her live-in caregiver. She has behavioral problems and she sometimes gets angry at me for no reason. One night last year she called the police on me thinking I betrayed her when I requested a referral from her doctor (after notification be a clinic nurse that she saw signs of Alzheimers in my mother). My mother does get vindictive. She called the police on my claiming I hit her. I did not hit her. I spent 13 days in jail. Would have been longer but an in-law persuaded my mother to get me out of jail.

    Kensett is a small corrupt town. The Kensett District Court is a corrupt kangaroo court. The prosecutor did NOT do his due diligence to make sure the circumstances of the case matched the offense charge. Both the judge and prosecutor have a reputation of convicting everyone at trial. I have first hand experience of the corruption. The pretrial stage took almost a year. I had enough evidence of bias on the judge that my Motion for Recusal was successful.

    I am now in the process of filing my civil complaint of False Conviction at the U.S. Supreme Court and with that filing I am including my attempt to revive my 2003 National Open Carry Second Amendment case from a merchant seaman's point of view that got denied by the U.S. Supreme Court even though I had opposing opinions from two U.S. Courts of Appeals on the Second Amendment, one opinion said the Second Amendment is an individual right and the other said it is not an individual right. That should guaranteed my appeal would be accepted. But because my case was advocating National Open Carry it was a political hot potato too hot for the U.S. Supreme Court that I intended it to be.

    My new approach for National Open Carry?

    National Open Carry is the GOLD STANDARD for the Second Amendment right to kept and bear arms under the Common Defence Clause and the Privileges and Immunities Clause.

    I am a logical, analytical pragmatist. I don't side with partisan politics. That's why I am running for Mayor of Kensett as an independent candidate.

    My U.S. Supreme Court appeal was administratively returned because I did not use the U.S. Supreme Court form proving I cannot afford the filing fee (3 or 4 pages in length, a financial accounting form). I made a simplified declaratory statement denoting my only income is my V.A. pension. That in itself should have been enough.

    The U.S. Supreme Court Clerk returned my appeal on the basis I also exceeded the 40-page limit (about 70 pages I had). I explained in my appeal filing (Motion to Exceed the 40-Page Limit) that dividing the pages in half because of the two Subject Matter Jurisdictions, both for the U.S. Supreme Court my appeal was technically within the 40-page limit. Didn't take.

    I am now preparing my protesting rebuttal: U.S. Supreme Court Rule 22: Application to a Specific Justice of the Supreme Court. I am preparing my Rule 22 Application for the Chief Justice all of the other Justices. There are a number of "trip wires" in the Rules of the U.S. Supreme Court that, in my opinion, are designed to stop pro se, (unrepresented civil plaintiffs with civil rights and/or constitutional rights cases) from getting their appeals accepted on procedural due process even though the substantive due process, subject matter have jurisdiction for the U.S. Supreme Court deserve acceptance bore the Supreme Court, like my False Conviction appeal (a global problem) and the Gold Standard for the Second Amendment.

    I will slam the U.S. Supreme Court on the judicial bias rising to the level of judicial, tyranny. My Rule 22 Protest will include my declaration that I cannot and will not reduce the number of pages to 40. The Supreme Court's 40-page limitation violates my First Amendment right to Petition the Government for Regress of Grievances. SWHTF with my Rule 22 Protest. I will post my Rule 22 Protest to my campaign blog in a couple of weeks.

    I had to get that off my chest!




     
    #13 KI5SS, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  14. Martyn

    Martyn SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Posts:
    559
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Concord, CA
    I was going to suggest Ham Radio Deluxe. It has a rather decent satellite tracker built in and a nice interface for spotting upcoming passes of your favorite satellites. Automatic downloading of kepler elements too so everything stays current.

    Many people use the Yaesu az/el mounts for their antennas. These are several hundred dollars each. I think it's a great idea to build the hardware, but yes, use the common software protocols and you've cut your work by half, unless you like writing your own control software!

    Most amateur satellite work is 2m and 70cm so you want yagi antennas, not dishes.

    Although an az/el mount on a dish will be fun to see what you can receive from other LEO satellites, such as military birds. If you throw up a 2.4m dish, you can start to think about 1.2GHz EME too!

    Martyn/KJ6SDF
     
    Titanium likes this.
  15. KE4EST

    KE4EST SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU!

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Posts:
    23,880
    Likes Received:
    4,190
    Location:
    EM75xb
    Sorry but if you want to further discuss politics you will need to take it to the PIT. We have a place for PUB members called the PIT where you are free to discuss politics all day long. :)
     

Separate names with a comma.

More...